Star Citizen

[DD_Crash]

13 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

I play it on a 1050Ti with 16Gb RAM.   I will admit that on HIGH settings I only get between 20-30 fps but IL2  only gets 30-40 on HIGH ?

 

 

There is more 'exploration' in one system than Elite has in in its thousands of procedurally generated systems though.  Many ex ED players have said this.     This is because they don't procedurally generate them.  They do start by getting a program to generate the terrain based on a chosen design unique to that planet but then they go in and finish it by hand.  Each city is designed and made by hand as well as well as other points of interest such as crash sites and cave systems and outposts and there are no 'instances' so everyone sees exactly the same things even when they go away and return months later.  There are also no cuts so if you see a mountain range from space you can fly right down and land there in real time with any particular point in sight and seamlessly getting bigger for the whole journey.  Imagine sewing together every map from IL2 and DCS into a single map and that is just a fraction of what SC has for a single moon and every inch can be landed on and explored.

 

This is basically why it has taken so long to finish one system but with the lessons and tools developed along the way they can now build each new one much faster and the next system should be released within the next 6-12 months and another is being developed alongside it for release around the same time or soon after.

Do you think that the criticism of SC is justified?. It seems to me that instead of starting with a couple of ships and getting the gameplay sorted, the decision was made to sell ever more complicated pixel spaceships for THOUSANDS of dollars, and more and more promises that they will never keep.

ITS alpha!!!! (still)

[56RAF_Roblex]

44 minutes ago, DD_Crash said:

Do you think that the criticism of SC is justified?. It seems to me that instead of starting with a couple of ships and getting the gameplay sorted, the decision was made to sell ever more complicated pixel spaceships for THOUSANDS of dollars, and more and more promises that they will never keep.

ITS alpha!!!! (still)

 

Honestly?  I think people are too hung up on the word 'Alpha'.  It is a fully playable and enjoyable game except the designers do not have a marketing team forcing them to draw a line at an arbitrary date and announce it is finished. This allows them to just keep improving it as the tech becomes available and to aim for features that are currently not doable by any software company.  

I am pretty sure all of us have at some point looked at a game we enjoy and thought 'Wouldn't it be cool if we could...?' eg "Wouldn't it be cool if you could get out of your aircraft after parking it and watch your friends landing?' or, even more adventurous, "Wouldn't it be cool if IL2 allowed you to run into the trees after crash landing and try to avoid getting captured and maybe steal a truck to get home?".    With SC they have planned such outrageous features from the start even though they did not know how it could be achieved back then but without the usual financial restraints they are free to do it.   Personally,  I don't care if it *never* goes live.   Y es, that does mean that sometimes an new update causes issues that take a few weeks to fix and sometimes they decide that a certain ship was too overpowered and will be adjusted downward but we get that in IL2 as well ?

 

Nobody is being tricked out of thousands of dollars,  it costs around $50 to get a small ship and for that price you have the full game and it gains more features every quarter for however long it takes and there will never be any more compulsory outlay and there is no 'pay to win' gameplay.  Sure you can choose to buy a big ship that costs a lot of real money but it won't make you an uber-player,  it just looks cool and lets your friends join you in one ship.   It is the same as 1C saying 'Sure we can build a Lancaster bomber or a B17 and let you run around inside it during missions to use the guns and radio and navigation table but you will have to pay us $400 to own one."    You don't need to fly a Lanc and if you have so much money that $400 is OK then it won't make you win any more fights or gain rank or privileges .   Some people just have that much disposable money.   I might add that all these ships can be bought using in-game money so you still don't have to invest more than the initial $50.   IL2 has cost me over £200 so far and I don't play much any more because it has become stale and nothing coming with Normandy excites me.  If they could have done 'Pacific' then that would have me excited.

 

[DD_Crash]

I think that your optimism is ill founded. It is a shame that Chris couldnt deliver what he promised for 2014 when he had more money than he said he needed and

SQD 42 was nearly finished. I might have bought it then. What put me off was a CitizenCon when the crowd started whooping when he came on stage. I have been watching the development slowly inching forward, it looks pretty though I will give you that. No VR no try for me.

[Trooper117]

I had a gut feeling about this whole thing years ago that it just wasn't right.

I bought into it, watched it get uber hyped by all and sundry and year in year out I waited for Squadron 42 to launch... nothing doing so far.

Sqn 42 was the whole reason I was interested in it in the first place. The faithful of course will back their baby to the hilt, but I'm not that easily led, sorry about that Chris.

Then there is the absolute millions that have been made and why does the main idea seem to be constantly adding to the feature creep, instead of finishing a desired goal, releasing it as complete and then moving on to the next segment, improving the existing game as it advances... only time will show the real story.

[Boomerang]

2 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Sqn 42 was the whole reason I was interested in it in the first place.

Same here, will install when available, just hope I'm still around on release. 

[Gambit21]

2 hours ago, Boomerang said:

Same here, will install when available, just hope I'm still around on release. 

 

I’ll install BoS, Battle of the Pacific Part 15 when it’s available too.

[Boomerang]

On 8/25/2021 at 5:56 AM, Gambit21 said:

I’ll install BoS, Battle of the Pacific Part 15 when it’s available too.

Look on the bright side, at least we have single player campaigns.  

[Gambit21]

Guys guys guys!!

This month the characters for Squadron 42 will already be 85% done according to Chris Roberts!!

 

Can you believe it? 85% done with the characters in only 10 years! Wow!

Only 2 more years to go for the characters, then they just have to finish everything else! Outstanding.

[Trooper117]

12 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Can you believe it? 85% done with the characters in only 10 years! Wow!

 

It's so pathetic isn't it...

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

The game has been in the making for over a decade and propably is the most expensive game ever that has not even been released yet. I recall they had over 200 million of funding for it already a few years back, wondering where it lies now?! Never seen as toxic community and so many holy crusades defending Chris Roberts and SC than over their forums. Can´t decide what to think of it, cry or laugh. I bet DCS has a full blown WW2 module out and working before SC/Sq 42 is officially released

[Feathered_IV]

58 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

I recall they had over 200 million of funding for it already a few years back

 

Interesting.  NASA sent a probe to the outermost planets for less than that.  And in less time too.

[Trooper117]

2 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

I recall they had over 200 million of funding for it already a few years back, wondering where it lies now?!

 

Ask Chris to show you inside his wallet...

[Thad]

On 8/24/2021 at 1:12 PM, Boomerang said:

Same here, will install when available, just hope I'm still around on release. 

 

I'll turn 71 years old next month. I've all but given up hope of seeing a truly playable game in my lifetime. ☹️

[Leon_Portier]

Just now, Thad said:

 

I'll turn 71 years old next month. I've all but given up hope of seeing a truly playable game in my lifetime. ☹️

Me too, and I'm like 1/3rd of your age ?

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

@Trooper117 Chris Roberts is the only one laughing on the way to the bank while suckers pour in their moolah on something that seems to be released in a generation or two  The budget was insane for a game, it was not that 200 million though. They got craploads of moolah via crowdfunding and selling those outrageously expensive ships. Still..I bet DCS will get further before SC/SQ42 is released..

[simfan2015]

" ... 

Can you believe it? 85% done with the characters in only 10 years! Wow!

...."

Yes Gambit21 I believe ... well, just as much as Theranos still being up to delivering what Elizabeth Holmes promised !

SC is one "crowdfunding" I did not yet support.

 

But OTOH I also think that if you bought one single (entry level) spacecraft from SC you already got far more out of it than what you paid for.

I got all the collector's items from IL-2, most planes/helos from DCS etc ... what's the difference ? ... no game is in fact ever 'complete' (that is why I keep buying stuff :-))  

Edited October 7, 2021 by simfan2015

[Gambit21]

On 10/7/2021 at 11:31 AM, simfan2015 said:

" ... 

what's the difference ? 

 

Quite a lot actually.

[Feathered_IV]

Glad to hear the Squadron 42 characters are 85% done now after all this time.  They must have put a lot of thought into them.  Really looking forward to the sarcastic female character with a chip on her shoulder who is good at everything.  The older General guy who turns out to be a madman and betrays you in a plot twist.  Plus the small nerdy bloke who really knows tech, and the big hulk guy with the deep voice who dies eventually.  

[Boomerang]

If I didn't laugh, I'd probably cry. If S42 is around 85%, at present, optimistic completion should be around 1.5 years away... .. . 

Kind of feel a little hood winked tbh. It's like looking forward to all those G.O.T episodes with that disappointing finale. 

[Vig]

Compare the development of Star Citizen to SpaceX during the same time period.  

[AndyJWest]

26 minutes ago, Vig said:

Compare the development of Star Citizen to SpaceX during the same time period.  

 

Or the Apollo program. Or plate tectonics...

[Irishratticus72]

On 10/12/2021 at 1:02 AM, Feathered_IV said:

Glad to hear the Squadron 42 characters are 85% done now after all this time.  They must have put a lot of thought into them.  Really looking forward to the sarcastic female character with a chip on her shoulder who is good at everything.  The older General guy who turns out to be a madman and betrays you in a plot twist.  Plus the small nerdy bloke who really knows tech, and the big hulk guy with the deep voice who dies eventually.  

Plus the crew chief who's really a Cylon. 

[Gambit21]

15 hours ago, Boomerang said:

If I didn't laugh, I'd probably cry. If S42 is around 85%, at present, optimistic completion should be around 1.5 years away... .. . 

Kind of feel a little hood winked tbh. It's like looking forward to all those G.O.T episodes with that disappointing finale. 

 

Read again - I/they didn’t say S42 is 85% complete. They said the characters area 85% complete.

 

For all we know the rest is 40% complete.

[Thad]

10 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

For all we know the rest is 40% complete.

 

Aren't you the optimistic one. ?

[Gambit21]

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-11-10-star-citizen-developer-plans-1000-person-manchester-mega-studio

 

?

[AndyJWest]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-11-10-star-citizen-developer-plans-1000-person-manchester-mega-studio

 

?

 

Quote

...when I was hired to write the Game of the Month for BBC Micro User, back in 1983 at the ripe age of 14...

 

Anyone at all familiar with how the fledgling computer gaming industry worked back in 1983 would probably take that with a pinch of salt, even if it didn't come from Chris Roberts. He wasn't 'hired' to write anything. He, along with another schoolmate, wrote a clone of a game for another computer, and submitted it as a type-it-in-yourself BASIC game to the magazine.

 

https://www.pixsoriginadventures.co.uk/king-kong-chris-roberts-first-game/

[Feathered_IV]

"A five-year plan will see 700 people fill the building by 2023, before further growth to an eye-opening team size of 1000 by 2026."

 

Soooo...  Don't expect a finished game for another five years or more.

[kestrel79]

I'm surprised they have the cash to do this.

 

Is it playable yet? I saw they just released a new version of the alpha.

[simfan2015]

After the alfa comes the... 10 year beta period. They have all the time in the world to fill that building. 

If star citizen would have been managed by Jason they would have had Star Citizen 2 by now! 

[Avimimus]

On 8/23/2021 at 10:49 PM, QB.Creep said:

It will be interesting to see how much longer people continue to throw good money after bad before they wake up and realize that a polished game will never be delivered.

 

I almost backed the kick-starter - but then I saw the feature creep and balked. I eventually picked up a starter package for the planet tech (as I figured that would be worth it). I personally can't quite understand how they're able to keep pulling in the money. I think a lot of it is a belief that 500 million dollars worth of work will eventually produce something.

 

I'm not entirely sure that they won't end up releasing something playable in spite of themselves. I originally predicted 2023-2024 for 4.0 (i.e. the release with multiple start systems) - we'll see if I'm right.

 

The other thing I find interesting is how long they'll take before switching from aUEC to UEC (i.e. to permanent progression without wipes). Theoretically their quanta system and a third of their basic game loops, along with their replication letter, should be in by 2023... so they could make the transition to persistent progression. However, I'm not sure they will. They may insist on waiting until 2030.

 

I also suspect that they might pivot at some point to stabilising the graphical quality, simply because the player base will shift towards people who aren't the type to buy a $2000 concept ship and upgrade their computer every six months... however, I suspect that Chris Roberts (and his core followers) may have enough inertia that they insist on continuing to do that - which will mean constantly creeping minimum system requirements - and ones which are close to the maximum system requirements of other games.

 

Also, depending on how their insurance system works it may require a lot of continuous grinding to progress without using real world money to buy ship insurance (which would effectively be a subscription game). There are a lot of uncertainties about what the product will be - even if they get to "beta".

 

Anyway, it is sort-of morbidly fascinating to watch... and it is interesting to watch all of the engineering that is going into the software.

[Tycoon]

4 hours ago, kestrel79 said:

I'm surprised they have the cash to do this.

 

 

2020 was their biggest year profit wise, I heard this year might be bigger not sure.

[Avimimus]

On 11/13/2021 at 7:30 PM, Feathered_IV said:

"A five-year plan will see 700 people fill the building by 2023, before further growth to an eye-opening team size of 1000 by 2026."

 

Soooo...  Don't expect a finished game for another five years or more.

 

I think the more concerning thing is the apparent belief that they'll able to keep having a huge budget indefinitely... there may be hubris in that thought.

 

That said, the fact that they will have gone seven and a half years from concept to release of the fairly basic and simple to implement Genesis Starliner without consumer confidence crumbling among their core supporters...  - and other similar feats - may make them feel pretty invincible overall. The belief that "normal rules don't apply in my special case".

[Gambit21]

6 hours ago, kestrel79 said:

I'm surprised they have the cash to do this.

 

 

They're creating a universe that will keep people inside, glued to a screen, checked out from what's actually going on in the real world.

Something tells me they'll continue to get plenty of funding. I'd like to see their books.

 

 

[Hanu]

Star Citizen is a Very Advanced Model Viewer where you buy expensive and glorious 3D models and you test them in 3D environment and you may imagine what it would be like if this were a game.

 

It's UI is utter crap, its joy mappings are ridiculous. They just produce new models and new places where you can admire those models.

[Feathered_IV]

It must be hard for them to attract new customers.  Anybody seeing the project for the first time would surely be very put off by the long and continued history of failing to deliver. 

[Lusekofte]

13 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

It must be hard for them to attract new customers.  Anybody seeing the project for the first time would surely be very put off by the long and continued history of failing to deliver. 

Question is. Do they know? They just might push the buy button and think this looks cool

[HansBlitz]

At this rate, mankind will be actual star citizens by the time one can play at being a star citizen.

[Trooper117]

1 hour ago, HansBlitz said:

At this rate, mankind will be actual star citizens by the time one can play at being a star citizen.

 

You just might be onto something there... 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

SC/SQ42 has up to date collected over 400 million USD funding from 3,3 million people. Source strong Google-fu. 10 years in the making and nothing ready. As comparison Red Dead Redemption 2 cost 540mill USD and is out selling like hotcakes. Only thing bloating is Chris Roberts and his bank account

[J2_Oelmann]

On 11/22/2021 at 11:18 AM, LLv34_Flanker said:

S! 

 

SC/SQ42 has up to date collected over 400 million USD funding from 3,3 million people. Source strong Google-fu. 10 years in the making and nothing ready. As comparison Red Dead Redemption 2 cost 540mill USD and is out selling like hotcakes. Only thing bloating is Chris Roberts and his bank account

On the other hand Red dead redemption 2 took 8 years to develope by a complete established Studio which allready did part one, aswell as the GTA series. Cyberpunk took 9 years to reach its awefull release state and was done by the Witcher 3 dudes. Star citizen started 2010 literally in Chris Roberts basement. So I think the development time is indeed long but still allright giving its scope.