Dev Blog #365: Karelia and Odessa Map Updates

[ITAF_Rani]

4 minutes ago, SqueakyS said:

Ju 87 D-5 is also confirmed.

Sure ?

Didn' t see nothing..

[SqueakyS]

I think it was on the last dev talk video. LukeFF confirmed it on discord.

[ITAF_Rani]

Ok thanks....so we can start to fill the slots..

 

Possible 8 planes could be:

 

 

I 153 ,  ( B.Buffalo?),( Fiat G50?),( Curtiss P36 ?)

 

Ju 87D5

 

YAK3, La 7,  ( Bf 109 G10?)

Edited September 22, 2024 by ITAF_Rani

[Juri_JS]

9 minutes ago, ITAF_Rani said:

Ok thanks....so we can start to fill the slots..

 

Possible 8 planes could be:

 

 

I 153 ,  ( B.Buffalo?),( Fiat G50?),( Curtiss P36 ?)

 

Ju 87D5

 

YAK3, La 7,  ( Bf 109 G10?)

If I remember correctly early Yak-1 and LaGG-3 as well as late Il-2 were mentioned in a Russian developer video a while ago.

[ITAF_Rani]

5 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

If I remember correctly early Yak-1 and LaGG-3 as well as late Il-2 were mentioned in a Russian developer video a while ago.

Could be possible 8 planes + 2 collectors?

 

 

[SqueakyS]

They have stuck with a symetrical planesets so far so there is only room for one of the three USSR planes. I hope the Bristol Blenheim makes it in. Blenheim, Buffalo/hawk, Ju 87 D5 and either a Westland Lysander or VL Myrsky II for the late war aircraft.

[sevenless]

12 minutes ago, SqueakyS said:

They have stuck with a symetrical planesets so far so there is only room for one of the three USSR planes. I hope the Bristol Blenheim makes it in. Blenheim, Buffalo/hawk, Ju 87 D5 and either a Westland Lysander or VL Myrsky II for the late war aircraft.

 

Dont think so. Dan mentioned once they will only do planes which are modifications of already existing ones. So early Yak and Lagg are highly likely.

[LukeFF]

30 minutes ago, ITAF_Rani said:

Could be possible 8 planes + 2 collectors?

 

No, just eight planes

[Aurora_Stealth]

One subject I just want to briefly highlight again with regards to this upcoming module, specifically the 1944 scenarios. Sorry to sound like a broken record.

 

Both the Yak 3 and La7 (plus La5FN) are extremely potent fighters low down when compared to the variants of Bf 109 G-6 which would have been the most common opposition through 1944.

 

These Soviet fighters were notoriously tough opponents in the original IL2 '1946 as they were in real life and I doubt it'll be a vastly different story here but we'll see.

 

There needs to be a correction for the standard DB605a engines (G-4, G-6, G-6 late / no MW50) to give them any chance whatsoever against this kind of opposition... considering limited availability of MW50 and I imagine it's historical supply being prioritised for western front.

 

The current emergency power limits of 1 minute have been proven to be too conservative and not historically correct for early 1943 onwards, it was 3 mins as shown on the thread of that topic.

 

If these Soviet aircraft are introduced against non MW50 powered Bf 109's it'll be an absolute rout, as these will be performing below even their own historical specifications against the very latest and highest performing Soviet ones of WW2 (until MW50 does become available, whenever that could be).

Edited September 22, 2024 by Aurora_Stealth

[Hook_Echo]

On 9/20/2024 at 1:01 PM, 352ndOscar said:

We need those Pine trees and textures in the Ardennes on the Bodenplatte map!

 

There's a couple mods that will get you close:

 

 

7 minutes ago, Aurora_Stealth said:

One subject I just want to briefly highlight again with regards to this upcoming module, specifically the 1944 scenarios. Sorry to sound like a broken record.

 

Both the Yak 3 and La 7 are extremely potent fighters low down when compared to the variants of Bf 109 G-6 which would have been the most common opposition through 1944.

 

These Soviet fighters were notoriously tough opponents in the original IL2 '1946 as they were in real life and I doubt it'll be a vastly different story here but we'll see.

 

There needs to be a correction for the standard DB605a engines (G-4, G-6, G-6 late / no MW50) to give them any chance whatsoever against this kind of opposition... considering limited availability of MW50 and I imagine it's historical supply being prioritised for western front.

 

The current emergency power limits of 1 minute have been proven to be too conservative and not historically correct for early 1943 onwards, it was 3 mins as shown on the thread of that topic.

 

If these Soviet aircraft are introduced against non MW50 powered Bf 109's it'll be an absolute rout, as these will be performing below even their own historical specifications against the very latest and highest performing Soviet ones of WW2 (until MW50 does become available, whenever that could be).

 

This was recently addressed in the Tempest turning performance thread. They said they are working on updating the 109 to 3 mins, but didn't give a release date.

[Aurora_Stealth]

7 minutes ago, Hook_Echo said:

 

There's a couple mods that will get you close:

 

 

 

This was recently addressed in the Tempest turning performance thread. They said they are working on updating the 109 to 3 mins, but didn't give a release date.

 

I saw that post - cheers. I'm just underlining what will happen if it's not corrected before release of Yak 3 and La 7.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Aurora_Stealth said:

One subject I just want to briefly highlight again with regards to this upcoming module, specifically the 1944 scenarios. Sorry to sound like a broken record.

 

Both the Yak 3 and La7 (plus La5FN) are extremely potent fighters low down when compared to the variants of Bf 109 G-6 which would have been the most common opposition through 1944.

 

These Soviet fighters were notoriously tough opponents in the original IL2 '1946 as they were in real life and I doubt it'll be a vastly different story here but we'll see.

 

There needs to be a correction for the standard DB605a engines (G-4, G-6, G-6 late / no MW50) to give them any chance whatsoever against this kind of opposition... considering limited availability of MW50 and I imagine it's historical supply being prioritised for western front.

 

The current emergency power limits of 1 minute have been proven to be too conservative and not historically correct for early 1943 onwards, it was 3 mins as shown on the thread of that topic.

 

If these Soviet aircraft are introduced against non MW50 powered Bf 109's it'll be an absolute rout, as these will be performing below even their own historical specifications against the very latest and highest performing Soviet ones of WW2 (until MW50 does become available, whenever that could be).

 

Our engineers are aware of the need to change the Bf 109 engine timers, but there is no schedule right now to make those changes. 

[LLv44_Kanttori]

8 hours ago, Chief_Mouser said:

 

Well it might have been nice if you'd let those of us who were contributing know about this. 🙄

For whatever reason of my own I wasn't going to, and probably won't, buy the map as a module from 1CGS, but I was quite happy to help a group of independent mapmakers achieve their dream. So now I've cancelled my subscription; I've probably contributed enough to buy the map already but that money was for you, to help you get it done, and I don't mind that.

It's a great map, keep up the good work, but it won't be one for me now I'm afraid.

🍻

 

KarttaKomppania's financial situation was still open in the winter and we didn't know how it would turn out, and that's why we opened the Patreon pages to secure further development without breaks. As soon as we found out that 1CGS wants to complete the map and help us populate the areas south of the Gulf of Finland in Leningrad Oblast, a big ballast dropped from our hearts. 

I announced it already in the spring on the IL-2 forum, but apparently it hasn't reached everyone. The most important thing for us is that we finish the map now, and it's also a pleasure to finish it. The amount of work that KarttaKomppania has spent on this project over the course of six years is so great that it can't really be priced any more. We old guys also had to learn the entire IL-2 Sturmovik map technology at the same time.
 

Now that we know how to make maps, this doesn't stop there. We voluntarily expand the area agreed with ICGS to a larger one, which would have been enough for them, because the northern Ladoga Karelia Winter War region and fronts are very important to us Finns. We don't get any compensation for that work other than what comes with crowdfunding, so your money has by no means been wasted. If the player community wants to continue KarttaKompania's Patreon funding in the future, then I already have a couple of very interesting (also for the players)  WWII fronts that we plan to make after this map. We need to pay at least our young architecture students and 3D modellers as scholarships as some form of compensation for their amazing buildings and work also in the future. 

[CAG_Muse]

7 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Our engineers are aware of the need to change the Bf 109 engine timers, but there is no schedule right now to make those changes. 

Make 109s great again

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

I really hope we have the option to mount a second UB machine gun on the Yak 3 at least at some point in the campaign. 

[kraut1]

12 hours ago, Aurora_Stealth said:

One subject I just want to briefly highlight again with regards to this upcoming module, specifically the 1944 scenarios. Sorry to sound like a broken record.

 

Both the Yak 3 and La7 (plus La5FN) are extremely potent fighters low down when compared to the variants of Bf 109 G-6 which would have been the most common opposition through 1944.

 

These Soviet fighters were notoriously tough opponents in the original IL2 '1946 as they were in real life and I doubt it'll be a vastly different story here but we'll see.

 

There needs to be a correction for the standard DB605a engines (G-4, G-6, G-6 late / no MW50) to give them any chance whatsoever against this kind of opposition... considering limited availability of MW50 and I imagine it's historical supply being prioritised for western front.

 

The current emergency power limits of 1 minute have been proven to be too conservative and not historically correct for early 1943 onwards, it was 3 mins as shown on the thread of that topic.

 

If these Soviet aircraft are introduced against non MW50 powered Bf 109's it'll be an absolute rout, as these will be performing below even their own historical specifications against the very latest and highest performing Soviet ones of WW2 (until MW50 does become available, whenever that could be).

-In IL2 1946: yes, especially the Yaks extremely dangerous, extremely nimble as far as I can remember.

-I expect that the Yak3 and the La7 will be available in the pilot careers in a historical correct way:

This would mean, that both types were first time used for combat missions in limited numbers in June 44.

Because of that I expect that for Odessa and for Karelia pilot careers german pilots will mostly encounter the standard 1943 russian fighters.

I did some researches for the planes used during the Courland Pocket Campaign from October44 to May45 and on this page (link by @sevenless) I found as an example the composition of fighter plane types of a russian Air Army:

https://airwarpublications.com/a-beginners-guide-to-the-soviet-air-force-over-courland/

"3.VA (3rd Air Army)
3.VA was the most powerful Soviet air army operating in the Baltic region in 1944 and 1945. Home to more than 1.000 aircraft, 3.VA had a mix of fighter, ground-attack, bomber, night bomber and reconnaissance units. It was a prominent operator of the Lend-Lease Bell P-39 Airacobra, and also had a strong Petlyakov Pe-2 bomber component....

...The Airacobras of 3.VA all served with 11.IAK (11th Fighter Corps), and other fighter units operated the Lavochkin La-5 and La-7, and Yakovlev Yak-1, Yak-7b, and Yak-9. The latter was particularly numerous in 1944 and 1945...."

Do we have tables for the Red Air Force for specific dates 1944 / 45 with fighter planes types and numbers in service?

[Luger1969]

This has great. Dev please dont hesistate to make an announcement soon.🤣

[Kapteeni]

About planes. Gloster Gladiator and Fokker DXX plus Fiat G 52 could be usefull on other fronts than Finnish too. But Brewster is the most needed. We Will see.

[Aurora_Stealth]

3 hours ago, kraut1 said:

-In IL2 1946: yes, especially the Yaks extremely dangerous, extremely nimble as far as I can remember.

-I expect that the Yak3 and the La7 will be available in the pilot careers in a historical correct way:

This would mean, that both types were first time used for combat missions in limited numbers in June 44.

Because of that I expect that for Odessa and for Karelia pilot careers german pilots will mostly encounter the standard 1943 russian fighters.

I did some researches for the planes used during the Courland Pocket Campaign from October44 to May45 and on this page (link by @sevenless) I found as an example the composition of fighter plane types of a russian Air Army:

https://airwarpublications.com/a-beginners-guide-to-the-soviet-air-force-over-courland/

"3.VA (3rd Air Army)
3.VA was the most powerful Soviet air army operating in the Baltic region in 1944 and 1945. Home to more than 1.000 aircraft, 3.VA had a mix of fighter, ground-attack, bomber, night bomber and reconnaissance units. It was a prominent operator of the Lend-Lease Bell P-39 Airacobra, and also had a strong Petlyakov Pe-2 bomber component....

...The Airacobras of 3.VA all served with 11.IAK (11th Fighter Corps), and other fighter units operated the Lavochkin La-5 and La-7, and Yakovlev Yak-1, Yak-7b, and Yak-9. The latter was particularly numerous in 1944 and 1945...."

Do we have tables for the Red Air Force for specific dates 1944 / 45 with fighter planes types and numbers in service?

 

Good info, cheers for the link!

 

Yep that's what I remember - the Yak 3 being quite formidable and nimble, the engineers took a lot of weight out of the aircraft and its aerodynamically quite clean as well and pretty fast at low altitudes. It'll be noticeably more manoeuvrable than the Spitfire(s) and a strong climb rate as well. That being said its lightweight airframe may not be particularly durable or resilient in a dive, its Vne / not to exceed speed may be somewhat limited but if its fighting at low altitudes then not the biggest deal.

 

But I take your point - operational strength of these new fighters would have taken time to build up. The same however may well apply though to the Germans with regards to MW50 usage so it could work both ways.

 

Can't answer your question unfortunately.

[Trooper117]

8 hours ago, I./JG3_Muse said:

Make 109s great again

 

With all that's going on, all the different stuff still in the mix, 109's aren't going to be great for quite a while...

[MeMeY]

18 hours ago, SqueakyS said:

They have stuck with a symetrical planesets so far so there is only room for one of the three USSR planes. I hope the Bristol Blenheim makes it in. Blenheim, Buffalo/hawk, Ju 87 D5 and either a Westland Lysander or VL Myrsky II for the late war aircraft.

The Lysander would be brilliant, it's such a unique and cool aircraft! 

[Hanu]

19 hours ago, SqueakyS said:

 

Ju 87 D-5 is also confirmed. They have said there will be 4 early. one mid and three late war planes. So far they look like this.

 

Hmmm, I hope the model does not change too much... I have created 19 historical skins of Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey's SG3 Stukas for that D-3 model... Cannot imagine the amount of work if I have to redo all of those for D-5... 😅

[kurgubigelzi]

Awesomeness.
My family from father's side is from the stolen Karelian area.

if Brewster is a paid add-on and costs 3x I will still get it.
Finnish 13mm MGs and finnish Revi clone on a light brewster. Super combo.

[JG27_Steini]

5 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 

With all that's going on, all the different stuff still in the mix, 109's aren't going to be great for quite a while...

 

109's will always be great. No matter what else happens.

[LLv44_Kanttori]

6 hours ago, Kapteeni said:

About planes. Gloster Gladiator and Fokker DXX plus Fiat G 52 could be usefull on other fronts than Finnish too. But Brewster is the most needed. We Will see.

Odota Kapteeni vielä hetki niin tähän asiaan alkaa tulla selvyyttä Facebookin suomalaisissa ryhmissä kuten Virtuaalilentäjät, Ilmailun historia ja Pienoismallit. Kerron siellä pian erittäin mielenkiintoista asiaa... 

 

Wait a little longer, Captain, and this issue will start to be clarified in Finnish Facebook groups such as Virtual Pilots, History of Aviation and Miniature Models. I will tell you something very interesting there soon...

[Avimimus]

On 9/22/2024 at 3:57 PM, SqueakyS said:

 

Ju 87 D-5 is also confirmed. They have said there will be 4 early. one mid and three late war planes. So far they look like this.

 

(Shamelessly stolen from discord):

Early war: I-153, ?, ?, ?

Mid war: Ju 87 D-5

Late war: Yak-3, La-7, ?

 

 

 

I-153, Ju-87D-5, Yak-3 confirmed

Early Yak-1, Early LaGG-3, La-7, Il-2 Late (Arrow wing) have been mentioned.

 

So that is seven... which leaves one missing...

 

Alas, most of the ones I'd want most are two-seaters or even twin-engined (Pe-3, Fi-156, Fw-189, Ju-188)... which they said is very unlikely.

 

  

5 hours ago, MeMeY said:

The Lysander would be brilliant, it's such a unique and cool aircraft! 

 

Apparently it is a bit of pain to fly though. Would be great for a Battle of France scenario though (could even include the 'beachhead defense' versions)

[Enceladus828]

4 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

Alas, most of the ones I'd want most are two-seaters or even twin-engined (Pe-3, Fi-156, Fw-189, Ju-188)... which they said is very unlikely.

The Pe-3 in general is a simple conversion from the Pe-2 so I wouldn’t say that it’s unlikely. If they can make the Ju-88C-6 (a conversion of the A-4 that requires more work than the Pe-3) then they can make the Pe-3.

[MeMeY]

35 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

Apparently it is a bit of pain to fly though. Would be great for a Battle of France scenario though (could even include the 'beachhead defense' versions)

It'd also fit into the Normandy map for some SOE work! 

Dave Hadfield has some great videos of him flying the Canadian one. I don't think he ever complained about it being a pain, but I do recall him saying that you need to set the adjustable stab fully pitch up in order to flare, and it also needs to be set properly for takeoff.

 

 

 

[Trooper117]

1 hour ago, JG27_Steini said:

109's will always be great. No matter what else happens.

 

That's good to hear... maybe it doesn't need the extra work then, all is well in GB land!

[Roland_HUNter]

Revised dmg model is on the schedule or it's not?

[Kapteeni]

1 hour ago, LLv44_Kanttori said:

Odota Kapteeni vielä hetki niin tähän asiaan alkaa tulla selvyyttä Facebookin suomalaisissa ryhmissä kuten Virtuaalilentäjät, Ilmailun historia ja Pienoismallit. Kerron siellä pian erittäin mielenkiintoista asiaa... 

 

Wait a little longer, Captain, and this issue will start to be clarified in Finnish Facebook groups such as Virtual Pilots, History of Aviation and Miniature Models. I will tell you something very interesting there soon...

Jees,Perkele!  as we say in Finland.  Odottelen!

[LukeFF]

55 minutes ago, Roland_HUNter said:

Revised dmg model is on the schedule or it's not?

 

No

[CzechTexan]

Don't forget about the P-39Q (or N) model which was popular in both regions during 1944.

 

I also have a question.  Will the IAR-80 be included in the package as a collector plane or will it remain as a stand-alone collector plane? 

[SqueakyS]

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

I-153, Ju-87D-5, Yak-3 confirmed

Early Yak-1, Early LaGG-3, La-7, Il-2 Late (Arrow wing) have been mentioned.

 

So that is seven... which leaves one missing...

 

They aren't going to do a pack with 6/7 USSR panes and 1/2 Finnish/Axis. Even if they have been talked about, it just doesn't fit their buisness model.

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

This… and upcoming chaika…. might get me back. But I think it would require the Brewster as well. 
And maybe our old project ….

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2024 by SvAF/F19_Klunk

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, CzechTexan said:

Will the IAR-80 be included in the package as a collector plane or will it remain as a stand-alone collector plane? 

 

Standalone collector

[sevenless]

6 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

I-153, Ju-87D-5, Yak-3 confirmed

Early Yak-1, Early LaGG-3, La-7, Il-2 Late (Arrow wing) have been mentioned.

 

So that is seven... which leaves one missing...

 

 

They indeed mentioned the Bf-110F2 and Fw-190A9, who knows? And they also mention that they favour easy to adapt versions of already existing designs.

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2024 by sevenless

[LukeFF]

🤔

[I/JG53_Kurtz]

I don't want to be unpleasant, I strongly hope that the missing plane is Brewster F2A, otherwise make little sense to have a finnish-soviet war map. Moreover, sadly it is quite clear that at the moment all the other finnish planes and soviet early war bombers (that were their main targets) are not considered at all, limiting a lot the completeness of the planeset, especially for winter war scenario '39-'40.

I hope that in a remote future this planeset will be considered.

[Hanu]

18 hours ago, kurgubigelzi said:

Awesomeness.
My family from father's side is from the stolen Karelian area.

if Brewster is a paid add-on and costs 3x I will still get it.
Finnish 13mm MGs and finnish Revi clone on a light brewster. Super combo.

Especially in case of Brewster, the modeling of Hurricane will be interesting (worrying, more like). Current Hurricane is not nearly as bad as I could expect from this sentence from Captain Hans Wind (most successful Brewster pilot in the world) lecture:

"The easiest one to shoot down of the enemy fighters is the Hurricane. It is totally helpless against us below 3,000 meters. It is slow and very clumsy and unmanoeuvrable. Whenever you meet a Hurricane, engage it in a turn-fight, where it is totally at our mercy. It is best to shoot this plane in the forward part of the fuselage when it almost immediately bursts into flames."

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-CaptainWindsAirCombatTacticsLecture.html

As far as I can see the current turn rate of Hurricane outperforms any other monoplane in IL-2; Spitfires, Yak's, I-16. It is also faster than Brewster will be.