Aircraft Update June 2024: TF 6.5 Lancaster

[Buzzsaw]

Hello All

 

The Lancaster Mk B.I is coming along well.

 

Work on the external is finished, damage model and cockpit underway.

 

Some images:

 

 

As mentioned in previous posts, the aircraft will the centerpiece of the TF 6.5 mini DLC which will use the DIEPPE map and which will include a number of new models of existing aircraft types, including heavy fighters and bombers.  Module will also include features such as on board radar systems and other electronic systems related to the night environment.

 

This will be the first of a number of aircraft updates.

[FTC_Kurse]

ERMERGERD!!!!!

[Missionbug]

Superb work, congratulations to all involved on a great model, looking forward to seeing it in sim.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[BladeMeister]

Looking nice, she's a big dame. Keep up the good work TF.

 

S!Blade<><

[Minstrel]

Hot cakes on release, no doubt!!

[Blitzen]

More than ready!

[agile_aardvark]

Outstanding.

I’m rooting for TF, I hope they pull this off.

 

Thanks for the update.

[ACG_Dickie]

WOW!

 

Come on then who is going to build the Dambusters landscape and bouncing bomb physics?  :D

[Buzzsaw]

11 hours ago, ACG_Dickie said:

WOW!

 

Come on then who is going to build the Dambusters landscape and bouncing bomb physics?  😄

As we have mentioned, we have as one of our longer term goals, the building of an expanded size Northwest Europe map.

 

This would extend from Eastern Britain where the 8th Air Force and Bomber Command were historically based, eastwards to include Northern France, Belgium, Holland and Western Germany.

 

The map would be at least 600 X 600 km... and possibly 800 X 800... so potentially could include Berlin... and certainly would include the area hit in the Dambusters missions.

 

The map would allow for both day and night Strategic bombing campaigns, as well as a 1940 Blitzkrieg DLC, and in addition, 'Bridge too Far', 'Battle of the Bulge' and 'Crossing of the Rhine' DLC's.

 

But this map is a huge project, and will need lots of man hours to complete.

 

Fortunately a lot of the work does not require a high level of skill...  just a decent knowledge of the game's Full Mission Builder to allow the building of roads and placement of vegetation and/or buildings... and/or Photoshop skills to help with texturing.

 

We are always looking for people who want to join our map team... so if this sounds interesting... 😉

[Mysticpuma]

15 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

This will be the first of a number of aircraft updates.

Hi Buzzsaw, thanks for the images. Nice to see the Lancaster progressing well. Not sure if this helps, but here's some reference audio I shot in Norfolk in 2017:

 

 

I know we have to be happy with what we get, and I notice you mention aircraft updates, but we are now in the sixth month of 2024, the expectation is the next Module is to be released in December 2024, but there is nothing reported about that?

Can we get an honest appraisal of where TFS are with Virtual Reality (still game killing crashes reported(in posts on here)), True Sky and where that development and integration is (especially shaders which you have mentioned will be the last fix needed) and finally Speedtree which has been in beta forever and no progress shared.

 

I would just hope with 6-months left to go, there would be a lot more information to share.

 

Cheers, Mysticpuma

[Trooper117]

Good effort so far team!... 

[Dagwoodyt]

Wonder why the "June 2024" images weren't just added to the original TF 6.5 announcement topic.

[Blitzen]

( Posted originally on Face book today.)

For those with VR and Steam this is a fascinating recreation ( with real audio) of a BBC covered raid on Berlin in a Lancaster in 1944. The interior views are quite revealing and the VR ability to "walk through fuselage walls makes for some fascinating "outside the aircraft "during flight! Here's a video that hints at the immersion : https://www.google.com/search...

Edited June 11, 2024 by Blitzen

[BOO]

8 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Hi Buzzsaw, thanks for the images. Nice to see the Lancaster progressing well. Not sure if this helps, but here's some reference audio I shot in Norfolk in 2017:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Norfolk? Helluva zoom lens you must have 🙂

Edited June 11, 2024 by BOO

[BladeMeister]

9 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

 

 

I know we have to be happy with what we get, and I notice you mention aircraft updates, but we are now in the sixth month of 2024, the expectation is the next Module is to be released in December 2024, but there is nothing reported about that?

Can we get an honest appraisal of where TFS are with Virtual Reality (still game killing crashes reported(in posts on here)), True Sky and where that development and integration is (especially shaders which you have mentioned will be the last fix needed) and finally Speedtree which has been in beta forever and no progress shared.

 

I would just hope with 6-months left to go, there would be a lot more information to share.

 

Cheers, Mysticpuma

Your not wrong to ask this.

 

S!Blade<><

[No.54_Reddog]

Just my opinion but it looks like a toy model. The DCS lanc looks far better IMO.

[Dagwoodyt]

52 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

Just my opinion but it looks like a toy model. The DCS lanc looks far better IMO.

The DCS module is the inevitable comparison. I have no idea what level of detail TF aspires to, but it would seem reasonable to expect the TF Lanc sometime in the 2030's even if they are not contemplating anything close to what is addressed in the DCS Lanc videos. Why a Lanc update before B-17 news when the B-17 is a far more time-sensitive project?😕

[Enceladus828]

2 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

Just my opinion but it looks like a toy model. The DCS lanc looks far better IMO.

It’s still a WIP man, I don’t know if it’s been imported yet.

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I have no idea what level of detail TF aspires to, but it would seem reasonable to expect the TF Lanc sometime in the 2030's even if they are not contemplating anything close to what is addressed in the DCS Lanc videos. 

No, we’ll be getting it next year. 
 

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Why a Lanc update before B-17 news when the B-17 is a far more time-sensitive project?😕

I dunno, it may be because the Lanc cockpit could be in a slightly more presentable state than the B-17 stations. Buzzsaw did say that this was the first of many aircraft updates so with that we’d be seeing more updates soon. Don’t see why you’re being so critical here 

Edited June 12, 2024 by Enceladus828
Added better clarity

[No.54_Reddog]

10 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

It’s still a WIP man, I don’t know if it’s been imported yet.

 

If its good enough to share then it's good enough to have an opinion on no? I don't care whether it's been imported or not, from the images shown I don't think it looks that good. If once it's imported it looks totally different I can change my opinion. But based on what's being presented to me, it doesn't have me rushing out to preorder this. (Yes, I know, that isn't possible).

[Dagwoodyt]

It's comforting to see that this isn't enough to fill the TF plate:

Key Features

•       18 new flyable types and variants are added with FORTRESSES AND FOCKE-WULFS – DIEPPE, allowing the players to experience aerial conflict over the English Channel from in the autumn of 1941 to the culminating moment of the Dieppe Raid in August of 1942.

[Buffo002]

I don't understand some negative individuals. As far as I know, we were shown pictures of the Lancer, which is not yet finished, it was shown where the work is now ... when before TF did not publish anything, the same individuals or the majority shouted to show them what TF is working on and what has been done so far, now again he shouts that it is slowly imperfect, even though everyone knows that it is a work in progress and not finished, and besides, it is the middle of June and the deadline was at the end of the year, so why does someone have to dig and criticize again. I do not get it.  

 

Yes, the work on the interior is finished, but the pictures are only 2 from one place from the cockpit, but still the pictures are not the best quality ... otherwise I don't want to show the rest of the interior ... like a surprise I think so. And moreover, the interior view is not what will be in the game (there will be more details), it is a view for modeling the cockpit

 

Edited June 12, 2024 by Buffo002

[Mysticpuma]

42 minutes ago, Buffo002 said:

I don't understand some negative individuals. As far as I know, we were shown pictures of the Lancer, which is not yet finished, it was shown where the work is now ... when before TF did not publish anything, the same individuals or the majority shouted to show them what TF is working on and what has been done so far, now again he shouts that it is slowly imperfect, even though everyone knows that it is a work in progress and not finished, and besides, it is the middle of June and the deadline was at the end of the year, so why does someone have to dig and criticize again. I do not get it.  

 

Yes, the work on the interior is finished, but the pictures are only 2 from one place from the cockpit, but still the pictures are not the best quality ... otherwise I don't want to show the rest of the interior ... like a surprise I think so. And moreover, the interior view is not what will be in the game (there will be more details), it is a view for modeling the cockpit

 

 

But (and I am not criticising the Lancaster if you read my replies), anyone would think that the module coming out in December would be the one they would promote before the v6.5 as (most) forum members would think that v6.0 would be much more complete and offer a lot more possibilities to showcase? Six months left and still no news on VR, Speedtree integration and Truesky fixes? Just puzzling, but I did say I appreciated the Lanc. pics.

[Buffo002]

Just now, Mysticpuma said:

 

But (and I am not criticising the Lancaster if you read my replies), anyone would think that the module coming out in December would be the one they would promote before the v6.5 as (most) forum members would think that v6.0 would be much more complete and offer a lot more possibilities to showcase? Six months left and still no news on VR, Speedtree integration and Truesky fixes? Just puzzling, but I did say I appreciated the Lanc. pics.

That link is not for you.  

[Buzzsaw]

The images we are showing are not in-game... so they won't look as good as the final product... the texturing etc. is just base.  In 4k with a detailed skin the aircraft will look stunning.

 

Regarding comparisons with the DCS prototype:  (which at this point is not officially yet planned to be added...)

 

I know the DCS modeler, and his model is well over 500,000 polys...  the model in CLIFFS will be approx. 150,000 polys.  DCS may allow the huge number of polys, TF could do so as well... but that number of polys also means more processing for the CPU/GPU... which means there cannot be a lot of aircraft in the air simultaneously... especially not up close as would be seen in large formations of bombers, otherwise frame rates go to zero quickly.  CLIFFS has as our design focus, the intent to allow a lot of aircraft in the air... mass formations... and huge numbers online.  So we try to keep the poly numbers down.  We are gradually increasing our allowable aircraft polys as PC's improve, but are still focused on our goal of playability and creating a mass aircraft environment.

 

When it comes to cockpits, the restrictions on number of polys is not as stringent, so we can go higher in the numbers... and for that reason, our cockpits look very good in comparison to DCS.

 

There is also the factor heavy poly 3d models take more time to model...  The DCS Lanc modeler has been working on that model for over 5 years.  With TF's modelers already having the limitation of working part time to create our models, high poly models would nearly double the time required.

 

While the overall number of polys used to model an aircraft may be higher in DCS, their damage model is actually less complex.   CLIFFS has more detail in this area.  The other factor in how the model reacts to events in the game... our gunnery physics are also still superior... both our kinetic and our explosive effects remain tops of all sims.  Do some tests in DCS and see how poorly the game models explosive effects... they don't even have shock waves from explosions yet.

 

Everything in game design is a tradeoff between optimum visual quality and playability.  DCS is taking one route... TF is taking another.

[zzzxxxxzzz]

21 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

 Don’t see why you’re being so critical here 

 

You really don't know why, I have it quite clear. Whatever they say, he will criticize it

[Mysticpuma]

@Buzzsaw Just to clarify, is this a TFS model or is it a downsized DCS model from  the DCS modeller? 

[Dagwoodyt]

Will be great to experience the Lanc someday in both TF and DCS flavors, especially in VR🙏

[Buzzsaw]

40 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

@Buzzsaw Just to clarify, is this a TFS model or is it a downsized DCS model from  the DCS modeller? 

This is a TFS model... very different requirements.

 

And what you seem to be suggesting... i.e. that any TFS model could be considered 'downsized' when compared to a DCS model... not really the case as I have explained above... our models may not have as many polys as a DCS model, but they are more complex in several other ways.

 

Bottom line:  We will finish and incorporate our Lanc into CLIFFS and it will function as designed in our game.

[Mysticpuma]

26 minutes ago, Buzzsaw said:

This is a TFS model... very different requirements.

 

And what you seem to be suggesting... i.e. that any TFS model could be considered 'downsized' when compared to a DCS model... not really the case as I have explained above... our models may not have as many polys as a DCS model, but they are more complex in several other ways.

 

Bottom line:  We will finish and incorporate our Lanc into CLIFFS and it will function as designed in our game.

Ok thanks. I wasn't being disrespectful when I said 'downsized', literally the removal of 350,000 polys would suggest the size isn't the same. The FM and DM will no doubt make up for it. 

Edited June 12, 2024 by Mysticpuma

[Dagwoodyt]

How many polys are required to have vast armadas of Lancs flying in the night. Any VR hmd should be adequate if the player is mainly doing several hours of collision avoidance and monitoring radar scopes. Then again oled/micro oled displays are probably to be preferred.🤔

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Lanc has always been one of favorite bombers, built several models as kid and flew the Dambusters game on Commodore 64😁 Great to see good progress on it.

 

 

[=RS=Funkie]

Amazing update images! Very exciting!

May I ask some questions (apologies if this has already been asked/answered elsewhere)

• What are the details of the Radar systems in this update? Was the H2S System operational during the timeframe of Dieppe? Or are we talking about systems like ASV Mark II? Or is it not a radar system for the Lancaster? - perhaps the Lichtenstein B/C fitted bf110s of the Germans?
• I'm also curious about other night electronic devices you mentioned.
• Regarding night operations. How realistically is the German ground radar system modelled? - I've read accounts of the radar-guided master control search beams, with the other manually operated searchlights converging on that location. Is that how it'll work?

[Lorena_Scout]

On 6/12/2024 at 6:33 PM, Buzzsaw said:

 

our gunnery physics are also still superior... both our kinetic and our explosive effects remain tops of all sims.  Do some tests in DCS and see how poorly the game models explosive effects... they don't even have shock waves from explosions yet.

 

word!

 

 

Edited June 13, 2024 by Lorena_Scout

[Dagwoodyt]

40 minutes ago, Lorena_Scout said:

word!

 

From 2011?

A supremacy that has made all the difference👍

[Buzzsaw]

17 hours ago, =RS=Funkie said:

Amazing update images! Very exciting!

May I ask some questions (apologies if this has already been asked/answered elsewhere)

• What are the details of the Radar systems in this update? Was the H2S System operational during the timeframe of Dieppe? Or are we talking about systems like ASV Mark II? Or is it not a radar system for the Lancaster? - perhaps the Lichtenstein B/C fitted bf110s of the Germans?
• I'm also curious about other night electronic devices you mentioned.
• Regarding night operations. How realistically is the German ground radar system modelled? - I've read accounts of the radar-guided master control search beams, with the other manually operated searchlights converging on that location. Is that how it'll work?

We haven't made the official announcement for TF 6.5 yet.

 

When we do that, we will provide the details of the new systems and the rest of the aircraft.

[BOO]

8 hours ago, Lorena_Scout said:

word!

 

 

 

Old but it remains a very impressive video. This was one of the things I saw in 2014/15 that made me take up simming again after loosing interest around 2006. 

[FTC_Rostic]

On 6/14/2024 at 9:33 AM, BOO said:

 

Old but it remains a very impressive video. This was one of the things I saw in 2014/15 that made me take up simming again after loosing interest around 2006. 

Yep, but in BLITZ patches TFS removed one very nice damage effect for sake of performance. If you remember there were effect of damaged aircraft surface skin swaying in the wind. Now it is just static. Not a big deal for game play as pilot, but was very cool to show it in video clips or observing that when flying a tail gunner
I was wrong. Effect still there

Edited June 15, 2024 by FTC_Rostic

[Dagwoodyt]

I guess TF has been around longer than I realized!

[Lorena_Scout]

5 hours ago, FTC_Rostic said:

Yep, but in BLITZ patches TFS removed one very nice damage effect for sake of performance. If you remember there were effect of damaged aircraft surface skin swaying in the wind. Now it is just static. Not a big deal for game play as pilot, but was very cool to show it in video clips or observing that when flying a tail gunner

Now that effect could be back right? I  mean, we have fast enough Pc for that nowadays 

 

Also, the surface skin here 0:38

 

 0

Edited June 14, 2024 by Lorena_Scout

[Peachy9]

It was still there 18 months ago