Thrustmaster AVA joystick base

[Hoss]

Thrustmaster is supposed to publicly announce there new Joystick base tomorrow 

[HazMatt]

Thrustmaster has made themselves know as makers of garbage compared to WinWing, VKB, Virpil and others. I doubt this will be any different then the rest.

I for one will not be buying it.

 

I am hopeful that they do improve their quality.

[BOO]

6 hours ago, HazMatt said:

Thrustmaster has made themselves know as makers of garbage compared to WinWing, VKB, Virpil and others. 

amongst forum living hard core simmers perhaps. Google “ best joystick for flight sims” however and you’ll find no mention of anything but the mainstream makers of old with the warthog still living off the fat of the lamb. 
 

The T1600m has been one of the best entry level sticks for a long time. 
 

Ultimately the complete warthog hotas set up can be bought new for less than the price of a virpil base and stick, the t1600m hotas with pedals for less than the grip. Whilst not perfect they are a good middle ground to get people going and perfectly ok for casual to high middling use and even beyond. 
 

Sims are £60 quid games that cost £100s to play already. If TM can provide decent mid range and entry level offerings that can be bought from the likes of curry’s, scan and amazon its all for the good of the hobby.
 

Now, having said all that, I’ll got check if I’ve moved up the queue for the rhino…..  🙂
 

[Aapje]

7 hours ago, HazMatt said:

Thrustmaster has made themselves know as makers of garbage compared to WinWing, VKB, Virpil and others.

 

They can make decent products. Their TPR rudder pedals and T-LCM racing pedals are good products and fairly priced.

 

Frankly, even if AVA is overpriced, it would be a win if it is actually good. There are people for whom ordering abroad is pretty much impossibly expensive, so they are limited to products that are in their local stores. Overpriced but good is still better than overpriced and crap, like the Warthog.

 

 

[ACG_Ginger]

What makes you think Thrustmaster are garbage ? Before your WinWing, VKB, Virpil etc came to market , the warthog was the goto set up for most pilots who wanted the best , the sticks are still better than most of the others , and if you can get a up to date base then it will take some beating . 

[Aapje]

46 minutes ago, BOO said:

Ultimately the complete warthog hotas set up can be bought new for less than the price of a virpil base and stick, the t1600m hotas with pedals for less than the grip. Whilst not perfect they are a good middle ground to get people going and perfectly ok for casual to high middling use and even beyond.

 

Comparing it with Virpil is not fair at all, since you picked the one company to compare it to that doesn't offer a more budget-friendly joystick option.

 

VKB has the Gladiator NXT for $135, which is far superior to the Warthog stick which costs $260 on Amazon. So the Warthog is nearly twice the price, for lesser quality. And Winwing has a stick for $230 that is also superior.

 

The most budget-friendly HOTAS setup that is still decent is to pair a VKB or Winwing stick with a TWCS-throttle, which is far cheaper than a Warthog HOTAS combo at $550 on Amazon.  In fact, for that money you can get both a superior stick (VKB or Winwing) and a superior throttle (VKB STECS MiniPlus or the new Virpil CDT-VMAX).

 

46 minutes ago, BOO said:

If TM can provide decent mid range and entry level offerings that can be bought from the likes of curry’s, scan and amazon its all for the good of the hobby.

 

Yes, I agree.

[Aapje]

3 minutes ago, ACG_Ginger said:

What makes you think Thrustmaster are garbage?

 

I don't think that the company in general is garbage, but they sell a bunch of products that have obsolete technology and that are poor value for what you get, in particular the Warthog set.

 

The Warthog throttle is plastic, but then they screwed metal plates to that plastic throttle so it looks and feels better than it is. Other than that it is not really all that bad, aside from being poor value compared to modern competition, especially as the competition adds more and more features and improvements.

 

The joystick has a variety of issues, from having cast iron parts that get stressed and that break for many people, to a plastic gimbal that wears quickly and has stiction issues, to a very heavy spring (which is needed because otherwise you are much more likely to break the fragile internals if you can move the stick rapidly), to poor grease and to a poor thumbstick sensor. It is also missing features like a twist grip.

 

The joystick is made to seem reliable and high quality because it has metal on the outside, deceiving people about the poor quality of the insides. It is a good example of form over function. It's pretty much the opposite of VKB, where many people judge them to be poor quality due to them using plastics in a very obvious way, even though the actual quality is really good.

 

Quote

 the sticks are still better than most of the others

 

No, the Warthog stick is worse than everything from WinWing, VKB and Virpil, including their budget options.

 

The very reason why these new companies were able to get so successful in the first place is because the traditional makers of input devices for flight simming mostly stopped investing in it once the genre became much less popular. Apparently Trustmaster woke up during COVID times as demand surged. They've already tried to make up ground with their DD wheelbase for simracing and are now releasing new joystick.

[kissTheSky]

3 minutes ago, Aapje said:

 

I don't think that the company in general is garbage, but they sell a bunch of products that have obsolete technology and that are poor value for what you get, in particular the Warthog set.

 

The Warthog throttle is plastic, but then they screwed metal plates to that plastic throttle so it looks and feels better than it is. Other than that it is not really all that bad, aside from being poor value compared to modern competition, especially as the competition adds more and more features and improvements.

 

The joystick has a variety of issues, from having cast iron parts that get stressed and that break for many people, to a plastic gimbal that wears quickly and has stiction issues, to a very heavy spring (which is needed because otherwise you are much more likely to break the fragile internals if you can move the stick rapidly), to poor grease and to a poor thumbstick sensor. It is also missing features like a twist grip.

 

The joystick is made to seem reliable and high quality because it has metal on the outside, deceiving people about the poor quality of the insides. It is a good example of form over function. It's pretty much the opposite of VKB, where many people judge them to be poor quality due to them using plastics in a very obvious way, even though the actual quality is really good.

 

 

No, the Warthog stick is worse than everything from WinWing, VKB and Virpil, including their budget options.

 

The very reason why these new companies were able to get so successful in the first place is because the traditional makers of input devices for flight simming mostly stopped investing in it once the genre became much less popular. Apparently Trustmaster woke up during COVID times as demand surged. They've already tried to make up ground with their DD wheelbase for simracing and are now releasing new joystick.

You do know that Warthog came out in 2010, and basically re-wrote the rules for what a HOTAS setup should be and the newcomers started making it with better materials, no? 
 

I mean it’s been around for almost 15 years now. 

[Aapje]

@kissTheSky

 

Yes, it should have been replaced/fixed a long time ago.

[dgiatr]

Thrustmaster t1600 stick and throttle twcs are decent pieces, I use them intensively the last three years with no issues, except the yaw function of the flight  stick which is indeed a garbage, you definitely need rudder pedals...

Edited April 24, 2024 by dgiatr

[BOO]

1 hour ago, Aapje said:

 

Comparing it with Virpil is not fair at all, since you picked the one company to compare it to that doesn't offer a more budget-friendly joystick option.

 

VKB has the Gladiator NXT for $135, which is far superior to the Warthog stick which costs $260 on Amazon. So the Warthog is nearly twice the price, for lesser quality. And Winwing has a stick for $230 that is also superior.

 

The most budget-friendly HOTAS setup that is still decent is to pair a VKB or Winwing stick with a TWCS-throttle, which is far cheaper than a Warthog HOTAS combo at $550 on Amazon.  In fact, for that money you can get both a superior stick (VKB or Winwing) and a superior throttle (VKB STECS MiniPlus or the new Virpil CDT-VMAX).

 

 

 

I take your point and agree. My point was more that TM cannot be wrote off as “crap” and still provide some decent “named” products at a price point that may encourage newcomers into the hobby without having to research too much. Which I think we also agree on. 
 

I know a good few who would disagree that the warthog stick is crap even those who also own virpil and vkb products. A little overpriced perhaps but not crap. 
 

 

 

[Hoss]

10:00 am PDT, 7:00 pm CET reveal on their discord or YouTube channels. 

As to garbage, I love reading about WW, VIRPIL, VKB stuff on the HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT Discord. Seems they are not all they are cracked up to be. WW seems to be the worst in all categories. In all cases the buyer should beware. I've had a TMWH set up for over 10 years with absolutely no problems. And TARGET GUI let's me combine my TMWH throttle, stick, and Viper Panel into one combined device under keyboard emulation, so IL2 only sees a keyboard. I can create an ungodly amount of commands with just those three devices, and IL2 runs without a hiccup. See the link below for a peek at the AVA.

 

https://a.co/d/dE4A5SC

Edited April 24, 2024 by Hoss

[Aapje]

Apparently they just removed the pictures from the US Amazon listing, but they are still visible on the French Amazon, together with a 550 euro price. I hope for their sake that this is a placeholder price.

 

They also say: "Officially licensed Boeing F/A-18C Hornet handle includes 19 action buttons including a double trigger and an eight-way Chinese hat"

Edited April 24, 2024 by Aapje

[HazMatt]

7 hours ago, ACG_Ginger said:

What makes you think Thrustmaster are garbage ? Before your WinWing, VKB, Virpil etc came to market , the warthog was the goto set up for most pilots who wanted the best , the sticks are still better than most of the others , and if you can get a up to date base then it will take some beating . 

 

I bought 2 of the T-flight hotas for my kids. I was surprised how how cheap they felt and how poorly they performed even after calibration, setting dead zones and dampening. After a couple months one of they started to have a twitching Z axis when moving it in the X or Y axis. The only way to fix it was to set the deadzone so high it was impossible to use. A few months later the other one developed the same issue. (I figured you get what you pay for)

 

So, I "moved up" and bought the T16000 HOTAs. I was surprised how light and cheap the throttle felt. It felt like a kids toy. After less then a year the stick developed the SAME Z axis twitch as the other ones had. I did some research online and found this to be a common Thrustmaster problem because of a garbage design.

 

I briefly considered moving up to the Thrustmaster warthong but after a small amount of research I came to the conclusion that it was garbage too, and decided to go with aVKB Gladiator with Logitech throttle quadrant and a  Winwing Orion 2 HOTAS.

 

This is compared to my Saitek Pro Flight X-55/Logitech X-56 HOTAS that despite it's issues, (Like self advancing throttle on the X56 and buttons wearing out after years of use on the X-55) I got years of usage out of both without any major issues.

 

I think the Saitek/Logitech HOTAs are a much better investment for entry/mid level usage then Thrustmaster. Every piece of gear I got from Thrustmaster was garbage.

 

That's what makes me think Thrustmaster is garbage.

(this is my opinion based on my experience and it's not going to change no matter how much you fanboys say otherwise)

Edited April 24, 2024 by HazMatt

[Aapje]

 

It's on their website as well, $300 for the base: https://www.thrustmaster.com/en-us/products/ava-base/

 

Not seeing the two sticks on their website or on Amazon.

[HazMatt]

I'll be checking back in a couple years when we learn the actual longevity of the product.

[Aapje]

 

Apparently the old grips work with this, so $250 for both the F/A-18 and F-16 grip.

 

They did say that more grips, cams and such would come for this.

[StrikerRocket]

I bought the Hotas Warthog for a nice discount and changed the big spring in it. I also smoothed the plastic gimball with very fine sandpaper, and the stick is now buttery smooth and precise. The problem is the original spring which is way too strong. After replacing it and lubricating the whole thing, it's quite good actually.

I don't see why this TM base would be bad, it looks like a solid piece of kit to me, and changing the cams seems much easier than with the Virpil WarBRD-D.

 

In your opinion,which one should I get? The TM of the Virpil, which is €60 cheaper in Europe BTW. Could I use the Virpil base with the Hotas Throttle at the same time in MSFS 2020? The Virpil WarBRD-D and the F16 stick would look really good too!

 

Thanks for your advice.

Edited May 31, 2024 by StrikerRocket