Proximity Trigger Does not work? (Behavior has changed)

[IckyATLAS]

It seems that my Proximity Trigger do not work anymore.

I had Proximity Trigger in (Further) mode between a plane and a vehicle, but it does not fire anymore.

It is triggered but does not fire.

I made multiple tests and it does not seem to work. I used them in the past and they did work well.

Anybody else has this problem?

Edited May 9, 2024 by IckyATLAS

[Jaegermeister]

 

 

@IckyATLAS, I haven't seen a problem with it, but I don't use "further" very often. What kind of vehicle?

 

 

Edited May 8, 2024 by Jaegermeister

[kraut1]

I use them with "further" (and closer) in general for all missions that I fly for my "wingmen warning messages".

And in general these messages are working with the current version too.

But "further" only for deactivating the wingmen warning messages.

So maybe I have not noticed the problem.

ADDED LATER: and I think I can remember that I heard the "Radar" message that planes are leaving in ... km. This would mean that "further" works.

I will check.

Edited May 8, 2024 by kraut1

[kraut1]

7 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

It seems that my Proximity Trigger do not work anymore.

I had Proximity Trigger in (Further) mode between a plane and a vehicle, but it does not fire anymore.

It is triggered but does not fire.

I made multiple tests and it does not seem to work. I used them in the past and they did work well.

Anybody else has this problem?

I have tested my "Wingmen Warning Messages" that include proximity / further  Triggers for deactivating wingmen messages when friendly planes are further than 2.5km away and "Radar" messages when enemy planes are closing and leaving 9miles / 12miles.

Everything worked in the test mission.

proximity-further2.Mission.zip

(without audio files)

Video:

video time 00:00:58 with nearby wingman correct "objective spotted range 6miles".

video time 00:01:31 proximity further fired message: "Ground control Radar signal 12miles moves away"

video time 00:02:53 - 00:03:50 wingman circling over airfield away from player's plane correct no warning message (deactivated by proximity further)

video time 00:04:05 wingman again close to player's plane and message "objective spotted range 6miles".

 

ADDED LATER: And another test of the german version with proximity trigger / further ground object to player's plane to deactivate ground observer messages worked too.

Edited May 8, 2024 by kraut1

[IckyATLAS]

On 5/8/2024 at 8:19 AM, kraut1 said:

I have tested my "Wingmen Warning Messages" that include proximity / further  Triggers for deactivating wingmen messages when friendly planes are further than 2.5km away and "Radar" messages when enemy planes are closing and leaving 9miles / 12miles.

Everything worked in the test mission.

proximity-further2.Mission.zip 8.38 kB · 1 download

(without audio files)

Video:

video time 00:00:58 with nearby wingman correct "objective spotted range 6miles".

video time 00:01:31 proximity further fired message: "Ground control Radar signal 12miles moves away"

video time 00:02:53 - 00:03:50 wingman circling over airfield away from player's plane correct no warning message (deactivated by proximity further)

video time 00:04:05 wingman again close to player's plane and message "objective spotted range 6miles".

 

ADDED LATER: And another test of the german version with proximity trigger / further ground object to player's plane to deactivate ground observer messages worked too.

 

 

Thanks Kraut for sharing this, and it has been of help uncovering a very profound mystery.

I looked at your code and you use the Proximity Trigger with only one object (Plane here) and with the Coalition Parameter.

So I duplicated in your example one of your proximity trigger (with parameter "Closer" and object linked it to the vehicle and the Player Plane and added a Subtitle that displays a message when the proximity trigger fired. I set the distance to 3000 mts. I set your vehicle a little further on the map from the starting position of the Players plane to about 11'000 mts.

 

The behavior should be that the proximity trigger should fire only when the distance between the two objects is closer than 3'000 mts. 

Guess what?

 

The Proximity Trigger fired immediately as soon as it was triggered 5 sec after the start of the mission.

I was surprised say the least! Checked it a few times and yes it is so.

 

I then changed the parameter from closer to "Further".

Guess what?

 

NOTHING happened at all. I mean the plane did indeed start "Further than 3'000mt" and then closed in, overflying the object and then flew away again "Further than 3'000mts" and just nothing happened, the Trigger Proximity never fired.

 

Now my brain started melting down! Ten years of IL2 editor knowhow and I was at a loss. I know it happens always but this time it is different. What the heck!

 

Then I noticed that you had put in your proximity trigger the allied plane coalition to True. It is normal as you have only one object linked.  I did not check that info because when two or more entities are object linked the coalition parameter never mattered. And it has always been so.

Starting to doubt about my intellectual and memory abilities I also checked again to be sure Jim's IL2 bible and here is the excerpt for Proximity Trigger:

 

************

Input
A target link from another MCU or a message link from an object
Output
A target link to other MCUs that you want to trigger after object proximity detection
Object link to each object included in the proximity check
Note:
• If you object link the trigger to one object only, you must specify a coalition in the
advanced properties.
• If you object link the trigger to multiple objects, any coalition chosen in the
advanced properties is ignored. (ZHAT WAS TRUE BUT IS NOT TRUE ANYMORE)

*************

 

And I can confirm that this was right for a very long time.

I restarted working on my pet project the Kuban Wall recently after nearly a year of pause due to my lack of time.

But when I started again on it, I saw some weird behavior.

And this is due to a change in the coalition parameter precedence.

Now the Coalition Parameter has precedence even if you have more than one object linked together.

The problem here is that I never cared about it when duplicating or copying this proximity trigger and so I had the coalition  parameters checked here and there but did not bother as it had no effect.

You could say that the most rigorous code writing as if you do not use something it do not check it.

The devs probably changed this in one of the versions (no idea which one) because it suited them but I do not remind them telling us about it. We know their policy on this. The will do modifications on the Editor as they need, up to us to find out.

 

So now I unchecked the Coalitions in my small test in Krauts mission and all worked perfectly fine.

Hope devs don't change the logics like that too much like they did once for the MCU Set Value behavior that impacted a lot of my code (too much work so I waited), but then they corrected and reverted to the initial behavior so I did not need to do any change. But this time a have to clean up the coalition parameters in my Proximity triggers.

 

 

 

 

 

[kraut1]

37 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

• If you object link the trigger to multiple objects, any coalition chosen in the
advanced properties is ignored. (ZHAT WAS TRUE BUT IS NOT TRUE ANYMORE)

*************

 

And I can confirm that this was right for a very long time.

I restarted working on my pet project the Kuban Wall recently after nearly a year of pause due to my lack of time.

But when I started again on it, I saw some weird behavior.

 

The devs probably changed this in one of the versions (no idea which one) because it suited them but I do not remind them telling us about it. We know their policy on this. The will do modifications on the Editor as they need, up to us to find out.

 

If you just restarted working on a project, especially in the Kuban mountains.

Only for your information if you test your missions:

AI Behaviour in respect of the "Cover" command is currently sometimes (not always) a bit strange too.

Confirmed on 02.05.2024 by LukeFF:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/87809-ai-escort-flight-with-cover-linked-to-the-bombers-flyes-below-the-bombers-until-he-crashs-or-returns-to-base/?do=findComment&comment=1315445

 

 

[IckyATLAS]

4 hours ago, kraut1 said:

If you just restarted working on a project, especially in the Kuban mountains.

Only for your information if you test your missions:

AI Behaviour in respect of the "Cover" command is currently sometimes (not always) a bit strange too.

Confirmed on 02.05.2024 by LukeFF:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/87809-ai-escort-flight-with-cover-linked-to-the-bombers-flyes-below-the-bombers-until-he-crashs-or-returns-to-base/?do=findComment&comment=1315445

 

 

Correct I knew of this issue. It is easy as you can free escort and then get it back at will. It creates some additional work but can be resolved.

[kraut1]

52 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

Correct I knew of this issue. It is easy as you can free escort and then get it back at will. It creates some additional work but can be resolved.

Interesting, could you please explain a bit. Does that mean the Cover Command has been changed and is now working in another way and mission design has to be adapted? And it can be used in another way during flight?

 

 

[IckyATLAS]

Here is my understanding of how the MCU Cover works.

You can have say two flights with multiple planes. Flight A and Flight B.

You can then somewhere in your mission order one of them say Flight B to cover Flight A. This can happen any time as long as your flights are not too far apart. Generally inside a 10km bubble but I am not sure there is a fixed limit. In any case if they are too further apart it does not make sense.

You will use the MCU Cover to link them. Object Link Flight B and then Target link it to Flight A. You can activate or deactivate this MCU. When you deactivate it you free the two flights and later on you can reactivate it and again they will be linked.

 

[Jaegermeister]

4 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

 

You will use the MCU Cover to link them. Object Link Flight B and then Target link it to Flight A. You can activate or deactivate this MCU. When you deactivate it you free the two flights and later on you can reactivate it and again they will be linked.

 

 

So are you saying they have realized the Command Cover had to be terminated with a Force Complete-high and now you can activate and deactivate it with other MCUs? That would not require reworking old missions, but it would be an added feature and much easier.

[IckyATLAS]

5 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

So are you saying they have realized the Command Cover had to be terminated with a Force Complete-high and now you can activate and deactivate it with other MCUs? That would not require reworking old missions, but it would be an added feature and much easier.

Now you made me doubt. I found the mission where I did this kind of cover and uncover etc. and yes you are right you need the have a Force Complete to cancel instructions to the cover flight leader. I did also Deactivate the Cover MCU and Activate  it later on but the Deactivation was for controlling when the right moment was for Cover as there were multiple possibilities. Sorry for my fading memories.