Back to flat screen and dalenclip

[=DW=_M00se-VR]

Hi:
My first post here ...Been using vr all the time (quest 3)..its what got me back into the game but recently thought i would try my dalenclip again with Il2 and my 49 ultrawide curved monitor..And i have to say im enjoying it a lot ..I thought after being in vr that flatscreen would be way too boring ..but its nice..grfx on max can see further ,dont have a big box on my face and didnt take too long to get used to...I also found i was able to sim longer ..So lots of pluses ..Im sure when i dip back to vr i will get the wow feeling again ..but i find it excellent that i can now enjoy both and swap it up as I feel..Anyone else have similar experience?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Yes, I have also Q3 , and prefer playing 2D on my curved OLED monitor. 

[sevenless]

Can 2nd that. I prefer playing on my Sony 4k 43 inch TV with wireless Delanclip over playing with my Quest 3.

[nachinus]

Never heard of Delanclip, seems like a good alternative to TrackIR I've been using for years and years. ¿Is there any advantage over the good old TrackIR?

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

I've been using one of these for a couple years now.  No issues. Wireless.  Runs on a single AA battery.   https://grassmonkeysimulations.com/

[=DW=_M00se-VR]

5 hours ago, nachinus said:

Never heard of Delanclip, seems like a good alternative to TrackIR I've been using for years and years. ¿Is there any advantage over the good old TrackIR?

Its a lot cheaper but works really well

[506CR_Ave_Fenix]

Some days ago, i made some bombing runs on Combat Box with my Track IR , and was so fun, as was mention before, i feel that i can fly more time with my TIR that on VR.

Its nice to give a pause on VR and enjoy 2D graphics and benefits.

 

S

[=DW=_M00se-VR]

Some days ago, i made some bombing runs on Combat Box with my Track IR , and was so fun, as was mention before, i feel that i can fly more time with my TIR that on VR.

Its nice to give a pause on VR and enjoy 2D graphics and benefits.


totally agree ..and im very surprised ..people constantly say theres no going back ..but to be honest there are a lot of benefits ..plus when you do dip into vr again you get the wow factor 

 

[ST_Catchov]

9 hours ago, GOA_Companere_VR said:

Some days ago, i made some bombing runs on Combat Box with my Track IR , and was so fun, as was mention before, i feel that i can fly more time with my TIR that on VR.

Its nice to give a pause on VR and enjoy 2D graphics and benefits.

 

S

 

4 hours ago, =DW=_M00se-VR said:

totally agree ..and im very surprised ..people constantly say theres no going back ..but to be honest there are a lot of benefits ..

 

Yep.

 

I've been a Track IR head for years. I'm not going VR. Too much faffin' about, too much money, too much discomfort, too restrictive, too claustrophobic. Too many negatives for me to warrant that "wow factor". I wanna be free man. Head tracking is still very cool.

 

 

 

[1Sascha]

On 7/2/2024 at 10:34 AM, nachinus said:

Never heard of Delanclip, seems like a good alternative to TrackIR I've been using for years and years. ¿Is there any advantage over the good old TrackIR?

It does the same thing as TiR's "Pro Clip", but it's made from metal (steel? aluminium? not sure).

 

IIRC, you can either use just the clip on TiR instead of their Pro Clip or you can, as I have, go with the full set - which also contains/contained a modified PSEye camera and some instructions. The full set uses OpenTrack as its software. It takes a bit of setting up/fiddling with some values, but once that had been done the thing has been super reliable for me.

 

I've started out on TiR5 + Pro Clip but am now using the Delanclip full-set (wired variant) and some differences in SW and the UI aside, I think the Delanclip solution is just as good as TrackIR. Two upsides that I see are: The clip is a *lot* sturdier than TrackIR's clip - since I had been forewarned of its flimsiness, I had treated my Pro Clip like a raw egg and I still managed to break it after a year or so. Second upside is, of course, the price.

 

They also offer a wireless version if you want to cut down on the cable-clutter...

 

https://delanclip.com/

 

Re VR:

The only thing that truly bugs me about VR is the sheer hassle of setting up the PC and all the peripherals for it. It's annoying enough that, no matter what, I have to undo both my HOTAS-mounts and put them in the proper position on my desk, and there's still more stuff to do before I can really jump into the air, even without VR (like opening Joy2Key, etc). But with VR, there's even more stuff to do before I can go - plus VR is a bit of a bummer on really hot summer days..

Other than that, I really do enjoy VR a lot more than flying "flat" - going traditional on my 32'' monitor feels like I'm playing a sim - going all out with VR feels like I'm actually sitting inside my very own Bf109 or FW190.

 

 

S.

[spreckair]

I have only flown in VR, but yesterday I tried out flying on a screen and I just couldn't do it.  It felt to me like flying with blinders on.  Of course, I did not take the time to set up for efficient screen use.  Maybe if I had started that way it would be different.

[JMax]

I am curious as to how the DelanClip performs compared to the simple TrackIR hat clip. Does it work with the TrackIR cam?Does the Delanclip track better? Is it better at rejecting stray light sources?(this is my main frustration with the TrackIR hatclip--I cant use it during daylight even with my windows darkened....🙃. Thanks.

[1Sascha]

7 hours ago, JMax said:

how the DelanClip performs compared to the simple TrackIR hat clip.

Apples to oranges, since the hat clip doesn't offer 6DOF and relies on a more primitive principle to track your head movements.

 

The Delanclip is a replacement for/alternative to TIR's "Pro Clip". Both it and the Pro Clip use "active" tracking, since they contain three IR LEDs that make tracking more reliable under changing ambient lighting conditions. The simpler hat clip/hat use reflective pads for the camera to track - so you won't be able to use them in a dark room. Since both the Pro Clip and Delanclip use LEDs (which are "seen" and tracked by the camera), they will work fine in low light conditions.

 

7 hours ago, JMax said:

Does it work with the TrackIR cam?Does the Delanclip track better?

 

 

I haven't tried it myself, but I don't see why it shouldn't work with TIR. For as long as I've known TIR, folks have built their own active tracking clips - partly because the Pro Clip is pretty expensive for what it is and partly because the Pro Clip is notorious for its flimsiness and tendency to break. I suspect the Delanclip started out as a sturdier alternative to the Pro Clip that the guy initially built for himself and which he then started to sell on the net. All these "pro" clips are is a IR-light emitter for the camera to pick up and track, so unless TIR uses a different wavelength or something, the Delanclip should work fine with a TIR-camera. Since the Delanclip-store doesn't mention it specifically, I would ask the guy about compatibility before ordering, though.

 

Side note on the Pro Clip's flimsiness: Back when I managed to break mine, I did some research on the web and found 3D-printing templates for a tiny clamp specifically designed to mend a broken Pro Clip. So it's *that* common for it to break that someone went through the trouble of designing a part meant to repair it. AFAIK, Naturalpoint/TIR haven't bothered to updated the design, but I haven't checked their products in a while, so I'm not 100% sure on that.

 

Also as stated in my last post: I never compared them side to side, but I did use TIR5 with their Pro Clip for many years and then switched to the full Delanclip setup and I did not notice any difference in performance. Both will give you 6 DOF so the only difference between these two solutions is the SW (TIR's own vs OpenTrack) and the fact that the Delanclip is made from stainless steel and has a much less convoluted way of mounting to your headset. Plus it's cheaper ... TIR's full set is listed at just under $200 on their site while the full Delanclip set (wired) is 59 GBP (plus taxes and shipping though, but should still be cheaper than TIR).

 

Note: I'm talking about what I'm using. Wired Delanclip plus modified PSEye camera I bought from the guy plus OpenTrack software to run it all. Looks like he's since moved to a different camera, but all these things really are is a pretty low res webcam, modified to only pick up IR, IIRC.

 

Here's what the current wired set looks like:

 

There also is a wireless Delanclip available, which eliminates the USB cable needed to power the clip's LEDs and which also has a different look and construction than the wired version.

 

 

 

Bottom line: If you already own TIR, you *should* be able to use either of the two Delanclips and use them for "active" tracking - which is what you want because only active tracking will give you 6DOF. If you don't own TIR, I would first check prices and availability in your region. One reason why I went with the Delan-set was that I couldn't find any vendors offering TIR at non-ludicrous prices. IIRC, I would've had to pay something like €250 to €300 for a complete TIR-5 set (camera and Pro Clip) which was just ridiculous. I think I paid a little over €100 for the full (wired) Delanclip-set - and that was after the whole Brexit non-sense, so I did have to pay extra in taxes/import-duties when ordering from the EU. 

 

S.

 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

On 7/2/2024 at 10:34 AM, nachinus said:

Never heard of Delanclip, seems like a good alternative to TrackIR I've been using for years and years. ¿Is there any advantage over the good old TrackIR?

This is just hardware, you need software. But if you have TrackIR from NaturalPoint you can use theirs tracker and soft and just replace the fragile clip. Delanclip dimensions are the same and build quality is better. I do use NaturalPoint hat  clip on top of headphones because the of straight alignment of the reflective material ( better tracking arck and symmetric tracking) plus no  cables and power. Tracking is perfect. 

Edited July 8, 2024 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[LukeFF]

I've used a metal wired Delanclip for years with the original TIR5 camera. Far more sturdy than the one from TIR and it tracks just as well. 

[Tone71]

On 7/8/2024 at 8:21 AM, 1Sascha said:

Apples to oranges, since the hat clip doesn't offer 6DOF and relies on a more primitive principle to track your head movements.

 

The Delanclip is a replacement for/alternative to TIR's "Pro Clip". Both it and the Pro Clip use "active" tracking, since they contain three IR LEDs that make tracking more reliable under changing ambient lighting conditions. The simpler hat clip/hat use reflective pads for the camera to track - so you won't be able to use them in a dark room. Since both the Pro Clip and Delanclip use LEDs (which are "seen" and tracked by the camera), they will work fine in low light conditions.

 

 

As a user of the hat clip just wanted to add that it DOES offer 6DOF and the reflective pads reflect the IR signal of the camera so you CAN use them in the dark.

[ST_Catchov]

On 7/8/2024 at 5:43 PM, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I do use NaturalPoint hat  clip on top of headphones because the of straight alignment of the reflective material ( better tracking arck and symmetric tracking) plus no  cables and power. Tracking is perfect. 

 

36 minutes ago, Tone71 said:

As a user of the hat clip just wanted to add that it DOES offer 6DOF and the reflective pads reflect the IR signal of the camera so you CAN use them in the dark.

 

Yeah I'm a long term user of the TrackIR 3-prong hat clip reflectors. I don't know where Sascha got his fake news from, but they do all those things the gentlemen above mention. They're stylish and adjustable on any peaked cap. And so light, why, you don't even know they're there! 6dof freedom. They are however averse to daylight which sends the tracking plum loco so night time is the right time.

 

 

[BOO]

Never had the TIR pro but I found the delan clip more flexible in the manner I could position the TIR camera. Plus i dont need to wear a hat. For my set up is was necessary to use a gooseneck to clamp the camera off centre and away from the TV i use as amonitor so the delans side head placments works a treat. Been rock solid for about 7 or 8 years and  thousands of hours of use. 

 

A big plus for me is that the leds on the delan mean I can turn the IRs in the camera right down making it less of a distraction. Quite bombproof to light interference that way to. 

Edited July 10, 2024 by BOO

[JMax]

Being able to have head tracking during daylight,would be the difference for me. My trackIR hat clip is unusable with just a hint of sunlight sneaking in.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

3 hours ago, JMax said:

Being able to have head tracking during daylight,would be the difference for me. My trackIR hat clip is unusable with just a hint of sunlight sneaking in.

I think you can adjust sensitivity. Never had problems, but I would not want wear a hat , thats why I mount it on headphones.

[molodoi]

11 hours ago, JMax said:

Being able to have head tracking during daylight,would be the difference for me. My trackIR hat clip is unusable with just a hint of sunlight sneaking in.

 

I can confirm what 1PL-Husar-1Esk said, the sensitivity of the camera is adjustable (as far as I remember). I am using a TIR3 Pro with hat clip since 2004 in daylight. The only limitation is direct sunlight or a sunbeam projected on the wall behind me and seen by the camera.

[1Sascha]

On 7/11/2024 at 12:58 AM, ST_Catchov said:

I don't know where Sascha got his fake news from,

 

LOL... yeah, I was pursuing a nefarious agenda when I posted this.

 

I simply misremembered and after having checked again on various sites, I'll happily correct my mistake. Yes: The reflective clip does support 6DOF.

 

I still maintain that the active solutions are superior, simply because it's a more reliable way of tracking under varying lighting conditions. The only thing I have to worry about on my setup is that at certain times of the day and with clear skies, the sun can shine too directly onto my camera and throw tracking off that way - simple solution is to close the shutters on my window.

I also did use the reflective clip for short periods on other people's setups and I felt that the tracking was a little less smooth than with an active clip.

 

Since we don't have to buy from just one supplier who hasn't updated their product in ages and whose prices are still at "we're the only game in town"-levels, I would also still recommend checking out the more affordable alternatives. Depending on your location, you might be able to grab a full Delanclip setup for a little less than a "genuine" TIR5 without the ProClip. Heck, I just did a quick price check on amazon-de and they want €230 plus shipping for a full-set (camera plus Pro Clip) TIR5.

 

And if it's only an upgrade to active tracking you're after, going with the stand-alone Delanclip instead of the flimsy TIR Pro Clip is pretty much a no-brainer, IMO.

 

I think there was another alternative out there some time ago ("trackhat"?), but I've no idea if they're still around or what their stuff is like.

 

S.

[ST_Catchov]

1 hour ago, 1Sascha said:

Heck, I just did a quick price check on amazon-de and they want €230 plus shipping for a full-set (camera plus Pro Clip) TIR5.

 

Yeah trackir is pretty expensive these days. I've had mine for something like 15 years now and still going strong. I can't remember what I paid for the hat clip and camera back then but I think it was reasonable.

 

On 7/11/2024 at 5:14 PM, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I think you can adjust sensitivity.

 

I tried the camera light sensitivity adjustment in daylight and it was marginally better, only in that it worked for a bit longer than usual ...and then it would freak out. So it's unusable. I guess it's curtains for me. If I could be bothered.

 

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

I think there was another alternative out there some time ago ("trackhat"?), but I've no idea if they're still around or what their stuff is like.

 

TrackHat is still around, yes. 

[SR-F_Winger]

Had the Q3 for testing purposes. Went gladly back to my Aero. I can actualyl not go back to flat flying again.
I am just too used to the immersion.

[Avyx]

I'm using TrackIR 5 with the hat clip reflector, but I want to switch to Delan Fusion ( wireless )

Wonder how DelanClip performs, compared to the TrackIR hat clip reflector.

Any advices, guys ?

Thank you

[=LD=Bulldog*]

Track IR 5 here and love it.

 

I tried the Reverb G2 and Pico 4 but went back to the Track IR. Perhaps will revist VR when it is 4K without a 'sweet spot'. I get the immersion but spotting and eyeball candy is everything on a ultrawide monitor. 

 

Bulldog the Flat Screen One

[Avyx]

How do you use the TrackIR? With clip pro? Hat Clip Reflector? 

Edited May 2 by Avyx

[=LD=Bulldog*]

Hey Avyx,

 

I have the hat clip reflector on a baseball cap.

 

Works wonderfully!

 

BD

[Avyx]

I've read a lot about Clip Pro, many people say, it's better than the hat clip reflector

I'd go with Delanclip but I'm not sure how to mount it on my Dan Clark E3 headphones. 

 

 

Edited May 2 by Avyx