Developer Diary, Part XXVI

[FuriousMeow]

Developing for OR, or TrackIr, or those silly peripherals - HOTAS I think they are called by the group of few gamers that use them - doesn't take away from development of "aircraft." Totally different people doing the modelling, FM and DM of those. That's also three different people handling each of those.

Edited August 2, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Chivas, you waiting for the consumer version?

[Uufflakke]

Are you guys sure you really really  want to play Bos with Oculus Rift?!?

 

Look at this guy when doing a virtual rollercoaster ride.

Imagine what happens during  a dogfight, a hammerhead, an Immelman, sharp turns... 

 

http://youtu.be/GoQ0OXJCbaE

 

 

This bloke needs some assistance too.

 

http://youtu.be/kfNIjgML-oQ

Edited August 2, 2013 by Uufflakke

[Art-J]

Whether OR is really going to be as good gimmick in flight sims as its designers want us to believe, that remains to be seen. I'm absolutely sure however, that when the first customer version hit the shelves, the articles on the thing will be all over the PC gaming media. Being one of the officially supported games will certainly give Il-2 some useful publicity then!

 

You just can't skip support of fancy gadgets nowadays if you want to be considered serious contender in the biz, whether the support makes any sense or not.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Art-J

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

This is looking to be very good...indeed...

[leitmotiv]

Are you guys sure you really really  want to play Bos with Oculus Rift?!?

 

Look at this guy when doing a virtual rollercoaster ride.

Imagine what happens during  a dogfight, a hammerhead, an Immelman, sharp turns... 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoQ0OXJCbaE

 

 

This bloke needs some assistance too.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfNIjgML-oQ

 

That only shows how good felling you get of movment when you use it, dont know about you but im usealy siting down when im playing RoF or IL2

 

look at this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BUZaE52hAo

[Heywooood]

as long as I dont have to use OR I dont care if they implement it or not -

[JG27_Chivas]

Chivas, you waiting for the consumer version?

 

 

I don't see much point in spending three hundred dollars now for a developers kit, when the consumer version will be far better in almost every aspect.  The consumer version should be lighter, much higher resolution, maybe even wider FOV, lower latency 6DOF, etc.

[Dutch]

What you've never had, you never miss. So the saying goes, but once this thing is useable without vomiting, it's going to make a 65 inch screen look pathetic. i want one. Without the vomit.

[Heywooood]

I want one...the size of wrap around shades - same weight..same size ...like a pair of really nice Vuarnets

 

until then I dont want one

Edited August 2, 2013 by Heywooood

[JG27_Chivas]

The most important thing is Loft has seen the OR in action and wants to have it implemented for the press at the European Game Show in the coming weeks.

[mazex]

Well, even though I love gadgets and OR looks cool I think one thing that will make it rather "clunky" for simming or other serious games is the fact that you can't really use the keyboard while you use it as you can't see your desk/hands? Sure, I don't look at the keyboard writing this but that is with a "two hand typing" position of my hands. It's another thing if you have one hand on the stick and one of the throttle and want a quick tap on a key to extend the dive break, adjust the bombing sight etc?

 

I read a review some months ago of someone trying it with just that comment regarding using it for flight sims or other complex games that requires a number of keys to be used...

Edited August 2, 2013 by mazex

[OneEyedBob]

 ^{Lookin' pretty schwanky!}

 

^{Wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that!}

 

^{I don't suppose OR works for people with only one eye hmmm?}

[JG27_Chivas]

Well, even though I love gadgets and OR looks cool I think one thing that will make it rather "clunky" for simming or other serious games is the fact that you can't really use the keyboard while you use it as you can't see your desk/hands? Sure, I don't look at the keyboard writing this but that is with a "two hand typing" position of my hands. It's another thing if you have one hand on the stick and one of the throttle and want a quick tap on a key to extend the dive break, adjust the bombing sight etc?

 

I read a review some months ago of someone trying it with just that comment regarding using it for flight sims or other complex games that requires a number of keys to be used...

 

 

It will be a problem for many users, but clickable cockpits would solve the problem for some.  Personally, I don't particularly like or use clickable cockpits, and prefer everything programmed to my Hotas as I don't need to look at my Hotas to find every function, and rarely if ever used the keyboard.  That said, I took typing in highschool to meet more chics, the chic thing never really worked out, but the typing sure did when computers came to the market.

 ^{Lookin' pretty schwanky!}

 

^{Wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that!}

 

^{I don't suppose OR works for people with only one eye hmmm?}

The only thing that wouldn't work for you is the 3D effect   You'd still have far more immersion with the 3/6DOF and wide FOV, than with a monitor.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Chivas

[mazex]

Found this video of some guy trying War Thunder that obviously already has OR support:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BUZaE52hAo

 

He seems rather exited about it but as can bee seen in the video he hardly finds his hotas setup with the OR on, so if you don't have all keys mapped to that hotas you will be in deep trouble? And those typing lessons in high school will only help when you already have your hands on the keyboard. They won't help you find it "blindfolded"

 

And like he says - it's "a cool thing to try out", but the resolution seems way to bad... He talks about that it feels like an old CRT and he can only see stuff that is up to 1000 feet or so... Will be tough to spot that pixel sized He-111 down low trying to sneak in low over the Don then I guess

 

I've read a lot of others complaining about head ache, sickness etc so I guess I will keep my trusty TrackIR running until they get 4k displays in OR v3 or so

[71st_AH_Hooves]

I have a Rift so Ill share my expereiences

 

1.  Naseau-  it was a factor......at first, after about 10 sessions of 10 mins or so it went away and I now feel no more sick than I do looking at my screen even when yanking and banking.

 

2. Keyboard-  I had to map some additional fucntions to keys as it is hard to see the keyboard (you can peek througha small gap at teh bottom but its not ideal)  Once remapped, I had no more issues.  If I need Full awareness out of the OR I simply lifted it up on my head.  No big deal.

 

3. Clunkiness- the only problem with "Clunkiness" was my headset falling off as I was yanking and banking.  So I simply lossed the OR straps and put it OVER my head set.  Now everythign stays in place rather well

 

4.  Pixles - this is by far the most limiting factor for the rift right now in its DEV kit form.  I dont give it to much attention as they have already announced the HD Rift for the future, but att it make dogfighting hard.  In War Thunder I crancked up the sharpness so everythign has a distinct edge but you cant read insignia's or see wing marking unless you are damn near trading paint with another aircraft.

 

5. Immersion -  OFF THE F#$*@!  CHARTS!!!   NEver have I felt so much like I was sitting THERE!!!  you look to your left and right and there are a pair of big beautiful real sized wings you want to walk out onto.  Flying formation is terrifyingly cool, and the sense of altitude and motion is incredible. 

 

6. Over all Impression -  Ground breaking MUST have (for an immersion lover), but wait to get the HD Rift for much better results.  That being said the DEV kit is 300 bones and super fun to try, maybe pick one up just to try it out and then sel on ebay. 

Edited August 3, 2013 by Hooves

[OneEyedBob]

Thanks Chivas and Hooves for the insight,

 

Other 3d devices I've tried I see blurry red and green images; if it is clear and fills my FOV, then yes it would be very immersive =)

 

Hmmm....I wonder if I can buy a monocular version for 1/2 price

Edited August 3, 2013 by OneEyedBob

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Ok I just Tried WAR THUNDER with one eye closed.  Its still neat with the tracking but obviously the 3d is gone.  But the fact that you have to look all the way around you to see the plane is VERY immersive non the less.

[JG27_Chivas]

Found this video of some guy trying War Thunder that obviously already has OR support:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BUZaE52hAo

 

He seems rather exited about it but as can bee seen in the video he hardly finds his hotas setup with the OR on, so if you don't have all keys mapped to that hotas you will be in deep trouble? And those typing lessons in high school will only help when you already have your hands on the keyboard. They won't help you find it "blindfolded"

 

And like he says - it's "a cool thing to try out", but the resolution seems way to bad... He talks about that it feels like an old CRT and he can only see stuff that is up to 1000 feet or so... Will be tough to spot that pixel sized He-111 down low trying to sneak in low over the Don then I guess

 

I've read a lot of others complaining about head ache, sickness etc so I guess I will keep my trusty TrackIR running until they get 4k displays in OR v3 or so

  Its quite simple really, if the immersion level is as high as all the reviewers and user indicate, people will find work arounds for any issues they may have.   Just as Hooves is doing.   I love my Track IR, but will drop it without a second thought.  It will be interesting to see what resolution the first consumer version will have.  I can't see it being any less than 1920x1080. and with the 4K units now hitting the market, the consumer version resolution could go higher.   I think the only real drawback for the OR is the need for a high end video card to drive the unit at 60fps, aswell as running complex combat flight sims. 

Thanks Chivas and Hooves for the insight,

 

Other 3d devices I've tried I see blurry red and green images; if it is clear and fills my FOV, then yes it would be very immersive =)

 

Hmmm....I wonder if I can buy a monocular version for 1/2 price

I think the OR works different than 3D TV's.  It works much like our eyes work with a separate image for each eye rather than tricking the eye with glasses and one screen.

[pilotpierre]

Looking extremely good development team - excellent work and great on keeping us panting pups updated.

[dburne]

Well for me, I will be staying with Track IR5 for quite a while - unless version 6 comes out. I will be watching with interest on what some of you early adopters say as it progresses.

I will stay on the sidelines on this OR thing and wait and see how it develops down the road, when it is more of a prime time thing.

 

Heck, I have used Track IR for many years, but even with it I did not get my first one until the Track IR 3 was out.

[Bf-110]

Impressive!

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Well for me, I will be staying with Track IR5 for quite a while - unless version 6 comes out. I will be watching with interest on what some of you early adopters say as it progresses.

I will stay on the sidelines on this OR thing and wait and see how it develops down the road, when it is more of a prime time thing.

 

Heck, I have used Track IR for many years, but even with it I did not get my first one until the Track IR 3 was out.

 

At this point I the development I would say you have the exact right attitude. Its cool but it just needs the high res to be "there" until then track ir is still the king. But the king better be looking over his shoulder.........or slightly left...... tee hee.

[Bearcat]

Well for me, I will be staying with Track IR5 for quite a while - unless version 6 comes out. I will be watching with interest on what some of you early adopters say as it progresses.

I will stay on the sidelines on this OR thing and wait and see how it develops down the road, when it is more of a prime time thing.

 

Heck, I have used Track IR for many years, but even with it I did not get my first one until the Track IR 3 was out.

This is my train of thought as well. In fact I had a TIR 1 and sent it back. It made me nauseous. A few years later I got a TIR 2 which I learned to use better and only went to a 4 because of 6DoF. Now I don't fly without TIR. I will wait a it because at the moment TIR does what I need.

[Tektolnes]

Ok I just Tried WAR THUNDER with one eye closed.  Its still neat with the tracking but obviously the 3d is gone.  But the fact that you have to look all the way around you to see the plane is VERY immersive non the less.

Does it have movement scaling like track ir or do is it 1-1 tracking only? While 1-1 is immersive I'd imagine a lot of simmers might get tired of flying looking over their shoulder constantly.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

At the moment it s 1 to 1. But a little trick I did was to move the player view to the right or left and look the rest of the way. Kinda of like if you could swivel your chair while seated I the cockpit. Thats in War thunder. I haven't figured out a better way for RoF yet.

[BMW801]

I don't have track IR but was thinking of getting it for this new release. For those of you who have one, if you were in my position, would you go ahead and buy track IR and wait for OR to be refined, or would you just wait for the OR?

[71st_AH_Hooves]

I would buy a track IR.  The Refined OR will be at least a year out, and Track IR is usable with so little set up, or acclamation time.  Track IR is safe bet.  Thats coming from someone who owns a Rift     But man if you can swing it when the OR is ready, dude ther e is NOTHING Like it. 

 

I gotta be honest, I cant game as long in the OR as I can with track IR, but time in the OR is an EXPERIENCE not just a gaming session.  but I have to look past all its current short comings that make casual use nearly impossible.

[BMW801]

Thank you, sir!

[mazex]

I gotta be honest, I cant game as long in the OR as I can with track IR, but time in the OR is an EXPERIENCE not just a gaming session.  but I have to look past all its current short comings that make casual use nearly impossible.

 

Thanks for sharing some first hand impressions!

 

Let's hope that OR v 1.0 becomes enough of a success so that they can continue developing the product as it really sounds cool. In a couple of years when small displays have become a lot better thanks to the smartphone development pressure I guess that we will also have GPU:s that can handle the load to drive mini-4K displays with 800 DPI or so!

 

Lets look in the crystal ball... Maybe OR 4K (v3) will be out in 2016 when the new 777 version of IL2 has reached version 4.0 or so with some 1943-45 Eastern front stuff in v 2.0, a Western front theater 1943-45 in v 3.0 and some early war Pacific stuff in version 4.0... And 100+ flyable aircraft Mmm... 

[Bearcat]

I don't have track IR but was thinking of getting it for this new release. For those of you who have one, if you were in my position, would you go ahead and buy track IR and wait for OR to be refined, or would you just wait for the OR?

 

This.......

 

I would buy a track IR.  The Refined OR will be at least a year out, and Track IR is usable with so little set up, or acclamation time.  Track IR is safe bet.  Thats coming from someone who owns a Rift     But man if you can swing it when the OR is ready, dude ther e is NOTHING Like it. 

 

I gotta be honest, I cant game as long in the OR as I can with track IR, but time in the OR is an EXPERIENCE not just a gaming session.  but I have to look past all its current short comings that make casual use nearly impossible.

 

Definitely.. OR sounds fantastic.. and it looks extremely promising.. but for my simming needs I will be sticking with TIR for the duration.. It meets my needs much better ATM.. TIR 4 vs TIR 5 Comparison I originall owned a TIR 1 which I returned.. Then a few years later I got a TIR 2 and about 3 weeks later TIR 3 came out with 6DoF.. When FSX was released I got a TIR 4.. and have been using it since.. I like it. I have been thinking of upgrading to a 5 but at the moment I see no need.. but TIR adds a level of immersion to simming thsat you don't really realize until you get one and use it for about a week.. Even your initial impressions will be boosted.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Im going to wait for the consumer version and then read reviews on how it fairs with BOS.

[Heywooood]

uuuffff...I might break down and finally get a TiR setup - but scuba goggles for a flight sim - negatory

 

I don't care if after all the barfing it IS an omg moment...slaving your eyes to a rolling environment while your inner ear is telling you that you are in a chair in your den or whatever

is bad enough - but subjecting family members and friends to the marriage ending display of grampa sitting there oblivious to his surroundings for hours on end, so totally absorbed in

his own artificial world that.....errm well - ok so thats already happening...f'sakes

 

my point is -

[BMW801]

Not to mention the bladder test of someone sneaking up on you and tapping you on the shoulder while you are absorbed in the sim with the goggles on

[Heywooood]

yeah - bladder test....not the other test

[BMW801]

I'll have to remember not to wear my white underwear

[Bearcat]

uuuffff...I might break down and finally get a TiR setup - but scuba goggles for a flight sim - negatory

 

I don't care if after all the barfing it IS an omg moment...slaving your eyes to a rolling environment while your inner ear is telling you that you are in a chair in your den or whatever

is bad enough - but subjecting family members and friends to the marriage ending display of grampa sitting there oblivious to his surroundings for hours on end, so totally absorbed in

his own artificial world that.....errm well - ok so thats already happening...f'sakes

 

my point is -

Do it Heywood.. You will not be sorry. Give it about a good 6 or 7 hours of flying time to really get to a profile you like.. Learn the SW .. but it is well worth t.. TIR 4 is $100 TIR 5 is $150.. 4 does the job for me very nicely.. The only reason I may upgrade to 5 if I have some spare cash is that the resolution is even better and the newer SW will work better with 5. I will see how BoS does with 4..

 

Not to mention the bladder test of someone sneaking up on you and tapping you on the shoulder while you are absorbed in the sim with the goggles on

That is one reason why I do not use headphones.. can you imagine habving OR and headphones..

[Feathered_IV]

I always hated it when people kept relentlessly banging on about how much better things were with the track ir.  Then I bought one.

Heywood, I'm sorry to be one of those guys too, but I really must admit it makes things so much better.  Do look into getting one. 

[Heywooood]

if BoS (and your input along with BC's) doesn't get me to buy it -  nothing will 

alright - consider me absorbed into the collective

[dburne]

I always hated it when people kept relentlessly banging on about how much better things were with the track ir.  Then I bought one.

Heywood, I'm sorry to be one of those guys too, but I really must admit it makes things so much better.  Do look into getting one. 

 

Absolutely, it is a huge leap forward in immersion with any flight sim.

I could never go back to using a POV hat to pan my view.

 

The majority of folks that I have seen get a Track IR over the years, have no regret and feel the same way. There are of course always a few that did not really like it, could not get used to it, etc - but really those are very much in the minority.