Need Advice Regarding Hidden Enemies

[chris455]

Hello Gents,

 

Not at all new to IL2 but I am very new to Tank Crew. Loving the sim, but the learning curve is a bit steep in some areas. I have two primary questions I would like to pose to the group to hopefully help get me up to speed more quickly:

 

1. On the Prokhorovka map, detailed area, there are hidden enemies that take me under fire (both automatic fire and what seems to be anti-tank artillery, caliber unknown) and invariably destroy me before I can even detect them. These are invariably hidden in the forested areas, and although I try to spot them with binoculars, careful reconnoitering, and "reconnaissance by fire", I almost always am killed before I detect them and am able to direct accurate fire on them. How the heck do you deal with these hidden enemies?

2. Tank crew is a lot of fun and I am really enjoying the change of pace. 777 seems to have provided the "major players" on the Eastern front (T-34s, Sherman, KV) but there is so much more that could be done with this sim. However, perusing the forums, it seems almost as though Tank Crew is at a developmental "dead end" and will not be further refined given the manpower and budget that will be needed for projects like Korea, etc. Please tell me I am wrong here and that someday we may see a sequel or even a more fully fleshed out version of the existing game.

 

Appreciate any helpful answers,

Happy Tanking! Chris

 

[MajorMagee]

Yes, the stalking, and being stalked is what makes this a reasonably realistic armored vehicle combat experience. It can be frustrating, but worth it when you find a way to fight and win. Your tactics are on the right track. Always keep a protected escape path in mind when the shooting starts. Watch for visual cues, like near misses, and smoke from their shots. Learn where they probably will be. Don't stop moving, unless you are hull down or out of range. Lather, rinse, repeat (learn from being killed, and try the mission again).

 

Unfortunately, it seems that Tank Crew is all that it will ever be. It's a shame that they never understood what incredibly little crumbs they could have given us to add to the experience. For example we have US and Brit AI infantry for targets, but they were unwilling to give us the same for German and Soviet Infantry because they only saw them as props for the Normandy Beach setting. They just couldn't be convinced that it would add immeasurably to every Tank combat setting even if they were dumb and not much of a threat. Take a look in the Mods section of this sub-forum, and you will find several nice enhancements for Tank Crew.

[GasTeddy]

There are quite some miraculous AI guns in IL-2, at least in Russian side.

[chris455]

27 minutes ago, GasTeddy said:

There are quite some miraculous AI guns in IL-2, at least in Russian side.

I am beginning to think this may be my problem............................

But the weapons that are killing me are German.

It seems the AI AT artillery may have special powers.....................

[GenMarkof007]

S! @chris455

The AT guns and tanks AI are tough and deadly...
Also, many tankers playing SP missions try to stay far from any forest or ambush area since the AI can see through the forest and trees! 
But I did try a few SP missions (available on the TC Forum), and I must say that the more you play those missions, the more you know how to move around specific areas.

 

About the IL-2 Tank Crew game... for now, I don`t think that they will create more tanks or modules for it.
But with a great TC community and many new TC events, missions and MP servers... you still have many more hours playing it.
Also, with new maps coming soon (like the Finland map)... I think that many mission creators will try to make new missions or campaigns for Tank Crew.

 

Cheers,
GenMarkof007  

 

[GasTeddy]

12 hours ago, GenMarkof007 said:

S! @chris455

The AT guns and tanks AI are tough and deadly...
Also, many tankers playing SP missions try to stay far from any forest or ambush area since the AI can see through the forest and trees! 
But I did try a few SP missions (available on the TC Forum), and I must say that the more you play those missions, the more you know how to move around specific areas.

 

About the IL-2 Tank Crew game... for now, I don`t think that they will create more tanks or modules for it.
But with a great TC community and many new TC events, missions and MP servers... you still have many more hours playing it.
Also, with new maps coming soon (like the Finland map)... I think that many mission creators will try to make new missions or campaigns for Tank Crew.

 

Cheers,
GenMarkof007  

 

 

That's what bugs me, the unrealism of those guns. Situations I described in my previous post happen bit too often. In WW2, only guns which could shoot direct fire without visual contact were radar guided AA guns, and even they were not capable of doing it against land targets. Heavy artillery with spotter is of course different story.

 

I hope Finnish map will have multiplayer online some day. I will ask to have tank spawn at our summer house or in my grandfathers old farm. The barn and cowhouse can easily hide some panzers and food cellar can hold big amounts of beer and bratwurst. Everyone can bring his own mustards.

 

What comes to A & S server, moving flags to new positions now and then might have refreshing effect. And adding bit more realism for AIs. Otherwise, it's ok. I do not like those ones having icons as I do not recall any WW2 history mentioning such things IRL...    

 

[moustache]

21 hours ago, chris455 said:

I am beginning to think this may be my problem............................

But the weapons that are killing me are German.

It seems the AI AT artillery may have special powers.....................

it's not so much superpowers as mainly bugs: since the appearance of tank crew, the AI is capable of spotting your tank through objects, and also of shooting through objects... there is no point in reporting these bugs, the team knows them, but no correction has been made... it is even sometimes done "voluntarily"...

[kraut1]

On 11/16/2024 at 4:21 PM, moustache said:

it's not so much superpowers as mainly bugs: since the appearance of tank crew, the AI is capable of spotting your tank through objects, and also of shooting through objects... there is no point in reporting these bugs, the team knows them, but no correction has been made... it is even sometimes done "voluntarily"...

Concerning the problem of hidden enemies:

1.) Either By installing

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/90062-air-strike-for-tc-v01/

into a SP Career mission we could use Air Support to check unknown areas. This is already working and shown in the Demo video.

(in the current german version the strike flights are maybe to powerful, but they can be adapted as required and adapted for other nations easily)

 

2.) Or By using the default flight sim artillery Flash Script we could shell to be occupied areas with artillery / by war ships before advancing. (generally tested)

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/89987-artillery-strike-for-sp-missions-is-this-required-for-tc-demo-video/

 

3.) Or By using the default flight sim artillery Flash Script for commanding AI reconnaissance units (Bren Gun Carrier, SdKfz222,...) we could try do check unknown areas before we proceed with the main battle tanks. (tested only 20%)

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/90107-column-of-different-vehicles/

 

The either / or because the dafault artillery spotting flash script can be used only for 1 purpose / per mission.

[GasTeddy]

On 12/10/2024 at 10:19 AM, kraut1 said:

Concerning the problem of hidden enemies:

1.) Either By installing

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/90062-air-strike-for-tc-v01/

into a SP Career mission we could use Air Support to check unknown areas. This is already working and shown in the Demo video.

(in the current german version the strike flights are maybe to powerful, but they can be adapted as required and adapted for other nations easily)

 

2.) Or By using the default flight sim artillery Flash Script we could shell to be occupied areas with artillery / by war ships before advancing. (generally tested)

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/89987-artillery-strike-for-sp-missions-is-this-required-for-tc-demo-video/

 

3.) Or By using the default flight sim artillery Flash Script for commanding AI reconnaissance units (Bren Gun Carrier, SdKfz222,...) we could try do check unknown areas before we proceed with the main battle tanks. (tested only 20%)

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/90107-column-of-different-vehicles/

 

The either / or because the dafault artillery spotting flash script can be used only for 1 purpose / per mission.

 

Destroying miracle guns before tanks roll to combat area solves part of the problem, but it is not what I mean. Miracle guns do not belong to a game which claims to be realistic simulation of WW2.

 

Was it multiplayer, scripted, single or even offline, no antitank gun, flak or field cannon should be able to shoot tanks through objects, thick forest, over hilltop without visual contact or, as some do, in a fire rate of shot per second. It's überarcade and belongs to arcade console noob games.

Edited January 5 by GasTeddy

[kraut1]

On 1/5/2025 at 8:08 PM, GasTeddy said:

 

Destroying miracle guns before tanks roll to combat area solves part of the problem, but it is not what I mean. Miracle guns do not belong to a game which claims to be realistic simulation of WW2.

 

Was it multiplayer, scripted, single or even offline, no antitank gun, flak or field cannon should be able to shoot tanks through objects, thick forest, over hilltop without visual contact or, as some do, in a fire rate of shot per second. It's überarcade and belongs to arcade console noob games.

I understand, these are really serious problems.

And I have observed that even average AI pilots are able to drop bombs with extemely high accuracy on small ground targets like tanks, trucks and artillery.

Does anybody has tried to create a realism mod by modding the ammo, the bots and the guns?

[kraut1]

@GasTeddy You have mentioned the leathal bouncing ricochetting enemy shells: "and thick forest, with a shell bouncing from the ground, naturally not exploding then but hitting my tank. " This effect could maybe modified by these ammo parameters:

shell_rus_76_ap.txt:

MaxRedirections = 3        //максимальное кол-во рикошетов = maximum number of ricochets
RedirectedLifeTime = 4.0    //время жизни после первого рикошета = life time after first ricochet

 

This is only a small example what could be optimized with a realism mod.

Of course some serious issues will stay but I think at least some of the immersion killers could be eliminated.

 

[GasTeddy]

^   I really hope this adjustment could be done in every multiplayer server. Those are only ones I play and I like realism in game. Rather simulation than WT or WoT style arcade.