Moza Force Feedback joystick??

[Aapje]

 

 

 

Moza is a Chinese company that has been selling sim racing gear since 2021, where they've been very succesful, especially in the lower/mid end of the direct drive market. So they are experienced at doing FFB. 

 

On their twitter, they posted: "Something revolutionary is coming soon.  A game-changer is taking flight at the FlightSimExpo. Stay tuned for more!"

 

The pictures I posted came from a forum and it is unknown where they come from, but they appear legitimate.

Edited June 21, 2024 by Aapje

[SR-F_Winger]

will be interesting to see what someone says when he got their hands on one.
Especially in regards to effects quality. Hardware is the one thing with FFB Bases. More important are IMHO the effects. And they are awesome with the Rhino.

[Aapje]

The same thing is an issue with FFB in sim racing, where the software effects also matter a lot. Moza has been doing well on that front, so I expect them to get it right.

 

It may take a little time to get everything tuned correctly, but the nice thing about software improvements is that you don't have to buy new hardware to get those improvements.

[Aapje]

 

[Aapje]

 

So that's also their throttle and rudder.

[SR-F_Winger]

He says 9 newton in force? That pretty weak thou.
Rhino does 5Kg wich only slightly decreases with heavy use due to heat thanks to the excellent cooling in the rhino.
Also in the software there is only settings for simple telemetry forces.
No engine rumble, no gun rumble. no all the juicy goodness TelemFFB of the rhino has to offer.
 

Edited June 21, 2024 by SR-FWinger

[GVL224]

There is also FFBeast. On a joystick with a “lever” of 40 cm, the maximum load is 12 kg. On rail pedals the maximum load is about 30 kg.

[Aapje]

2 hours ago, SR-FWinger said:

He says 9 newton in force? That pretty weak thou.
Rhino does 5Kg wich only slightly decreases with heavy use due to heat thanks to the excellent cooling in the rhino.

 

The Rhino also claims 9 Nm in the manual, so it may be comparable. Ideally, we'd see a comparison by someone who has both.

 

Quote

No engine rumble, no gun rumble. no all the juicy goodness TelemFFB of the rhino has to offer.

 

Let's give them some time to improve the software. The Rhino and FFBeast also took quite some time for the hard- and software to be done.

 

[SR-F_Winger]

Yes, also agree the market has just started to be flooded with products. And thats a good thing for us simmers!
Took long enough thou since the MSFFB came out decades ago;)

[yakflyer007]

I think the patent for FFB was held by Immersion and that patent expired a couple years ago.  Probably takes that long to fully develop a new product.  I am still on my G940 but it is starting to show its age for sure with some of the axis starting to drift on there own. 

Edited June 22, 2024 by yakflyer007
change

[Aapje]

The patents were never the issue. 

Edited June 22, 2024 by Aapje

[Dagwoodyt]

The FFBeast is just a mirage right now unless you're in position to DIY.

Edited June 22, 2024 by Dagwoodyt

[GVL224]

1 час назад, Dagwoodyt сказал:

The FFBeast is just a mirage right now unless you're in position to DIY.

Why "mirage"?

[Dagwoodyt]

50 minutes ago, GVL224 said:

Why "mirage"?

Well, unless things have changed the only place I've seen FFBeasts is in a few YT promotional videos. There is no formalized delivery system that I am aware of and I don't know that they would clear customs in some locales. OTOH there seems to be a formalized delivery system for the Rhino and I've been given to understand that the Rhino is pretty likely to get through CBS. Moza, as another player in the game, would be welcome. Also, while the idea of high Nm FFB sticks is attractive, there are inherent safety concerns and how each manufacturer addresses those concerns will factor into the hoped for FFB comeback.

[GVL224]

1 час назад, Dagwoodyt сказал:

Well, unless things have changed the only place I've seen FFBeasts is in a few YT promotional videos. There is no formalized delivery system that I am aware of and I don't know that they would clear customs in some locales. OTOH there seems to be a formalized delivery system for the Rhino and I've been given to understand that the Rhino is pretty likely to get through CBS. Moza, as another player in the game, would be welcome. Also, while the idea of high Nm FFB sticks is attractive, there are inherent safety concerns and how each manufacturer addresses those concerns will factor into the hoped for FFB comeback.

Well, in this regard, yes, at the moment FFBeast is, so to speak, “handmade”, without any special guarantees or obligations.
The seller does not bear any obligations to the buyer other than performance at the time of receipt of the product and support with advice in the future. I am writing about myself.
Shipping by regular mail, can be arranged as a “gift”.

[ST_Catchov]

Dear M$, just bring back the Sidewinder FFB2 upgraded with 128 buttons, switches, dials and sliders. Better make a bigger base. 

[Aapje]

MS needs to support FFB in MSFS and bring back native FFB support to Windows & Xbox. They don't have to make FFB hardware themselves.

 

[Panzerlang]

@Panzerlang

Does it shutdown to protect against over-heat in sustained-turn dogfights?@MOZARacing

32 minutes ago

Our MCLS technology does not overheat during dogfights

[MAJORgoonMADLOU]

24 minutes ago, Panzerlang said:

@Panzerlang

Does it shutdown to protect against over-heat in sustained-turn dogfights?@MOZARacing

32 minutes ago

Our MCLS technology does not overheat during dogfights

I dont know. But I have the Moza R9 steering base for my racing setup and have played for it for 5 hours straight with no overheating issues.  The unit does heat up after a few hours but so far the FFb has not diminished or shutdown after 5 hours.  Accordingly  I can't imagine there being any over heating problem with their flight system which would generally involve a lot less stress then racing sims ffb.

[Panzerlang]

1 hour ago, MAJORgoonMADLOU said:

I dont know. But I have the Moza R9 steering base for my racing setup and have played for it for 5 hours straight with no overheating issues.  The unit does heat up after a few hours but so far the FFb has not diminished or shutdown after 5 hours.  Accordingly  I can't imagine there being any over heating problem with their flight system which would generally involve a lot less stress then racing sims ffb.

The reason they don't overheat in racing sims is the turns aren't sustained like they can be in ariel combat. My Fanatec never overheated either but my Brunner stick certainly did. Over-priced piece of crap that it is. Instead of implementing a cooling system they simply programmed the software to hobble the hardware when it got hot.

[MAJORgoonMADLOU]

 

5 hours ago, Panzerlang said:

The reason they don't overheat in racing sims is the turns aren't sustained like they can be in ariel combat. My Fanatec never overheated either but my Brunner stick certainly did. Over-priced piece of crap that it is. Instead of implementing a cooling system they simply programmed the software to hobble the hardware when it got hot.

Ok. I wonder how much the Moza flight setup is going to cost?  At any rate i have two old Microsoft ffB Joysticks that are still working perfectly as well as my throttle and pedals.  Im pushing 70 so I may not live long enough to ever need anything else   But if  Moza has much better ffb than my Microsoft sticks I may upgrade if the price is reasonable. 

[Aapje]

They just opened preorders. $550 / €600 for the base. Delivery in 4-6 weeks. Sooner than I expected.

[Aapje]

They also sell a stick for $169 and whatever that is in euros (199?). Looking forward to the reviews.

[Dagwoodyt]

The price seems almost too good to be true. Though the base is supposedly compatible with multiple jstick brands I don't know that I would be able to use it with my VKB MCGU grip. Software compatibility with IL-2 GB is also an unknown. I will wait to see some competent reviews before placing an order.

[Dagwoodyt]

Has Moza ever been in contact with the GB Team? Their base looks interesting.

 

[Aapje]

In this case there is an extra reason to wait, since we get a choice between this and Winwing. But I personally like to wait anyway, so I know what I'm getting into.

 

@Dagwoodyt That seems very unlikely, since they got the IL-2 logo wrong. 

[Dagwoodyt]

5 minutes ago, Aapje said:

In this case there is an extra reason to wait, since we get a choice between this and Winwing. But I personally like to wait anyway, so I know what I'm getting into.

 

@Dagwoodyt That seems very unlikely, since they got the IL-2 logo wrong. 

Exactly why some clarification from the GB Team would be appreciated.

[MAJORgoonMADLOU]

15 minutes ago, Aapje said:

In this case there is an extra reason to wait, since we get a choice between this and Winwing. But I personally like to wait anyway, so I know what I'm getting into.

 

@Dagwoodyt That seems very unlikely, since they got the IL-2 logo wrong. 

Its a Chinese company. Maybe their translation software got it wrong? 

[Dagwoodyt]

Absent any input from the GB Team, anyone who pre-orders the Moza base can pose questions via Moza's email. Would seem that providing a unit to the GB Team would be a good busines move, assuming Moza hasn't already done so. I also think that Moza could easily provide an adapter that would allow use of VKB grips similar to the adapter that VPForce provides as an accessory for the Rhino.

[Aapje]

1 hour ago, MAJORgoonMADLOU said:

Its a Chinese company. Maybe their translation software got it wrong? 

 

It wasn't text. They put a logo for IL-2 1946 on their web page.

[Aapje]

Note that Virpil announced that they are working on FFB. Seems likely that they just started with designing, so no actual product soon.

[GVL224]

13 часов назад, Aapje сказал:

Note that Virpil announced that they are working on FFB. Seems likely that they just started with designing, so no actual product soon.

But a new handle “in metal” has already been presented
Many FFBeast users are already lining up to buy a new handle from VirPil.

[Aapje]

It does look nice, but it doesn't tell us anything about how far they are with a FFB offering.

[GVL224]

3 часа назад, Aapje сказал:

It does look nice, but it doesn't tell us anything about how far they are with a FFB offering.

I can only say one thing, the representative of VirPil has been in the Russian-language FFBeast chats for a very long time.

 

[Youtch]

I cannot figure out how a fanless system could potentially work for flight simmers.

 

In terms of physics, resistance brings heat.

 

Continuous resistance will build heat, and if there is no system to reduce heat, the heat will keep on building till it overheats, hence the absolute key function of fans in Rhino and FFBeast.

 

I am afraid Moza might think that a stick is like a wheel and it keeps on moving on one side and then the other, never keeping too long in one position, and they don t understand the concept of rate fight, or planes requiring constant load.

 

If there only reference for flight sim is warthunder as they were showing at FSEXPO, they might have done some wrong assumptions in their design.

 

Hopefully I am wrong, and they do have a magic trick to tackle the heating problem.

 

Only stress test will tell us if Moza produced something good, or it is another piece of crap like Brunner.

[Aapje]

Yeah, I'm also doubtful about no-fan designs.

[Dagwoodyt]

How many fans are furnished as stock in the Rhino and FFBeast?

[GVL224]

35 минут назад, Dagwoodyt сказал:

How many fans are furnished as stock in the Rhino and FFBeast?

There are no cooling fans in FFBeast, except for the fan in the power supply.

[Aapje]

It can also be preordered from a UK shop: https://abruzzi-official.co.uk/shop/?filter_brand=moza-flight

[Panzerlang]

8 hours ago, Aapje said:

It can also be preordered from a UK shop: https://abruzzi-official.co.uk/shop/?filter_brand=moza-flight

They have some good mounting options for it, though I suspect the desk-clamp one will lead to some 'interesting' outcomes. Tee hee. "Hey honey, I need a new desk...an industrial one this time." 😄

I don't trust their statement about it not over-heating however. If it had a fan I might have been prepared to give it a try but it doesn't, so I won't.