The Little Brother (IAR-80)

[Vendigo]

Thanks for updating the campaign! 

Btw, are there any special tricks to engine management of IAR? I couldn't reduce the throttle when landing (it was still at 30% although the handle was at zero) and couldn't turn the engine OFF either.. 

 

Edited April 2 by Vendigo

[Sandmarken]

33 minutes ago, Vendigo said:

Thanks for updating the campaign! 

Btw, are there any special tricks to engine management of IAR? I couldn't reduce the throttle when landing (it was still at 30% although the handle was at zero) and couldn't turn the engine OFF either.. 

 

I have not had big problems landing the IAR 80. I usually force it down a bit and pull the stick back on touchdown to use the skid to brake. Im no expert in the plane. I find it very difficult to fly compared to other planes in il2.

[AndreiTomescu]

To reduce thrust, manage the throttle to zero, and the pitch increase as to reduce rpm. 

I usually reduce speed slowly as I approach the airfield, and put thrust to about 20% and set pitch as to have about 1500 rpm. And down you go.....try to land at a speed of about 170km/h

[AndreiTomescu]

7 hours ago, Vendigo said:

couldn't reduce the throttle when landing (it was still at 30% although the handle was at zero)

You couldn't reduce the engine rpm. If the engine's throttle is at zero, no fuel goes in except the fuel from the relanti admission of the carburetor. And that's just to keep the engine idle.

But depending of your airspeed AND propeller pitch, the engine's gonna turn, none the less. Just like in a car, except the fact that you can't put the gear completely on neutral (feather propeller is about that)

The propeller pitch is kind of a gear shift, you use it to adjust traction (by the propeller, which is the traction weels) and engine rpd at a given fuel burning (the throttle is the accelerator pedal). The amount of "pedal" you give to the engine is showen by the atm. dial (more pressure=more fuel=more power)

You can see that without a governor, that is a device to adjust the pitch automatically for the best rpm depending on the throttle amount, the pilots had a lot of work with the engine. And that was quite extra stress during an engagement.

Usually you set the throttle to a desired atm, and adjust the pitch for the optimal rpm of a given plane. And that have to be adjusted all the time, depending on the situation: climb, dive, altitude, etc

 

[AndreiTomescu]

If you have those technical helps activated on the right side of the screen, well, those are good mainly if you fly with automatic engine management on from the difficulty settings.

[Vendigo]

@AndreiTomescu thank you for the detailed explanation! I must also manually control the propeller pitch, if I understand it correctly.

 

52 minutes ago, AndreiTomescu said:

If you have those technical helps activated on the right side of the screen, well, those are good mainly if you fly with automatic engine management on from the difficulty settings.

 

I was surprised because I do have some technical helps activated, but they are always ON, but all the other planes I tried, I never seem to care about the propeller pitch.

Why is IAR different?   

Edited April 2 by Vendigo

[AndreiTomescu]

because the old crow doesn't have a propeller governor.

1 hour ago, Vendigo said:

I must also manually control the propeller pitch

yes , if you want full realism. if not, activate automatic engine management

On 6/3/2024 at 7:56 PM, AndreiTomescu said:

they tried to buy the license for a constant speed propeller in '38-'39, but to no avail. In parallel tried to develop one at home for the K9 engine (failure) but also for the K14 engine (almost done, but....no)   There was some developed for a reductor for the K14 engine, in the '40 was ready, because otherwise the engine developed huge vibration and the cell (fuselage) failed. It was ready for the Odessa campaign.  Rest of the developments were posponed because marchall Antonescu decided to rely on the new german ally for supplying aircraft, the Bf 109. The IAR factory produced only a limited nr of IAR 80/81, because the rest of the production was shifted towards repairing and assembling Bf 109s.

this is the history why it lacked this.

it seems this device was not a piece of cake for that time.

1 hour ago, Vendigo said:

manually control the propeller pitch

best to put it on an axis. your life 's gonna be sooo much easier

Edited April 2 by AndreiTomescu

[Vendigo]

15 minutes ago, AndreiTomescu said:

best to put it on an axis. your life 's gonna be sooo much easier

 

Thanks, and is this the propeller pitch control?

Spoiler

 

[Sandmarken]

23 minutes ago, Vendigo said:

 

Thanks, and is this the propeller pitch control?

  Hide contents

 

That's it! The manual pitch makes this plane among the most complicated to fly. A tendency to yaw a lot and no yaw trim is also noticeable. And, of course, the fact that there isn't really a slower fighter isn't helping. A good challenge compared to the 109 and 190, which usually have some edge over Soviet fighters.

[Jaegermeister]

5 hours ago, Sandmarken said:

That's it! The manual pitch makes this plane among the most complicated to fly. A tendency to yaw a lot and no yaw trim is also noticeable. And, of course, the fact that there isn't really a slower fighter isn't helping. A good challenge compared to the 109 and 190, which usually have some edge over Soviet fighters.

 

It's definitely an underdog, which makes it a great challenge to do well in.

[Ace_Pilto]

It's a plane, it has guns. Be realistic with it, it's not a world beater but it can beat you.

[AndreiTomescu]

15 hours ago, Sandmarken said:

there isn't really a slower fighter isn't helping

It's 20–30 km/h slower than the Bf 109E. And in 1943 the romanians were still using some of thoses, along side with the G's.

And it's slow, but not quite the slowest! look here: https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/ww2-aircraft-ranked-by-speed-fighters.php

it was the slowest on that battlefield, thou...

[AndreiTomescu]

it could have been much better. but the top brass decision to rely on the supplyed (and bought) Bf109's from germany killed this bird's future. if it had any

Edited April 3 by AndreiTomescu

[Sandmarken]

10 minutes ago, AndreiTomescu said:

It's 20–30 km/h slower than the Bf 109E. And in 1943 the romanians were still using some of thoses, along side with the G's.

And it's slow, but not quite the slowest! look here: https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/ww2-aircraft-ranked-by-speed-fighters.php

it was the slowest on that battlefield, thou...

It will be interesting to pair it up against the Il-15 biplane and early LaGG-3 we get with the next module. More of a fair match, maybe. I think the biggest weakness of this plane is the manual pitch more than anything. This extra and pretty big workload takes away awareness in combat situations. It does not help to have a good turn radius if you have to check the RPM more than the six o'clock. If this plane had a yaw trim and an RPM governor, it would be a pretty comfortable plane to fly.

[AndreiTomescu]

2 hours ago, Sandmarken said:

It will be interesting to pair it up against the Il-15 biplane and early LaGG-3 we get with the next module.

it would be a dream come true! May i take it as a little promise???? 😍

2 hours ago, Sandmarken said:

I think the biggest weakness of this plane is the manual pitch more than anything. This extra and pretty big workload takes away awareness in combat situations

so it was in real life

[Sandmarken]

20 minutes ago, AndreiTomescu said:

would be a dream come true! May i take it as a little promise???? 😍

I will be your tester when you make it 😄 

[LukeFF]

6 hours ago, AndreiTomescu said:

it could have been much better. but the top brass decision to rely on the supplyed (and bought) Bf109's from germany killed this bird's future. if it had any

 

It really should have been retired after 1941. After that it was wholly outdated against pretty much anything it came up against.

[Sandmarken]

3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

It really should have been retired after 1941. After that it was wholly outdated against pretty much anything it came up against.

From the research we gathered for this campaign, seems it had some success at least against the planes the Soviets sent on long-range maritime bombing. 

The Germans in Crimea were pleased with the Romanians and asked them to reinforce with more fighters and pilots. Even if they also demanded that the IAR 80s be fitted with bombs because they belives the performance wasn't good enough for it to be a fighter! 

 

[AndreiTomescu]

18 hours ago, LukeFF said:

It really should have been retired after 1941. After that it was wholly outdated against pretty much anything it came up against.

yes , yes, and not quite.

1. great deficit of volant material (planes) If you don't have cake, you eat bread (we have this saying)

2. It was a hard war, with great attrition. The germans promised a lot of BF-109, and provided quite scarcely. Second-hand older ones, and mostly planes made up from spare parts and assembled at Brasov, Romania. So, they had to use the outdated IAR

3. most important, it was a matter of propaganda and national pride.

4. the poor plane flew even after '44, especially for propaganda reasons (it was better to show pictures with a ingineous design, liberating the transilvanian skyes, then with the real workhorses: the german Bf109 that were actually doing the job)

but for our simulation purposes, it's quite a challenge.  Slow and hard to control the engine management, makes you less the ace in the sky, and more the scared boy trying to survive. Also, for the top virtual pilots here, brings an opportunity to prove themselves. So, imho, it's a great aquisition. Thank you, 1C Games!

[Ace_Pilto]

On 4/4/2025 at 2:53 AM, LukeFF said:

 

It really should have been retired after 1941. After that it was wholly outdated against pretty much anything it came up against.

You would have the entire Finnish airforce grounded by that metric.

[LukeFF]

11 hours ago, Ace_Pilto said:

You would have the entire Finnish airforce grounded by that metric.

 

Not at all. The early aircraft the Finns used were entirely adequate against the mid-30s aircraft the Soviets fielded against them. When newer aircraft like the Yaks and La-5s started being used in large numbers the Finns already knew they had to replace the older, stopgap stuff. 

 

Do also remember that they were trying to get 109s from the beginning of the Continuation War. They only flew the older stuff because they had no other choice. 

 

Romania was in a similar situation with the AR 80. It only continued on after 1941 because they had nothing better to replace it with in sufficient numbers. 

[Vendigo]

I have finished the campaign! Took me some time to get used to landing!

Thanksfully, the modifications are not locked, so I like to select the bomb loadout in missions and attack the ships. Btw, there's this specific bomb release system that you must activate before dropping the bombs. That "little brother" is a tricky plane! 

Btw, in the very first mission the IL-2 posed a real threat when they attacked us, but you have changed their logic so they just head for home after attacking the ship, right?

If I may suggest - making the IL-2's attack the player's flight for a few minutes before they head to base spices up this mission dramatically. 

Overall, a very solid campaign!      

 

Spoiler

 

 

[AndreiTomescu]

3 hours ago, Vendigo said:

activate before dropping the bombs. That "little brother" is a tricky plane! 

The bombing "function" was a feature added later. At least for the iar80. That's why you have to "activate" the bomb release function, it was an somehow improvised device. In reality you switched the guns trigger for shooting the guns OR release the ordinance. The engineers did their best. The iar81 was redesigned to be a fighter bombers, but they kept the system because it worked, it was tested.

 

3 hours ago, Vendigo said:

a very solid campaign

Sandmarken did again a tremendous job.

BTW, the missions are historically accurate, only that sometimes they combined/compiled different actual happenings.

So glad you enjoyed it, so did I. 

And the ending.....so poetic.

[Vendigo]

8 hours ago, AndreiTomescu said:

The bombing "function" was a feature added later. At least for the iar80. That's why you have to "activate" the bomb release function, it was an somehow improvised device. 

 

First time I used the standard button to drop the bombs, of course they didn't drop but I didn't know it at the moment. I didn't see the explosion so I thought the bombs must have failed to detonate due to too low altitude as the detonator didn't have enough time to engage or smth, then I proceeded to dogfight with the bombs still attached.

Only some time later I switched to the external view and saw I still had the bombs! This was fun.   

Edited April 26 by Vendigo

[Sandmarken]

@VendigoThank you, im very happy you liked the campaign! 

23 hours ago, Vendigo said:

Thanksfully, the modifications are not locked, so I like to select the bomb loadout in missions and attack the ships.

The historical fact is that the IAR 80 was sent to attack ships with just the MG and 20 mm cannons! Not sure how effective that would have been, but probably not very, since the Germans wanted the IAR 80 to be modified to carry bombs.

 

@AndreiTomescu is right! Most missions is in some way or another based on historical facts we coud dig up. What coud not be simulated is that the 49th woud fly between Sevastopol and Kerch landing along the way while patroling the black sea.

 

The IAR 80 is really a little brother. I do not think there is a more challenging plane to master in the game, maybe the Hs 129 with the similar engine! 

[Dutch2]

@Sandmarken Thanks for creating this campaign.

Being a beta tester I had the opportunity to fly the IAR80, I would btw never buy this exotic strange plane.  But woow, think this plane is one of the best looking 3d planes if you are using VR. Now with the biggest sales ever it's worth to buy this plane as these specific developers have finally create a plane not only for monitor use.  Think 1C should consider to go further with them and let them upgrade the other planes as some are lesser suited for VR use. 

 

One remark about this scripted campaign, is there an easy way to change to be active as an wingman only and not being the fightleader?   

[Sandmarken]

31 minutes ago, Dutch2 said:

One remark about this scripted campaign, is there an easy way to change to be active as an wingman only and not being the fightleader?   

If you go into the editor, you can pick one of the wingmen to be the "player" in its advance options. Then the leader will turn into an AI (you can change its level to make it fly better) i have not tried it, but i think it shoud work out for most missions. 

[Dutch2]

6 hours ago, Sandmarken said:

If you go into the editor, you can pick one of the wingmen to be the "player" in its advance options. Then the leader will turn into an AI (you can change its level to make it fly better) i have not tried it, but i think it shoud work out for most missions. 

Thanks for the help, it is working now, I’m not the flight leader anymore.  Because the plane is much lesser performer than all his opponents, I made all the pilots in my flight an ACE. 

[Sandmarken]

18 minutes ago, Dutch2 said:

Thanks for the help, it is working now, I’m not the flight leader anymore.  Because the plane is much lesser performer than all his opponents, I made all the pilots in my flight an ACE. 

You are right that the plane is not a great performer for a 1943 scenario! The fact that the 49th managed to do as well as they did, and they did it with mostly novice pilots, is impressive! That said, they would probably be fighting more twin-engine, long-range maritime attackers than fighters!