Where did everyone go? (A mystery)

[Rattlesnake]

I've peeped into MP servers on American weekday evening and seen empty WWI servers.

I checked RoF multiplayer just to make sure the WWI aviation fanbase wasn't back there for some reason. Nope, ghost town.

This is astonishing to me. WWI aviation has GOT to have a big enough fanbase to keep at least one WWI server on populated during primetime. Is everyone who used to play RoF playing Isonzo (ha ha)? 

[Enceladus828]

8 hours ago, Rattlesnake said:

Is everyone who used to play RoF playing Isonzo (ha ha)? 

Jokes aside, this is why we need more fronts in FC like the Channel, Eastern and Italian. Right now you're basically re-purchasing RoF at a higher price for slightly improved graphics, VR, the Snipe and SS DIV in Flying Circus, minus the Channel Map, seaplanes, Eastern Front and Russian planes. But if people have been totally fine re-purchasing RoF for the past 5 and a half years then they should be totally fine buying the Channel Map, Tarnopol Map and other maps in FC. Imagine what would happen if a further fleshed out Eastern Front installment with many new planes that weren't in RoF was made for FC, it would sell very well and make FC not so much a re-purchase of RoF and would also make WoFF players come over.

Isonzo gives us a first person perspective of the Italian Front from 1915-18; to my knowledge this is the most notable depiction of the Italian Front. I knew nothing about it until I got the game. Air power did play a role over the front so it does deserve to be depicted and a lot of Entente planes can also be used here so you wouldn't need a complete set of 8 or 10 new planes. Adding the Italian Front would also make FC less of a re-purchase of RoF and bring WoFF players here. It could also bring Isonzo players here so they can experience the Italian Front as well, just from above.

 

In short, doing more fronts in FC would be very rewarding for the devs.

 

[Rattlesnake]

2 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

Jokes aside, this is why we need more fronts in FC like the Channel, Eastern and Italian. Right now you're basically re-purchasing RoF at a higher price for slightly improved graphics, VR, the Snipe and SS DIV in Flying Circus, minus the Channel Map, seaplanes, Eastern Front and Russian planes. But if people have been totally fine re-purchasing RoF for the past 5 and a half years then they should be totally fine buying the Channel Map, Tarnopol Map and other maps in FC. Imagine what would happen if a further fleshed out Eastern Front installment with many new planes that weren't in RoF was made for FC, it would sell very well and make FC not so much a re-purchase of RoF and would also make WoFF players come over.

Isonzo gives us a first person perspective of the Italian Front from 1915-18; to my knowledge this is the most notable depiction of the Italian Front. I knew nothing about it until I got the game. Air power did play a role over the front so it does deserve to be depicted and a lot of Entente planes can also be used here so you wouldn't need a complete set of 8 or 10 new planes. Adding the Italian Front would also make FC less of a re-purchase of RoF and bring WoFF players here. It could also bring Isonzo players here so they can experience the Italian Front as well, just from above.

 

In short, doing more fronts in FC would be very rewarding for the devs.

 

WoFF still has a multiplayer population???

[=IRFC=Gascan]

Prime Time is on Saturdays and Sundays. This weekend the Knights of the Sky server is putting on a Channel Battle scenario, using the Normandy map to have Gothas attack southern England. Sunday will be the regular FlugPark battles. On Tuesdays, Ad Astra has battles in both EU time and US time. Most of the active MP players use discord to schedule and communicate about events.

[Rattlesnake]

Right, of course Saturday and Sundays will be more populous. I'm just wondering where the population that used to keep some players in RoF servers nearly round the clock went. Wondering if we can expect numbers to go up when all FC modules are completed and maybe on sale for less than a car payment.

[Zooropa_Fly]

FC MP numbers have never been close to what RoF was, and never will be.

[No.23_Starling]

Sundays on Flugpark around 7pm GMT / 2pm Eastern are seeing a near-full server. The events run by No.10/J.18 on Saturdays also get good turnouts. Join both their Discords for invites and you’ll find plenty of players to join and meme

[Satans_Angel]

Players.zipPlayers.zipPlayers.zipOver the past five months I have documented over 750 Different players in my Bataan  memorial server (ROF). They may not show up on a regular basis but they are out there Somewhere.

Edited February 25, 2024 by Satans_Angel

[Rattlesnake]

On 2/24/2024 at 6:00 AM, Zooropa_Fly said:

FC MP numbers have never been close to what RoF was, and never will be.

Why not? And if players just plan don't like FC then why are RoF servers also empty? This is a missing persons case on a par with Roanoke or the Mary-Celeste...

I have a shelf full of books about WWI aviation. They sell. Documentaries about the "cavalry of the clouds" gets views. There has GOT to be enough interested people on planet earth to keep at least one server in one game decently populated.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

1 hour ago, Rattlesnake said:

Why not? And if players just plan don't like FC then why are RoF servers also empty? This is a missing persons case on a par with Roanoke or the Mary-Celeste...

I have a shelf full of books about WWI aviation. They sell. Documentaries about the "cavalry of the clouds" gets views. There has GOT to be enough interested people on planet earth to keep at least one server in one game decently populated.

So it's marketing failure?

 

Btw for games we need relative young ppl or one who have time and will for playing online games. Devs said that something like 80% are single player users.

From 1PL perspective, we were very active in ROF , during pandemic also in FC but when ppl grow up , they have other priorities also they become burn out. FC is very similar to ROF, they lost interest playing the same song.  Have a hobby in  WW1 do not mean you will be playing video games about WW1 air combat.

 

Most of us who stayed are playing also WW2 as major period, WW1 for casual Sundays or organized events like BA or BS. Guys who do not like  WW2 are rarely seen at all. 

Edited February 28, 2024 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[jollyjack]

I seriously think marketing has a lot to do with it. I know a DCS jet planes fan who never heard of it and thanks me he now bought it I think.

[Zooropa_Fly]

7 hours ago, Rattlesnake said:

Why not? And if players just plan don't like FC then why are RoF servers also empty? This is a missing persons case on a par with Roanoke or the Mary-Celeste...

I have a shelf full of books about WWI aviation. They sell. Documentaries about the "cavalry of the clouds" gets views. There has GOT to be enough interested people on planet earth to keep at least one server in one game decently populated.

 

Even well past its peak, there were populated servers at any time of day in RoF. That's never been true of FC.

WW1 always had a large, let's say maturing player base, and sadly quite a few are no longer with us.

I noted when FC came out that there were large numbers of RoF'ers that didn't seem to come over. So I think many just moved on to other things.

And of those on servers at the beginning, many seemed to disappear after a while.

Having access to only ww2 maps with long flights at the start probably didn't help - compounded by not being able to place custom AF's because of the bumpy ground.

 

I just don't see where future numbers are coming from.

Unless there's a big marketing push, and somehow people start flocking over from War Thunder.

 

I'd still rather have seen RoF tartied up to the best it could be, than the creation of FC, as a non-VR user of course !

But it is what it is, and FC is great.

It just doesn't give me the experience I'm looking for.. when I'm looking for it.

S!

[BMA_Hellbender]

For me the answer is quite simple: WWII is more popular than WWI, that's where people are.

 

Rise of Flight was a success because although it was the less popular WWI setting, it was on a newer engine, so the numbers were inflated. I went from IL-2 1946 > Rise of Flight (skipped IL-2 Cliffs of Dover completely). When Great Battles came out, people went back to WWII. So what you're seeing now is the actual WWI population -- of which I'm only part since 2009, and where I've decided to stay (at least until the PTO makes a return), unlike many others who went back to WWII.

 

Now a more complicated question is: where are all the WWII people? That's an answer best left for another time.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

1 hour ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

Now a more complicated question is: where are all the WWII people? That's an answer best left for another time.

? On the war 

[Aapje]

6 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

Now a more complicated question is: where are all the WWII people? That's an answer best left for another time.

We are in the late war period. Most of them are POWs or dead.

[Rattlesnake]

17 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

For me the answer is quite simple: WWII is more popular than WWI, that's where people are.

 

Rise of Flight was a success because although it was the less popular WWI setting, it was on a newer engine, so the numbers were inflated. I went from IL-2 1946 > Rise of Flight (skipped IL-2 Cliffs of Dover completely). When Great Battles came out, people went back to WWII. So what you're seeing now is the actual WWI population -- of which I'm only part since 2009, and where I've decided to stay (at least until the PTO makes a return), unlike many others who went back to WWII.

 

Now a more complicated question is: where are all the WWII people? That's an answer best left for another time.

Someone mentioned War Thunder. War Thunder air sim is actually pretty decent, at least for prop planes, can't speak to jets. Not a huge player population but I wish FC had as many!!! Maybe some advertising, time, and the FC modules having time to be on good sales can help.

Thing is, WWI is WWII's older, cooler cousin. And thaaaaaaaaaaaat's a FACT. ?

Edited February 29, 2024 by Rattlesnake

[BMA_Hellbender]

5 hours ago, Rattlesnake said:

Someone mentioned War Thunder. War Thunder air sim is actually pretty decent, at least for prop planes, can't speak to jets. Not a huge player population but I wish FC had as many!!! Maybe some advertising, time, and the FC modules having time to be on good sales can help.

Thing is, WWI is WWII's older, cooler cousin. And thaaaaaaaaaaaat's a FACT. ?

 

Obviously WW1 > WW2, but let's also be honest that FC is a remaster of RoF, not a brand new sim like IL-2 GB is compared to 1946/CloD.

 

FC is objectively better than RoF at this point, at least since they fixed the terrible DM and added the improved pilot physiology, but many people left way before that happened. The new content (Snipe and Siemens) is also... subpar. Well, no, it's actually really good and likely far more realistic than the remastered RoF content, which needs to be updated.

 

Anyway, I'll repeat what I've said before: FC needs competition in the market for it to really improve substantially.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

It's ture that ROF release was perfect in time , this showed in numbers of players. Many WW2 players stared playing WW1. It was new, had significantly better graphics and physics.

[Enceladus828]

8 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

Obviously WW1 > WW2, but let's also be honest that FC is a remaster of RoF, not a brand new sim like IL-2 GB is compared to 1946/CloD.

Exactly. As it's pretty much a remaster you're going to have people, particularly non-VR users asking why they should buy RoF again... at a higher price. What FC needs is new content such as planes for the Fokker Scourge like the B.E.2c, more maps including maps which weren't in RoF and more planes that weren't in RoF, otherwise people are going to question why they should pay for the same thing? The best decision would have been to give the RoF code away like what happened with 1946 (it's probably possible now as the GBs code has greatly evolved since late 2017) but they chose to do FC and we just have to accept that. If the devs add the Channel Map for FC4 then they have my money right there!

[Rattlesnake]

I'm seeing a lot of "Boo FC, RoF 4EVAH!", but that just begs the question of why ain't no one in RoF either...

Bottom line, I'm having an impulse RN and would totally drop $80 right now just to get back in my beloved Nieuport 17/11, but if I have very little prospect of actually getting to hunt my fellow humans on days I'm not at work, well for right now I may have to blow those ever-devaluing bucks on .45 Long Colt instead.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

2 hours ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

Hey hey hey…

 

is flying circus forgotten? Or they want release all the planes the final package same time ( in two weeks ? ) ?

 

However, give us some birdseed, we are hungry ?

 

 

12 minutes ago, Rattlesnake said:

I'm seeing a lot of "Boo FC, RoF 4EVAH!", but that just begs the question of why ain't no one in RoF either...

Bottom line, I'm having an impulse RN and would totally drop $80 right now just to get back in my beloved Nieuport 17/11, but if I have very little prospect of actually getting to hunt my fellow humans on days I'm not at work, well for right now I may have to blow those ever-devaluing bucks on .45 Long Colt instead.

There's "usually" 4-6 players during the week on the Flugpark during the day.  They come and go of course,  but it's common to see a few regulars there.

There's 2 on right now.  You can refresh this link to see who's on at any point in time.  http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/online/

 

[BMA_Hellbender]

7 hours ago, Rattlesnake said:

I'm seeing a lot of "Boo FC, RoF 4EVAH!", but that just begs the question of why ain't no one in RoF either...

Bottom line, I'm having an impulse RN and would totally drop $80 right now just to get back in my beloved Nieuport 17/11, but if I have very little prospect of actually getting to hunt my fellow humans on days I'm not at work, well for right now I may have to blow those ever-devaluing bucks on .45 Long Colt instead.

 

FC is objectively way better than RoF ever was, but FC right now is nowhere near as good compared to other flightsims as RoF was in its heyday.

 

There seems to be some willingness recently on the devs' part to fix longstanding issues. The AI is getting updated. There's even been rumours of the Nieuport 28 and Albatros eventually getting looked at. Whether this will actually happen and whether it is enough to bring people back to FC, time will tell. So much other content to consume in the meantime.

[Rattlesnake]

3 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

 

FC is objectively way better than RoF ever was, but FC right now is nowhere near as good compared to other flightsims as RoF was in its heyday.

 

There seems to be some willingness recently on the devs' part to fix longstanding issues. The AI is getting updated. There's even been rumours of the Nieuport 28 and Albatros eventually getting looked at. Whether this will actually happen and whether it is enough to bring people back to FC, time will tell. So much other content to consume in the meantime.

I have flown the N28 a bit in both sims. Just by the numbers it has good power loading and wing loading relative many. IMO, what makes it difficult in game is lack of sufficient elevator authority to use ALL of it's lift by being able to pull to the stall point. Whether this is accurate or inaccurate I haven't the faintest idea.

If we were ever to get an Italian front map in AC then it's worth pointing out that apparently the Austrians built the best-performing Albatross variant. I'll have to look in one of my books to get full details, but would likely be a worthy addition.

I have noticed that the AI can be mistaken for a human in a dogfight, for the first time in RoF/FC history.

[BMA_Hellbender]

1 hour ago, Rattlesnake said:

I have flown the N28 a bit in both sims. Just by the numbers it has good power loading and wing loading relative many. IMO, what makes it difficult in game is lack of sufficient elevator authority to use ALL of it's lift by being able to pull to the stall point. Whether this is accurate or inaccurate I haven't the faintest idea.

If we were ever to get an Italian front map in AC then it's worth pointing out that apparently the Austrians built the best-performing Albatross variant. I'll have to look in one of my books to get full details, but would likely be a worthy addition.

I have noticed that the AI can be mistaken for a human in a dogfight, for the first time in RoF/FC history.

 

I’ve long suspected something similar with the N28. Incorrect COG or somesuch (too far aft). Its tail heaviness on takeoff was addressed in RoF back in 2014, but never its inexplicable lack of elevator authority in flight. For the record: combat reports, reports from pilots flying modern day replicas (Stu Goldspink at the WW1 Aviation Heritage Trust) and the C++ simulations of @Holtzauge all state that this machine could outturn both its main adversaries: the Albatros D.Va and Fokker D.VII (at least the non-F).

 

The Albatros variant you’re thinking of is the D.III Oeffag with its 200hp Austro-Daimler engine. If only we could buy it as a collector plane…

 

Agreed about the AI getting slowly better with every update.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

6 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

 

I’ve long suspected something similar with the N28. Incorrect COG or somesuch (too far aft). Its tail heaviness on takeoff was addressed in RoF back in 2014, but never its inexplicable lack of elevator authority in flight. For the record: combat reports, reports from pilots flying modern day replicas (Stu Goldspink at the WW1 Aviation Heritage Trust) and the C++ simulations of @Holtzauge all state that this machine could outturn both its main adversaries: the Albatros D.Va and Fokker D.VII (at least the non-F).

 

The Albatros variant you’re thinking of is the D.III Oeffag with its 200hp Austro-Daimler engine. If only we could buy it as a collector plane…

 

Agreed about the AI getting slowly better with every update.

They fix P47 , now it have realstic elevator authority, why they can't do the same with n28. The n28 problem and ppl complaining is long enough. Why WW2 is always on top - don't answer ?

Edited March 2, 2024 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[DD_Arthur]

Hellbender is correct. RoF arrived as a new, interesting sim with some novel features and a flight model like no other just as IL2 1946 was passing it’s peak and CLoD was a flop.

 

Many people took to RoF multiplayer as it was stable and…fun. It enjoyed a good four or even five year run until Battle of Stalingrad became fleshed out and multiplayer became more stable. Then RoF’s figures went into a decline - not helped by the knowledge it would not be further developed.

Flying Circus was generally well received and gaining good traction until the disastrous damage model update that we were lumbered with for the best part of two years. It really hasn’t recovered from it yet.

More content in the form of new planes; especially Central two seaters would really help widen playability in my opinion.

 

New maps? They take a lot of time and budget to develop. The RoF channel map was a thing of beauty but can I be the only one who remembers how servers would empty when that came up in the rotation?

[Zooropa_Fly]

23 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

The RoF channel map was a thing of beauty but can I be the only one who remembers how servers would empty when that came up in the rotation?

 

It used to lag much worse than any other map. 

It was a struggle to use in the ME as well. 

[No.23_Starling]

15 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

Hellbender is correct. RoF arrived as a new, interesting sim with some novel features and a flight model like no other just as IL2 1946 was passing it’s peak and CLoD was a flop.

 

Many people took to RoF multiplayer as it was stable and…fun. It enjoyed a good four or even five year run until Battle of Stalingrad became fleshed out and multiplayer became more stable. Then RoF’s figures went into a decline - not helped by the knowledge it would not be further developed.

Flying Circus was generally well received and gaining good traction until the disastrous damage model update that we were lumbered with for the best part of two years. It really hasn’t recovered from it yet.

More content in the form of new planes; especially Central two seaters would really help widen playability in my opinion.

 

New maps? They take a lot of time and budget to develop. The RoF channel map was a thing of beauty but can I be the only one who remembers how servers would empty when that came up in the rotation?

RoF was also a stand alone sim fully focused on WW1. FC is an add-on to a WW2 sim and not as easy to find and setup as a player new to the series. WW2 takes priority for new content and upgrades for the developers with work often outsourced to a 3rd party. That has its ups and downs - more modern engine and VR but far less support for anything really new (not a port from RoF).

 

There were 50 ppl on the FlugPark server last night which is getting standard for a Sunday. Not too shabby.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

3 hours ago, No.23_Starling said:

 

There were 50 ppl on the FlugPark server last night which is getting standard for a Sunday. Not too shabby.

 

That's the only day though....sort of like going to church.

[BMA_Hellbender]

Flying Churchus

[BMA_West]

Remember my dads church going was mostly related to what happend after, talking 60 ies here )))

 

Après church ))) )))

 

Cliffhanger was when mom finally asked to go "Look for your dad, will you".
My chances were good of that ending with a chocolat bar for me,
however I do seem to remember somewhere a crème-au-beurre cake on the kitchen ceiling ...

Edited March 6, 2024 by West

[US103_Baer]

On 2/23/2024 at 3:50 PM, Rattlesnake said:

I've peeped into MP servers on American weekday evening and seen empty WWI servers.

I checked RoF multiplayer just to make sure the WWI aviation fanbase wasn't back there for some reason. Nope, ghost town.

This is astonishing to me. WWI aviation has GOT to have a big enough fanbase to keep at least one WWI server on populated during primetime. Is everyone who used to play RoF playing Isonzo (ha ha)? 

 

Similarly amazed.

 

When ppl say peak days are Sat, Sun they mean Sat and Sun European evenings / US afternoons. There's some weekday traffic too, but again - European evening and US afternoon.  

 

So how does that work for a US guy (or cough TZ equivalent cough) who has a daytime job and a family who, oh idk, might want to do family things on a weekend afternoon?

It doesn't. 

 

What I personally found over the years, is that reliable, regularly scheduled slots during the week helped organise real life around that slot. Over time, that starts working for more and more people, and the slot regularly garners a viable crowd which then self-promtes.

Without the criteria of:

- regular time slot

- trust there'll be a viable server population

people will stop turning up, that trust will erode and it'll die. 

 

I had some hope for the Ad Astra tuesday nights, but it's been sketchy and hasn't had enough ppl in probably over a month. 

 

However,  I still believe that a sustained effort to promote a US weekday evening has a chance to get 20-30 regulars. Not massive,  but enough. And it doesn't matter which server.

Additionally,  providing mission variation from the Sat/Sun sessions might be a way to attract those regulars,  plus people who can't attend weekends afternoons. 

 

Edited March 22, 2024 by US103_Baer

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

I think sometimes people look at the stats page to see if anyone else is flying.   If they see others they join, if not they do something else.   So maybe join that empty server anyway.   Others may see there is activity,  and join you.  I've seen it happen.   You can always AI farm, or attack ground targets while waiting for others to join you.

Edited March 22, 2024 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[=IRFC=Gascan]

The Aces Falling (the Tuesday evening on Ad Astra) was pretty good for a while. The last two weeks I've been learning the mission editor, and Kotori has been out since one of his VR lighthouses broke and the replacement hasn't arrived yet. I'd love to build that back up. The smaller map was great fun with 10-ish players, and absolutely incredible with 20-30.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I cannot get my guys (what's left of them) to consider WW1 flying anymore.  I'll ask in our forum about putting a mission up and none want to touch the kites.  Generally the refrain is that transit times to the "action" take far too long, the air to air combat against AI is repetitive and boring, and as we like the attack role, that attacking ground targets seems mostly ineffective, or suicidal, owing to the weak armament/fragility of the aircraft involved.

 

Personally I enjoy flying the WW1 birds, but I understand their feelings on it.  WW1 has always been a small niche inside the very small gaming niche of combat flight simulation.  I guess if everyone had come from an Anglo/Zulu War sim, buzzing around in a Fokker or Sopwith would seem really racy, but not when you are expecting Mustang, Spitfire, Bf109, etc. levels of gameplay.

 

Sad but true.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

23 hours ago, =IRFC=Gascan said:

The Aces Falling (the Tuesday evening on Ad Astra) was pretty good for a while. The last two weeks I've been learning the mission editor, and Kotori has been out since one of his VR lighthouses broke and the replacement hasn't arrived yet. I'd love to build that back up. The smaller map was great fun with 10-ish players, and absolutely incredible with 20-30.

 

Fun map with the exception of getting Pk'd or having Nieuport explode on nearly every sortie.

 

 

 

[=LD=Bulldog*]

I miss my Se5A on a Sunday. Traded it in for a Bf 109 F4.

 

Woof!