Presenting our new title, Korea. IL-2 Series

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

Check your bias and filter settings. PTO is the money that’s been sitting on the table.

I agree with the rest of your post, and possibly PTO would sell big in the USA, but I'm not so sure about Europe. Say "Iwo Jima" to the average Dutchman and they probably think you're sneezing.

 

22 minutes ago, Bell said:

When a WWII developer develops postwar things,look at war thunder.

 

 

Look, we get it, you're disappointed it isn't another WW2 title after a couple of ambiguous comments by the Devs in the past made you think it was. And being disappointed is fine - I too would probably have preferred a Battle of Sicily to a Battle of Korea. But you can stay salty about it, or accept the fact that we're probably gonna get a real fun game nevertheless. The jets we're getting are basically only one generation away from the 262 and Arado we have now; they're still flimsy things with little automation that require a lot of feel. The armament is still cannons and machine guns, or unguided rockets and bombs for ground attack. Some of the aircraft we'll get are even WW2 era themselves. All in all, Korea is not that different from WW2

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

9 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Not really, as it affects how much attention certain aspects of the game receive/don’t receive. So I doesn’t actually pan out necessarily as you say. Fly a few career missions and note the sterile airfields as one example. I could go on. but I don’t want to wind down that path here beyond this.

 

I'd argue the grass isn't greener on the other side, but yeah I don't want to go down that rabbit hole either. But I will say that the devs passion is in making things historical, so I doubt they'd abandon that even if the money starts flooding in from different types of customers.

[Aapje]

10 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I agree with the rest of your post, and possibly PTO would sell big in the USA, but I'm not so sure about Europe. Say "Iwo Jima" to the average Dutchman and they probably think you're sneezing.

 

The average person doesn't play flight sims and knows hardly anything about history anyway. It's irrelevant. It's all about the group with an interest in these things, and they will know it.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

7 minutes ago, Aapje said:

It's irrelevant. It's all about the group with an interest in these things, and they will know it.

I'm not so sure about that. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a significant percentage of new players coming from games such as MSFS or WT, without any real interest in history. It's how I got into IL2 (1946) and into WW2 history myself. If the game is about something you've at least heard about, I think that would be an extra incentive to buy it. 

[Enceladus828]

25 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Look, we get it, you're disappointed it isn't another WW2 title after a couple of ambiguous comments by the Devs in the past made you think it was. And being disappointed is fine - I too would probably have preferred a Battle of Sicily to a Battle of Korea. But you can stay salty about it, or accept the fact that we're probably gonna get a real fun game nevertheless.

I may be seriously overestimating this, perhaps some GBs planes could be ported over and instead of doing the Pacific after Korea, the devs can do the Invasion of Sicily with the respective planeset (Beaufighter, SM. 79, A-36, Spitfire Mk. VIII, etc.).

[ST_Catchov]

3 hours ago, Patricks said:

The Bridges at Toko Ri!

 

Pfft lol

 

I put this one together with a bunch of unknowns. But nobody remembers it. It's always the bloody la de da bridges at toko whatever! Billy Holden. What a loser! Mickey Rooney! Tell me you're joking! Not that I'm bitter. But it was all RIGGED! It's a witch-hunt. I even added a bit of romance for the young tuggers ... and a great theme song wot I wrote! But no .... bloody bridge over the river whatsit or whatever. Bloody Hollywood moguls! Blacklisting bastards. I even narrated in a yank accent so the US dudes could understand wot I was jibbering. Even dubbed the actors. For a wider audience see. But no. Still nothing. I coulda been a contender .....

 

Anyway, I thought I'd bring this to the devs attention. For some tips see. On how to make a decent Korean epic. And not rely on them other ones ....

 

 

 

[BraveSirRobin]

3 hours ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

I think this. Will perhaps signal the slow wind down and eventual death of the company.  Korea as far as i know has never had a huge sim success.   WW2. Is always a winner, no matter the front.  I would have thought that continued fleshing out of ww2,   and more. Done in tank crew. With. More tanks,td's, mobile artillery and scout cars would heve been exciting.    It appears, that the majority of us, or a large swathe will simply need to hold on, continue to play il2.  Until the next ww2 sim comes out...   additionally, i do not think that the new. Pacific theater game being worked on will be that next great thing.   A novelty game with probably lower draw, much like this new korea game will be unfortunately

Dude, there is more to life than the numbers 0, 1 , and 9.  We’re essentially getting a WW2 game with some cool jets and no 109s or 190s.  It won’t destroy the franchise.

[BraveSirRobin]

29 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

I may be seriously overestimating this, perhaps some GBs planes could be ported over and instead of doing the Pacific after Korea, the devs can do the Invasion of Sicily with the respective planeset (Beaufighter, SM. 79, A-36, Spitfire Mk. VIII, etc.).

Yes, you’re seriously overestimating this.  If they can make carriers work in this engine they’re doing Pacific next.  If they can’t they’re probably doing Battle of Britain.  They’re not doing Sicily next because they want to be able to afford decent whiskey or vodka to drink themselves to death.

[JG1_Wittmann]

9 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Dude, there is more to life than the numbers 0, 1 , and 9.  We’re essentially getting a WW2 game with some cool jets and no 109s or 190s.  It won’t destroy the franchise.

Doing a Korea  game  will not destroy the franchise.  I  think maybe it will not get the sales, maybe it will.  There are many that still play IL2-1946,  alot got IL2GB when it came out.    What will kill the franchise is if another game developer does a WW2  AC  sim, like gb,  and does it good.   The pacific theater is ok,  but that,  in the opinion of many does not sell  as well as a european theater game.  That new game, if someone makes it will take a large chunk out of  gb's comm.   THe reason no1 does korea is because it  does not draw like WW2  europe, west or east.   Jets or no, korea sux.   Many that fly WW2  do not want to fly jets

[BraveSirRobin]

1 minute ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

 What will kill the franchise is if another game developer does a WW2  AC  sim, like gb,  and does it good.  

Yeah, I don’t think they have much to worry about.  There is someone doing PTO.  Hopefully.  That’s it.  No one is doing a GB clone.  

[Gambit21]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Say "Iwo Jima" to the average Dutchman and they probably think you're sneezing.

 

 

Well then that guy is missing out and needs to pick up a book.  🤣

I was surprised at how often interest in the PTO is expressed on the Russian forum.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2024 by Gambit21

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

7 hours ago, Aapje said:

@AEthelraedUnraed

 

Yeah, I don't get why so many people are complaining. The F86 / MIG matchup is great and there is a ton of diversity possible in this setting. 

 

I think that this is just a vocal minority and it will actually appeal to many.

Polls like this are not by any means an accurate assessment.  But this one does reflect the preferred direction of those who participated.   Korea was not a big winner. In fact it placed last.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2024 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[Enceladus828]

10 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

If they can’t they’re probably doing Battle of Britain.  They’re not doing Sicily next…

There is a greater demand for Sicily than there is for Battle of Britain. I mean when was the last time the Invasion of Sicily covered in a flight sim, not including War Thunder and 1946 Mods?

[BraveSirRobin]

1 minute ago, Enceladus828 said:

There is a greater demand for Sicily than there is for Battle of Britain. I mean when was the last time the Invasion of Sicily covered in a flight sim, not including War Thunder and 1946 Mods?

lol.  No, there absolutely is not.  BoB is one of the most iconic battles in human history.  Pretty sure Sicily involved pizza.  There is a reason it hasn’t been recreated in a flight sim. And I say this as a person who would love to see an Italy module in this game.  They.  Need. To. Make. Money. 

[[CPT]Crunch]

10 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

It is true that they don’t have to listen to any of us.  And there will be features or changes that a significant number of people will disagree with or dislike.  They don’t listen to all of us because it’s literally impossible.  But they’re absolutely not going to care about the opinions of people who announce that they’re not buying a product.

Oh yes they will, when they're already current paid users, you'd have to be funded from another planet to ignore a tidal wave like that.

[BraveSirRobin]

7 minutes ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

Polls like this are not by any means an accurate assessment.  But this one does reflect the preferred direction of those who participated.   Korea was not a big winner.

 

 

Polls on this forum are completely useless.  Most of the people who buy these games never visit the forum.

[Gambit21]

7 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

There is a greater demand for Sicily than there is for Battle of Britain. I mean when was the last time the Invasion of Sicily covered in a flight sim, not including War Thunder and 1946 Mods?

 

Talking about "Forgotten" Sicily/Med is a great example...this is little known in the USA comparatively speaking, outside of history buffs.

I've been into aviation since I was a kid and I personally couldn't tell you much about it it. Thus I'm not interested in it 'shrug'

It's large gap in my knowledge, but the point is that at least in the U.S. I'm not equating my experience/knowledge to everyone on the planet, I'm saying that around here at least, I'm the rule rather than the exception. So that's a pretty good chunk of the West at any rate. 

 

I never saw a movie as a kid dealing the the Med, or a TV show, or a documentary. Meanwhile I saw/read plenty on the Battle of Britain. 

In any case, they're (wisely IMO) not doing Sicily so might as well put it out of your head.  More 109's and 190's is not a selling point...that's financial suicide at this juncture.

They'll be left in the dust. Korea is smart, PTO is smart. 

 

So then where is the demand for Sicily greater than the Battle of Britain? (which nobody is pounding down 1C's door for)

Not over here. 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Polls on this forum are completely useless.  Most of the people who buy these games never visit the forum.

And yet those who do spoke quite clearly..

[BraveSirRobin]

Just now, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

And yet those who do spoke quite clearly..

And were ignored.  For good reasons.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Do tell.    And the good reasons for ignoring your current customer base are? 

Korea finished dead last.

With only 80 votes.

[BraveSirRobin]

3 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Oh yes they will, when they're already current paid users, you'd have to be funded from another planet to ignore a tidal wave like that.

lol. No, they don’t.  If you tell someone you have no intention of buying their next product, they are going to completely ignore your opinion about that product.  Period.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Bring out the new formula coka cola plz.

[BraveSirRobin]

2 minutes ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

Do tell.    And the good reasons for ignoring your current customer base are? 

Korea finished dead last.

With only 80 votes.

Because the forum is only a tiny fraction of their customer base. Capeesh?

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

9 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Polls on this forum are completely useless.  Most of the people who buy these games never visit the forum.

And yet those who do spoke quite clearly..

[BraveSirRobin]

Just now, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

And yet those who do spoke quite clearly..

And were ignored.  

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

7 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

And were ignored.  For good reasons.

 

1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Because the forum is only a tiny fraction of their customer base. 

We agree they are a sampling of the larger customer base.  And what can we learn from sampling?

[[CPT]Crunch]

Not the way the real world works, see how long any business survives with that attitude.  Your customer base is limited to begin with, and losing established customers on any sort of mass scale will do the gravest of harm.   You ain't doing them any favors, damaging in fact.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Your "good reasons " argument is not very convincing.    

[BraveSirRobin]

Just now, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

 

We agree they are a sampling of the larger customer base.  And what can we learn from sampling?

No, we don’t agree.  They’ve obviously done market research that is not available to us.  That’s why they ignored the forum poll.

[Gambit21]

7 hours ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

Do tell.    And the good reasons for ignoring your current customer base are? 

Korea finished dead last.

With only 80 votes.

 

With respect, this is not difficult to figure out.

Korea allows the team to take a step that isn't so far removed from what they've been doing as to present along with massive engine upgrades, an insurmountable amount of global technical hurdles. 

 

Korea is allowing them to present something new and fresh, while keeping the Russian fans happy with the later war Russian props, the MiG 15, while appealing to a Western audience with the Sabre, Corsair and others. All while laying the groundwork for adding carrier tech in a way that doesn't push them to get it up and running with the very next release. They can release Carriers for Korea when they're ready (assuming that is indeed their plan) and perfect the technology.

 

Other than CBI (which would have been the other...and both of our favorite...options), I can hardly think of a smarter move than Korea.

Nothing they could have done would have appealed to everyone, but of those possibilities I think Korea is the smartest, or second smartest.

We've known for a long time that Daniel wanted to go to Korea, I pointed this out almost 2 years ago...so nothing here is a surprise.

Korea was a foregone conclusion. Remember they're a Russian team...why on earth WOULDN'T they get the MiG 15 up and running?

No-brainer.

 

Just the MiG vs Sabre aspect alone is compelling, nevermind all of the mud-moving possibilities, and (hopefully) Panthers and carriers later.

It's all good, and this development cycle just means that when PTO does come, it will be that much better for all of the groundwork being done here.

[BraveSirRobin]

5 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Not the way the real world works, see how long any business survives with that attitude.  Your customer base is limited to begin with, and losing established customers on any sort of mass scale will do the gravest of harm.   You ain't doing them any favors, damaging in fact.

Yes, it is how the real world works.  They have to make tough decisions and do what they feel is best.  You refuse to buy it.  Ok.  They are going to stop listening to you.  That is how it works in the real world.

[BraveSirRobin]

7 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Talking about "Forgotten" Sicily/Med is a great example...this is little known in the USA comparatively speaking, outside of history buffs.

I've been into aviation since I was a kid and I personally couldn't tell you much about it it. Thus I'm not interested in it 'shrug'

It's large gap in my knowledge, but the point is that at least in the U.S. I'm not equating my experience/knowledge to everyone on the planet, I'm saying that around here at least, I'm the rule rather than the exception. So that's a pretty good chunk of the West at any rate. 

 

I never saw a movie as a kid dealing the the Med, or a TV show, or a documentary. Meanwhile I saw/read plenty on the Battle of Britain. 

In any case, they're (wisely IMO) not doing Sicily so might as well put it out of your head.  More 109's and 190's is not a selling point...that's financial suicide at this juncture.

They'll be left in the dust. Korea is smart, PTO is smart. 

 

So then where is the demand for Sicily greater than the Battle of Britain? (which nobody is pounding down 1C's door for)

Not over here. 

Talk about forgotten, Rome was captured on June 4,1944.  Everyone found out on June 5th.  For some reason it was totally forgotten one day later.

[SkylyTeacher]

Would you guys choose to upgrade the engine for bos or port the planes and maps from bos into the new bok?
About when will you start working on this?
Almost every il2 player wants to fly FW190A8R2/R8 to intercept B17s
Or to fight the Luftwaffe in a Mustang that can fire M20 APIs.
Or restore the semi-armour-piercing incendiary shells of the Sispano gun.
And all this requires your new engine.
Of course, it wouldn't be a bad idea to port the old one to the new one, after all I want to intercept B29s in a Ta152H!

[Aapje]

I don't think it makes sense to remake things right away. Too few would buy something too similar. Perhaps later on, with even more stuff in the new engine (a big advantage of the new engine is that it should also enable more features in the future).

[Enceladus828]

 

4 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

So then where is the demand for Sicily greater than the Battle of Britain?

Since we have many Battle of Britain games such as WOTR and CloD Blitz, the latter even has the Regia Aeronautica, I was just saying that people would be more interested in Sicily as it also gives a great Allied planeset with aircraft that can also be used for the prelude to D-Day. Also, I wasn’t suggesting for more 109s and 190s (those planes have been done to death and the Axis planeset would be the Italian birds), I was just making a suggestion that Sicily happen after Korea, then the Pacific and some planes from GBs that saw action at Sicily be ported over.

Edited June 28, 2024 by Enceladus828

[Sobilak]

15 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Agreed. @Bell, please refrain from making such statements going forward. WWII is still very much in the plans for the future. It's just going to be in this new series. 

Oh YEAH  Thanks LukeFF 😃😎💪👏🏆🏆🏆

[Koziolek]

6 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Because the forum is only a tiny fraction of their customer base. Capeesh?

You could say that about every other poll.

[Robli]

8 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I agree with the rest of your post, and possibly PTO would sell big in the USA, but I'm not so sure about Europe. Say "Iwo Jima" to the average Dutchman and they probably think you're sneezing.

 

But if you say Pearl Harbor or Midway, then I guess there is a high chance they have heard about it, at least due to Hollywood? Or if you say carrier battles during WWII, I think USA and Japan come to the mind of an average Dutchman also? Also, what comes to an average person on the street, what are the chances that they have heard of Battle or Monte Cassino, even though it was fought in Europe and lasted several months.

[Avimimus]

6 minutes ago, Robli said:

But if you say Pearl Harbor or Midway, then I guess there is a high chance they have heard about it, at least due to Hollywood? Or if you say carrier battles during WWII, I think USA and Japan come to the mind of an average Dutchman also? Also, what comes to an average person on the street, what are the chances that they have heard of Battle or Monte Cassino, even though it was fought in Europe and lasted several months.

 

There is an effect though:

 

As a Canadian, I was much more interested in a Bomber Command (night bombing) sim than in a WWII Pacific sim... However, I think it is a good thing that I've become more open to and interested in the Pacific theatre over time. If Pacific Fighters hadn't run into legal issues (trademark nonsense) and had been a bit more polished as a result, I have a feeling I'd be even more interested in the Pacific by now.

 

Come to think of it - I might know more about Eastern Europe in WWII simply because the winters make it easier to imagine (I've yet to go to the tropics, but Russians, Finns and Scandinavians are about the only people who do winter 'well' in movies and games). Weird eh?

[CountZero]

9 hours ago, Bell said:

When a WWII developer develops postwar things,look at war thunder.

 

 

Yes i know about their streams and it was clear even before that that only option that fits is Korea, and where do they say its prop based ? What Han say is not prop based.