IL-2 4th Generation Future Titles

[BraveSirRobin]

38 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

 

If WW1 beyond France is not of your interest then that's fine but if you cannot let others express their opinions of places that would be appealing to players (scenery, aircraft used, opportunities) without being rude to them then perhaps it's best to stay out of it. 

‘I’m not stopping anyone from expressing their opinions about anything.  I’m just telling you why WW1 Italy is extremely unlikely.  If you want to advocate for more WW1 content, try for more planes for the Western front.  It’s far more realistic.

[Enceladus828]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

‘I’m not stopping anyone from expressing their opinions about anything.  I’m just telling you why WW1 Italy is extremely unlikely.  If you want to advocate for more WW1 content, try for more planes for the Western front.  It’s far more realistic.

There will be no more planes added to FC except for maybe 1 or 2 at most, nor will a WW1 flight sim in the Korea engine start with the Western Front unless it takes place in 1914-15. We can see the Hanriot HD. 1, SPAD VII, SPAD XIII, Nieuport 11, Nieuport 17, Ansaldo SVA and the Ca. 3 for the Italian side.  

[LukeFF]

29 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

There will be no more planes added to FC except for maybe 1 or 2 at most, nor will a WW1 flight sim in the Korea engine start with the Western Front unless it takes place in 1914-15.

 

Neither of these things are accurate. After Vol. 4 for FC is released, that is all that is planned for WWI right now in either the GB or the upcoming IL-2 Series engine.

[l_commando]

I too am frustrated with historical sims - and video games in general - constantly retreading the same ground over and over again. With few precious exceptions, most World War II video games have left Northwest Europe '44-'45 and I find that incredibly dull. That said, I acknowledge that I am a minority and accept the fact that most people, including so-called "history buffs," aren't as into history as they claim they are.

[ST_Catchov]

7 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

They’re not interested in some obscure skirmishes in the mountains of Italy in WW1.

 

Lol you mean, you're not interested. Extrapolating 'they're' into 'your' view is a long bow to draw. Get it right in future son. Your opinion, not theirs.

[BraveSirRobin]

41 minutes ago, ST_Catchov said:

 

Lol you mean, you're not interested. Extrapolating 'they're' into 'your' view is a long bow to draw. Get it right in future son. Your opinion, not theirs.

No, I mean “they”, as in, the overwhelming majority of people who might buy another iteration of this game.  Most of “they” aren’t even aware that WW1 battles were fought in the mountains of Italy.  For the overwhelming majority of “they”, WW1 air combat is the Western front.  That is what they want.  They want Camels.  They want Fokkers.  They want Albies.  They buy those aircraft.  Fly them in a quick mission for a few hours.  Then wait for the next aircraft.  They are the majority and they are not hard core flight simmers.  They are not you or me.
 

I’m not the one projecting my opinions onto other people.  You are, son.

Edited November 16, 2024 by BraveSirRobin

[Enceladus828]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

No, I mean “they”, as in, the overwhelming majority of people who might buy another iteration of this game.  Most of “they” aren’t even aware that WW1 battles were fought in the mountains of Italy.  For the overwhelming majority of “they”, WW1 air combat is the Western front.  That is what they want.  They want Camels.  They want Fokkers.  They want Albies.  They buy those aircraft.

In that sense it makes no sense for the devs to do Korea because you know, it's The Forgotten War. Even I don't know that much about the Korean War, but lo and behold it's where they are going to next.

 

P.S. the Albies and Fokkers (you didn't specify which one so I'll say E.III) also saw action over the Eastern Front and the Camel also saw action over Italy

[BraveSirRobin]

27 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

In that sense it makes no sense for the devs to do Korea 

Except they’re doing Korea and not WW1 Italy.  So your assessment might be flawed.

[Enceladus828]

12 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Except they’re doing Korea and not WW1 Italy.  So your assessment might be flawed.

It’s fascinating how this thread has devolved into more WW1 content, yes or no discussion 🙄

[Avimimus]

20 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

'Aversion to the unfamiliar' is hardly confined to choice of video games. It is more or less the norm for most people, most of the time, regardless of what the subject is. If I see 'Baked beans in tomato sauce' on a supermarket shelf, I'll know what I'm getting. 'Braised beetroot in radish purée' might possibly taste as good, or even better, but I'm unlikely to try it on the off-chance. Selling stuff people have heard of is always easier than selling stuff they haven't.

 

The simple truth is that video games make most of their money from casual sales. They need to appeal to people who see the title and maybe look at a YouTube video or two to make their choices.

 

(1) Psychological research shows that this actually varies a lot. Some people are much more open to new experiences or attracted to them. I can provide citations (peer reviewed literature) showing this is really highly variable.

 

(2) I think the Italy vs. Austria-Hungary would actually be easier to sell the a casual audience than the Western Front would be. The only aircraft a casual audience would miss is the Fokker Dr.I and S.E.5 (and maybe the Sopwith Triplane). Other iconic aircraft were on the front (e.g. Sopwith Camel, Albatros, Nieuports). Seriously - A lot of more casual people don't have the background to really see the differences.

 

The other reason is simple, the Italian Front is visually very striking:

- Mountains

- Venice

- Tri-engined twin-boom bombers (with cannon and multiple machine guns). Even triplane bombers.

- Single seat seaplane fighters

- 'Star-strutter' wing bracing configurations

 

So, it would be very easy to get people's attention with a screenshot or two. Add in having the fastest German and Allied fighters of the war... and the issue might be that it would be difficult to get an audience introduced in the Italian front to find the Western Front interesting.

[Trooper117]

15 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

it makes no sense for the devs to do Korea because you know, it's The Forgotten War.

 

It makes a lot of sense for them to do Korea actually... the Russians had a big impact in Korea, they provided experienced combat pilots, ground crews and trainers, plus a world beating jet aircraft that was a thorn in the side for allied air forces... and they would have quite a bit of information from the Russian perspective that would be hard to come by if it was a western dev team... did I mention the devs come from, where was it again?  so yes, it makes sense they are doing Korea.

[Aapje]

@Trooper117

 

And it was mainly American pilots on the other side, and the US is a major market for flight simming.

[Jackfraser24]

21 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

 

It makes a lot of sense for them to do Korea actually... the Russians had a big impact in Korea, they provided experienced combat pilots, ground crews and trainers, plus a world beating jet aircraft that was a thorn in the side for allied air forces... and they would have quite a bit of information from the Russian perspective that would be hard to come by if it was a western dev team... did I mention the devs come from, where was it again?  so yes, it makes sense they are doing Korea.

I also think that Korea makes a lot of sense as there is very little competition from other combat flight sim developers. Yes I have broken my silence after a matter of only days. 

3 minutes ago, Aapje said:

@Trooper117

 

And it was mainly American pilots on the other side, and the US is a major market for flight simming.

Absolutely agree with you there. Its a win in both regions.

Edited November 16, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[Jackfraser24]

I would like to raise the question again about the Spanish Civil War. I think that it would be money well spent because 

1. It would act as a chronological prequel to the Second World War modules in Europe that we will most likely see, just as Korea is probably going to be the chronological sequel to the string of WWII modules in the Pacific (in a way).
2. There are many battles and campaigns that these modules can based on such as the Catalonia Offensive, Aragon Offensive, and the Levante Offensive, among many more offensives, battles and campaigns. 
3. A series of modules based on the Spanish Civil War would have enough planes on both sides to make the gameplay exciting and keep us on our toes when we play pilot career mode. 

[Enceladus828]

I wouldn’t say no to a SCW module but I would say that the Pacific and the Italian Campaign are much more likely than the former. The developers need to know their audience when they put their first steps forward and while Italy and some places of the PTO are unknown, most of the aircraft that fought there are well known, therefore it’s a better bang in the buck than the SCW. But once they’ve done the very requested places and aircraft and the SCW looks like a viable option then I see no reason why not.

 

7 hours ago, Avimimus said:

So, it would be very easy to get people's attention with a screenshot or two.

Exactly, throw in a picture of a Nieuport or Caproni Ca. 3 over the Dolomites or the Camel over Venice and you’ve got a lot of people’s interest right there.

 

22 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Neither of these things are accurate. After Vol. 4 for FC is released, that is all that is planned for WWI right now in either the GB or the upcoming IL-2 Series engine.

I was just saying that if more planes were ever added to FC after FC4 it would only be 1 or 2 at most, and if a new WW1 sim in the Korea engine set on the Western Front was to start up, it would be early war with no planes from FC except for maybe the Eindecker and DH.2. But Luke, on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being very unlikely and 10 being likely, the chances of seeing a WW1 sim in the Korea engine before 2030 would be no more than 2?

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

Based on this thread the SCW is out because the matchups would be too asymmetrical, but if the matchups didn't suck it could have potential with the right marketing.

[LukeFF]

19 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

But Luke, on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being very unlikely and 10 being likely, the chances of seeing a WW1 sim in the Korea engine before 2030 would be no more than 2?

 

We've announced the Pacific after Korea, and that's all for now. I'm not going to speculate on what will come after that. 

[DD_Arthur]

On 11/15/2024 at 4:55 PM, AndyJWest said:

The simple truth is that video games make most of their money from casual sales. They need to appeal to people who see the title and maybe look at a YouTube video or two to make their choices.

Exactly this! 

[ST_Catchov]

9 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

(1) Psychological research shows that this actually varies a lot. Some people are much more open to new experiences or attracted to them. I can provide citations (peer reviewed literature) showing this is really highly variable.

 

(2) I think the Italy vs. Austria-Hungary would actually be easier to sell the a casual audience than the Western Front would be. The only aircraft a casual audience would miss is the Fokker Dr.I and S.E.5 (and maybe the Sopwith Triplane). Other iconic aircraft were on the front (e.g. Sopwith Camel, Albatros, Nieuports). Seriously - A lot of more casual people don't have the background to really see the differences.

 

The other reason is simple, the Italian Front is visually very striking:

- Mountains

- Venice

- Tri-engined twin-boom bombers (with cannon and multiple machine guns). Even triplane bombers.

- Single seat seaplane fighters

- 'Star-strutter' wing bracing configurations

 

So, it would be very easy to get people's attention with a screenshot or two. Add in having the fastest German and Allied fighters of the war... and the issue might be that it would be difficult to get an audience introduced in the Italian front to find the Western Front interesting.

 

Ah, a man of taste and class at last. A well-educated man who obviously went to a good Canadian school. A man of good character. A man with imagination and foresight.

 

WW1 Italy for the win. And of course, Jack Fraser, after his long hiatus, also approves and one hopes will comment further, as only he can.

 

I would add we really need the ability to land and take-off from bodies of water in seaplanes a la RoF. The beautiful Macchi flying boat for instance. Imagine the dogfights over stunning scenery. 

 

Think Porco Rosso. We can all be pigs.

 

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

We've announced the Pacific after Korea, and that's all for now. I'm not going to speculate on what will come after that. 

 

Okay, so WW1 Italy is not out of the question. Will I live long enough to see it? Perhaps not, but it will be a legacy for the youngsters to enjoy. 🙂 

[Zooropa_Fly]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

We've announced the Pacific after Korea, and that's all for now. I'm not going to speculate on what will come after that. 

 

How many times does Luke have to say this ?

[BlitzPig_EL]

Delusion is a powerful drug.

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

How many times does Luke have to say this ?

 

Poor soul is doomed to an unending purgatorial groundhog day.

 

...and think, he also has to listen to me regularly mumble something-something slower 1916 two-seaters...

[Trooper117]

14 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

How many times does Luke have to say this ?

 

Come on... he loves it, otherwise he'd have sacked it months ago. It won't be long before he's saying it in Russian!

[Jackfraser24]

I think that the first Pacific module for the new series will be based on the Battle of Midway because

1. It was the turning point in the Pacific War and thus too important to leave out.
2. I think that IL-2 will want to crush any competition that they will come across.
3. It was an integral part of Pacific Fighters and doing a module based on the Battle of Midway would honor that. 

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

I hope they do anything but Midway.  Midway got boring real fast in the old IL2, and it won't be any different here.  Carrier "campaigns" in the Pacific Theater were short 4 or 5 day affairs.  They had no long term ops because of the need to frequently replenish supplies and run back to Pearl or some other base for repairs.

I know that carrier ops are the glamourous draw of the Pacific, but the real meat of any single player or multiplayer air combat will be, by necessity, something to do with combined land based and sea based battles, such as New Guinea, The Solomons, or the Philippines.  These combat zones will offer the best replay ability, and options for long term play.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, I want to fly carrier ops, but there is a LOT more to the Pacific than Wildcats, Hellcats, and A6Ms.

Remember, the thing that both the Allied and Imperial Japanese Navy feared the most was land based aircraft.  Why?  Because they could sustain operations for far longer periods of time.

Edited November 17, 2024 by BlitzPig_EL

[Ghost666]

Well, right now at this moment in time I opt for the Solomons. Why? Carriers, the Cactus AF (p39s, p38s, p40s and all the navy stuff), B17s, Battleships, PTs, ect......ect....

But ask me tomorrow, it might be somewhere else.

And then again tomorrow never comes.  LOL 

 

Have a good today!

[Trooper117]

Doubt they will do Midway or Guadalcanal... CP are making those two, and people will make direct comparisons, and if they turn out to be inferior it won't do their finances any good or IC's reputation... no, it's to much of a risk.

The Pacific war theatre was huge, so there is plenty of scope and battles to choose from to make their mark.

[LukeFF]

I will just say right now the first Pacific installment will have a mix of Army and Navy planes on both sides. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Outstanding.

[Avimimus]

An interesting development. I hope it is also pre-1944 (i.e. Solomons or New Guinea, maybe the Philippines)

[Gambit21]

5 hours ago, Avimimus said:

An interesting development. I hope it is also pre-1944 (i.e. Solomons or New Guinea, maybe the Philippines)

 

It's really very limited choices given those params, only one of the things you listed being plausible really, and certainly isn't the Solomons.

New Guinea is the only smart choice for them frankly. 

 

 

Edit: Very late war home islands would just be dumb.

[Jackfraser24]

14 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I hope they do anything but Midway.  Midway got boring real fast in the old IL2, and it won't be any different here.  Carrier "campaigns" in the Pacific Theater were short 4 or 5 day affairs.  They had no long term ops because of the need to frequently replenish supplies and run back to Pearl or some other base for repairs.

I know that carrier ops are the glamourous draw of the Pacific, but the real meat of any single player or multiplayer air combat will be, by necessity, something to do with combined land based and sea based battles, such as New Guinea, The Solomons, or the Philippines.  These combat zones will offer the best replay ability, and options for long term play.

Maybe instead of just having a module recreating the Battle of Midway they could also have a large map which includes Hawaii, where the attack on Pearl Harbor can also be recreated as well the Japanese advances east and their subsequent retreat westwards. This map would have to be a very large one though. I think that if a module based on Pearl Harbor, the Battle of Midway and the event in between were to be made, it would sell rather well.

Edited November 18, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[Avimimus]

15 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

It's really very limited choices given those params, only one of the things you listed being plausible really, and certainly isn't the Solomons.

New Guinea is the only smart choice for them frankly. 

 

Edit: Very late war home islands would just be dumb.

 

There were a some IJA aircraft in a couple of raids late in the Solomons campaign... so it technically meets the criteria, but it is a stretch.

 

New Guinea clearly qualifies - but why not the Philippines?

[Jackfraser24]

30 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

There were a some IJA aircraft in a couple of raids late in the Solomons campaign... so it technically meets the criteria, but it is a stretch.

 

New Guinea clearly qualifies - but why not the Philippines?

I think then (if Midway is not next) that a module based around the New Guinea/Bismarck Archipelago region seems likely for several reasons.

1. A module based on the New Guinea front alludes well to what clues LukeFF has given us - a mix of land based and naval planes.
2. The map that comes along with it will be nothing short of beautiful. Rainforest, ocean, islands, mountains, volcanoes, etc... We'd get a really diverse terrain. 
3. New Guinea was an important campaign and we'd get a decent pilot career mode out of it. 
4. Recreating the New Guinea Campaign into a pilot career would require a diversity of planes ranging from fighters to bombers to torpedo bombers and transport planes. 
5. It would be a really popular module. 

[Jackfraser24]

On 11/16/2024 at 1:13 PM, LukeFF said:

We've announced the Pacific after Korea, and that's all for now. I'm not going to speculate on what will come after that. 

That's ok. That's what we're here for. 

[Avimimus]

29 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

I think then (if Midway is not next) that a module based around the New Guinea/Bismarck Archipelago region seems likely for several reasons.

1. A module based on the New Guinea front alludes well to what clues LukeFF has given us - a mix of land based and naval planes.
2. The map that comes along with it will be nothing short of beautiful. Rainforest, ocean, islands, mountains, volcanoes, etc... We'd get a really diverse terrain. 
3. New Guinea was an important campaign and we'd get a decent pilot career mode out of it. 
4. Recreating the New Guinea Campaign into a pilot career would require a diversity of planes ranging from fighters to bombers to torpedo bombers and transport planes. 
5. It would be a really popular module. 

 

It is the one I'm most interested in as well. I'm curious about why Gambit21 thinks the Philippines aren't plausible though.

[Jackfraser24]

20 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

It is the one I'm most interested in as well. I'm curious about why Gambit21 thinks the Philippines aren't plausible though.

Maybe doing the entirety of the Philippines on one map would be too large of a task or computers would not be able to take it? I think that that could be a major obstacle that they will eventually overcome.

Edited November 18, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[Trooper117]

It will be Malaya/Singapore... be sure  

Japanese Army and Navy aircraft involved, the campaign lasted from December to mid February when Singapore surrendered!

[Jackfraser24]

1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

It will be Malaya/Singapore... be sure  

Japanese Army and Navy aircraft involved, the campaign lasted from December to mid February when Singapore surrendered!

I’d love a module based on the British Malayan campaign. It could definitely do well.

[Gambit21]

8 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

There were a some IJA aircraft in a couple of raids late in the Solomons campaign... so it technically meets the criteria, but it is a stretch.

 

New Guinea clearly qualifies - but why not the Philippines?

There are a few possibilities - however  the fact that New Guinea exists (and is so good in so many ways) will leave me with a sort of “what we’re you thinking?” feeling for various reasons if they pick one of the others. We’ll just have to see what happens. 

Philippines is OK mind you, it’s just late war.

 

Edit: I say this in the context of assuming that Guadalcanal/Solomons (the best option IMHO) isn’t an option since CP is going there. 

Edited November 18, 2024 by Gambit21