6 weeks to go......

[Dagwoodyt]

29 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

 

It's like the original IL2 QMB, but very much less well featured (as it stands), but thing really could change a lot with it.

Well, if it is even minimally functional that is an advance😉
 

[Mysticpuma]

TFS have broken cover and announced they are in Alpha with Speedtree 8.2 implementation.

 

"Hello All

The addition of Speedtree 8.42 continues. 

At this point the new trees are in and have replaced the old models... but work on the shaders, (colouring) continues. 

Below are some images from the ingame Alpha, which includes trueSKY.

We expect to add the work to the VR Beta in the next month or so.

Note:  This Alpha does not include the new grasses, small rocks and other minor objects."

 

And there we have confirmation, December is not going to happen.

 

 

 

 

Does look good though, just no different than we already new and no indication that any of the flyable content, apart from the Tiffy, are even in game yet.

[BOO]

42 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

TFS have broken cover and announced they are in Alpha with Speedtree 8.2 implementation.

 

"Hello All

The addition of Speedtree 8.42 continues. 

At this point the new trees are in and have replaced the old models... but work on the shaders, (colouring) continues. 

Below are some images from the ingame Alpha, which includes trueSKY.

We expect to add the work to the VR Beta in the next month or so.

Note:  This Alpha does not include the new grasses, small rocks and other minor objects."

 

 

 

I agree - looks pretty good and clearly no TF6 in December.  Graphically, CloD is never going to be cutting edge but its was never awful and sometimes, often even,  it was better than other sims at it stood. Ultimately it was always more than the sum of it parts. I assume from the screenies both ST and TS are working as intended in 2D? 

 

More questions than answers as usual however when it comes to VR. Has the VR crash issue been identified and solved? Is SP and TS able to play nice with VR? How far away from a release of either TF6 or the VU (or both) realistically are they? Are VR and the VU still locked together? Are TF6 and VR still locked together?  None of this of course is something that will or wont see me throwing myself off a bridge but it would just be nice to know at some point. 

 

Im not one clamouring for TF6. I can take it or leave it. There was something beautfully simple about a limitied planeset. All Ive ever hoped for is a Blitz with some of the AI and com menu bugz ironed out. 

 

 

[354thFG_Leifr]

I find it very frustrating that, potentially, these new updates would be already working and usable by people if it wasn't the dogged belief that everyone is flying VR. Literally, all I've ever wanted out of Cliffs is for the product to be polished off as complete for the Channel map and presented as a tidy product that is largely without issue.

Edited October 17, 2024 by 356thFS_Leifr

[BOO]

1 hour ago, 356thFS_Leifr said:

I find it very frustrating that, potentially, these new updates would be already working and usable by people if it wasn't the dogged belief that everyone is flying VR. Literally, all I've ever wanted out of Cliffs is for the product to be polished off as complete for the Channel map and presented as a tidy product that is largely without issue.

 

+1.  Never understood why, given the limited number of coders and the demands on their time with the DLC and VU and whatever else , VR was never a sub development branch at least until something tanagble was out there. But is wasnt and here we are. 

 

Like Leifr, Im perhaps in a minority but, for me, Cliifs really needed nothing more than the Channel map and the 1940 scenario to be a little more AI convincing and less buggy coms experience in SP to be an better proposition for simmers. A few more MP maps in circulation over and above the ones that survived the Blitz transition would have helped MP. In comparision with Blitz at launch to now, TFS have made a good few positive steps in this regard but these have been lost in the noise and trumpeting of VR and the VU and almost certainly delayed by such. 

Edited October 17, 2024 by BOO

[Dagwoodyt]

Without a modernized UI, including a good QMB, better controller setup support, good comms and getting rid of those on-screen boxes CloD is never going to create a growing user community. VR cannot save CloD. VR will bring users who have a VR HMD, but they will ultimately leave again for the antiquated UI. TBH I could care less about TF 6.0. Addition of VR to existing content would provide compensation for money wasted on DW-T. I still loathe that map. Pity the folks who went through all the VR "beta" hoops only to find they were "touring" an alpha. Someday, if TFS can ever put together an actual VR/VU beta, a beta test will still need to be done. That would require more than 8-10 testers.🤔

[BladeMeister]

I have to agree that all I ever wanted from CLOD was to see it polished to one of the best CFSs ever made. The potential has always been there, but as per all other Dev teams, a la ROF, GBS and DCS, creating new content trumps actually optimizing, identifying major bugs and  fixing them to their best ability before moving to the next project. To my disappointment all of the above have done that to a major downfall. TFS is doing the same thing just as bad if not worse than some. ROF was the biggest let down at the end and TFS is now running a close second. I am not sure if I wasn't happier with 4.13 than I am now. With the roll rate bug and the AI acting very unrealistically in close quarters dogfighting I have shifted my attention to other older sims. I find it hard to believe that after all these years 2001 --> that Devs cannot see that basic sim operation, optimization and AI performance(at least for SP), read convincing AI and comms with AI, has not really been achieved. Honestly, IL2 1946, BOB II WOV and the WOFF & WOTR have some of the best fighting AI and bomber AI in all sims produced to this day, obviously IMHO.  I will leave it at this, those are the sims I always fall back to when I tire of the underwhelming game play of basically all the newer, 2013 --->, sims. Eye candy is great I love it, but eye candy alone does not carry a sim if its core elements don't work as should be expected and are glaringly neglected. Unfortunately TFS is falling into this same mediocre to underwhelming delivery of a CFS in spite of its still huge potential. I get it, volunteer team and all but still underwhelming in the last 4 years.

I encourage those on TFS to keep up the hard work and maybe encourage management to release the VU without the VR update and to fix whatever planes have incorrect role rate and the jinky close combat maneuvers of the AI, maybe rolling back to the 4.13 AI if that is possible and easier.

That's My 2 cents, but what do I know.

 

S!Blade<><

Edited October 17, 2024 by BladeMeister

[BOO]

4 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

 and getting rid of those on-screen boxes 

 What are those boxes you speak of? 

[Dagwoodyt]

28 minutes ago, BOO said:

 What are those boxes you speak of? 

Can't be important enough to explain😊

And no, I didn't mention the AI in my previous post. TFS seems ever in denial of the AI "target drone" behavior, so looks like that irritation will endure☹️

[BOO]

5 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Can't be important enough to explain😊

And no, I didn't mention the AI in my previous post. TFS seems ever in denial of the AI "target drone" behavior, so looks like that irritation will endure☹️

 

If you mean the ubiquitous grey box, they can be got rid of with a mouse click.

[Mysticpuma]

The Ai is a perpetual disappointment, that is very fair to say. The (as pointed out by @BladeMeister continual roll/spiral, the almost psychic "cross hair on target...now it magically starts it's defensive roll", the perfect use of engine power to constantly climb away, level, climb away....the Ai for Single Player is just awful.

I know the mantra from TFS has always been online focus, but the fact is, with so few players online, the only fun to be had for the majority is Single Player.

The sad facts is, CloD still is visually great, even now and especially with Speedtree and Truesky, but all it is currently is just screenshots from the team of what "can be" and the player base has evaporated during the wait.

 

I think it's time to unshackle VR, release the VU and make VR an open beta to get the info. required from a much larger crowd that is needed to fix the implementation, before there is no-one left to try it.

[Dagwoodyt]

2 minutes ago, BOO said:

 

If you mean the ubiquitous grey box, they can be got rid of with a mouse click.

Been there, done that. Just one of the issues that serve to irritate newbies.

[Dagwoodyt]

14 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

I think it's time to unshackle VR, release the VU and make VR an open beta to get the info. required from a much larger crowd that is needed to fix the implementation, before there is no-one left to try it.

Even without VR TFS could be a year(?) away from fully integrating TS and ST8/9 into the base game. Only after that's done could they conduct a real non VR beta. Of course getting folks back who joined the beta for the VR experience might be problematic. There does not seem to be an easy way out and would TFS acknowledge error?

[BENKOE]

24 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Been there, done that. Just one of the issues that serve to irritate newbies.

Hi Dagwoodyt, what is your understanding of 'newbies'?

[BOO]

8 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Been there, done that. Just one of the issues that serve to irritate newbies.

 

Perhaps but if a "newbie" cant type "Clod Gray box" into google then there is little hope.  The solution is literally the first item on the list that comes up. 

 

I cant think of any sim I've not had to google for a solution to something. I do get the point that, on the face of it,  its a simple fix that doesnt need to be an mystery. 

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

11 minutes ago, BENKOE said:

Hi Dagwoodyt, what is your understanding of 'newbies'?

anyone who buys base Blitz game

10 minutes ago, BOO said:

its a simple fix that doesnt need to be an mystery.

How many of those "simple" fixes needed in CloD together conspire to bleed new players away?🤔

Edited October 17, 2024 by Dagwoodyt

[No.54_Reddog]

Everything you all have just said, comes back to what I have harped on about repeatedly - poor project management and decision making. Until those two things are addressed, there never will be true progress IMO.

 

I see that the new alpha screens look very pretty, and indeed I have to wonder how long we could have been playing with trueSKY if it hadn't been shackled to VR and other items. 

[BOO]

11 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

anyone who buys base Blitz game

How many of those "simple" fixes needed in CloD together conspire to bleed new players away?🤔

 

Fair point

[AtomicP]

5 hours ago, 356thFS_Leifr said:

I find it very frustrating that, potentially, these new updates would be already working and usable by people if it wasn't the dogged belief that everyone is flying VR. Literally, all I've ever wanted out of Cliffs is for the product to be polished off as complete for the Channel map and presented as a tidy product that is largely without issue.

 

Another +1

 

I'd be happy with a nice polished sim as it stands. I know features are what sells but the boat is sailing away and it won't be long before it's over the horizon.

[Dagwoodyt]

12 minutes ago, AtomicP said:

 

Another +1

 

I'd be happy with a nice polished sim as it stands. I know features are what sells but the boat is sailing away and it won't be long before it's over the horizon.

Perhaps you are looking at this from a customer's POV. If I were looking at CloD development as a Team member, however, I might think it fine to spend the next 4-8 years honing my skills working on CloD in my spare time and enjoying the comradeship of a like-thinking group. Patience always!🤫

[marcost]

Agree with all of the points above. I can't quite believe that in sims I was flying 20+ years ago, the core features worked better and were more comprehensive and immersive than what we have now.  Today, we just have a parade of style over substance from the modern crop of sims - pretty graphics and poor gameplay (for SP especially).

 

I thought Cliffs was different and could & would be made great, because modders are involved.

 

Presumably, the commercial requirements/limitations that are imposed outweigh delivery of meaningful improvements for the majority of players (non-VR single players). That in itself makes no commercial sense, if the majority of the market is being subordinated to the minority's requirements. If that isn't the issue, then I also conclude (as suggested above) that it must just be a vanity project for TFS.

 

I'm getting older, I might not have another 20 years of waiting time...

[Dagwoodyt]

No real life paycheck seems to depend on completion of any TFS project. Thus time stretches endlessly before the Team as a group.😉

[Blitzen]

Slightly on and off topic: I do wonder what percentage of current CloD players are VR Beta testers and comparing that percentage to the full on largely bug free VR players at GB? Just wondering...

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

27 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

Slightly on and off topic: I do wonder what percentage of current CloD players are VR Beta testers and comparing that percentage to the full on largely bug free VR players at GB? Just wondering...

Become a VR beta tester is ridiculously over formalized, they should give free access to it so everyone could at least see it on YouTube.

[BOO]

28 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

Slightly on and off topic: I do wonder what percentage of current CloD players are VR Beta testers and comparing that percentage to the full on largely bug free VR players at GB? Just wondering...

 

Well currently even if only 1 playing is a VR user thats 20%.  The most populated server has 4 players. Out of the tens of people who signed up for VR testing its stated that fewer than 12 are actively engaged still. 

 

I have no idea how many play IL2 in VR but I imagine its more than 12. 

 

 

 

 

[Mysticpuma]

Which is why, to progress it, they need an open VR beta, at least that way they will get multiple reports to fix the crashes, rather than a few occasional enthusiasts.

[BOO]

As a public service here is a summary of the last 4 pages and last 3 months of communcation.....

 

Any news on TF6.0?

 

Were havng a poll

 

Oh. What about TF6.0?

 

I can confirm no one is getting it for free

 

Oh. And aTF6.0 rekease date?

 

Here are some trees

 

Thanks. What about TF6.0? 

 

I am happy to announce that we will be releasing.......something saying something about TF6.0 in the future....

 

Ok - so what about VR?

 

Have you seen the Lancaster? Great isnt it?

 

Yes it is. So what about VR?

 

Yes. VR.....Soooo....Have you seen the Lancaster? Great isnt it?

[Dagwoodyt]

On 10/10/2024 at 1:47 PM, DBS said:

 

Accountable in what way? You have what you paid for. IIRC Tobruk wasn't sold with the promise of VR or visual update (at least it certainly isn't in the promotional material on the steam store page), and Dieppe isn't up for pre-order.

 

As I see it, any further updates to the game are a bonus. As no pre-order has been made for Dieppe, I'm not in a position to demand it releases on schedule, or at all.

 

On 10/11/2024 at 12:43 AM, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

They don't have any 'obligation' and they don't owe you anything, unless you've pre-paid for something ?

Remember this mindset.🤔
 

[Zooropa_Fly]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Remember this mindset.🤔

 

Yes, what about it ?

 

 

8 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

How many of those "simple" fixes needed in CloD together conspire to bleed new players away?🤔

 

I'm not sure the thing about the on-screen boxes is that relevant, and if newbies in general aren't prepared for the long set-up and learning curves they're not lasting long anyway.

As mentioned previously I've not flown CloD for ages - partly because I'd have to set all the controls again and I can't be a**e* !

It's a big job, so dealing with each sims set up quirks is just a small part of it all, and things usually only need done once.

Granted, there are a few things could be better for the player experience.

 

If I get the controls done I must buy Tobruk, be nice to fly over the location where I saw an eclipse in 2005 - top left corner of Egypt (Saloum).

But I digress.. not flown much of anything for a while.

 

S!

[No.54_Reddog]

2 hours ago, BOO said:

As a public service here is a summary of the last 4 pages and last 3 months of communcation.....

 

Any news on TF6.0?

 

Were havng a poll

 

Oh. What about TF6.0?

 

I can confirm no one is getting it for free

 

Oh. And aTF6.0 rekease date?

 

Here are some trees

 

Thanks. What about TF6.0? 

 

I am happy to announce that we will be releasing.......something saying something about TF6.0 in the future....

 

Ok - so what about VR?

 

Have you seen the Lancaster? Great isnt it?

 

Yes it is. So what about VR?

 

Yes. VR.....Soooo....Have you seen the Lancaster? Great isnt it?

 

Can you recap the last 4 years in the same style please, I feel like I must have missed something 😉

[DBS]

11 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

 

Remember this mindset.🤔
 

 

I stand by what I said. Considering you've quoted it about 5 times to little or no response it seems you alone were triggered by it. Every time I drop by this forum it's usually you bemoaning a lack of progress/communication. At this point I wonder if you even want to play the update if/when it releases? Or are you just here to rant about TFS?

 

I can understand the frustration. But the fact is if TFS weren't working on this game it would have died a death a looooong time ago. You either have the option of enjoying the game as it is, or waiting until further updates come out, which I repeat - you are not entitled to.

[marcost]

If TFS weren't working on it then the code might have been released and the game might then have been in a very different place.

 

This scenario is just as much a 'fact'.

[Avimimus]

Let's avoid getting personal.

 

But three observations I think everyone need to consider:

 

1) Some commercial developers have similar (or longer) timeline slips (e.g. DCS has had some features or aircraft slip by more than a decade).

 

2) If Team Fusion doesn't give a timeline some people on the forum say it is 'dead' or 'vaporware'. If they do give a timeline some people on the forum will say 'they never meet their timelines'. It is a no-win situation for them.

 

3) These are complex projects and complaining will not get them done faster. I'm not sure what people think the point is? Given how the code is structured it is easier for them to do larger and less frequent releases (more like older sims than the modular approach taken by Great Battles and DCS)... so they can't dramatically change their strategy without even more delays... I don't see how any of this conversation can actually contribute to success. We aren't speeding things up by complaining.

 

If you want to speed things up you can always apply to join their team. If you disagree with how things are being done you can always try to set up your own company and create your own simulator. When their product is released (in whatever length of time) you can decide whether or not you want to buy it.