Joystick and pedals FFB.

December 29, 2024

10 часов назад, Cynic_Al сказал:

Leaving aside all discussion of the hardware, in the past there seems to have been uncertainty that the game to which this forum applies, supports FFB for the rudder axis.

Can you or one of your colleagues confirm that FFB support is available, for this and other popular flight combat titles?

Yes, all FFBeast devices work in Il-2!
Personally, I use Joystick and pedals, I haven't installed the throttle yet, after the New Year holidays.
The screenshot shows a list of currently supported flight simulators.

December 30, 2024

On 12/29/2024 at 11:22 AM, GVL224 said:

Yes, all FFBeast devices work in Il-2!

That wasn't quite what I was asking. Does IL2 provide FFB telemetry specific to the rudder axis? The answer may seem obvious but not necessarily.

December 31, 2024

1 час назад, Cynic_Al сказал:

That wasn't quite what I was asking. Does IL2 provide FFB telemetry specific to the rudder axis? The answer may seem obvious but not necessarily.

As far as I know, the IL-2 game does not transmit telemetry for the rudder, but the FFBeast devices work fine without the effects transmitted via telemetry from the game.

January 2

On 12/30/2024 at 6:21 PM, Cynic_Al said:

That wasn't quite what I was asking. Does IL2 provide FFB telemetry specific to the rudder axis? The answer may seem obvious but not necessarily.

On 12/30/2024 at 8:07 PM, GVL224 said:

As far as I know, the IL-2 game does not transmit telemetry for the rudder, but the FFBeast devices work fine without the effects transmitted via telemetry from the game.

@dgiatr - Can you comment on if you feel the lack of native rudder telemetry handicaps the rudder pedal FFB effect in IL-2. I know you just built a Rhino version for your MFGs and are using Rhino software for the rudder effects, but I assume it would be similar to what GVL224 is discussing with the FFBeast "Commander" software.

January 3

17 hours ago, Varibraun said:

@dgiatr - Can you comment on if you feel the lack of native rudder telemetry handicaps the rudder pedal FFB effect in IL-2. I know you just built a Rhino version for your MFGs and are using Rhino software for the rudder effects, but I assume it would be similar to what GVL224 is discussing with the FFBeast "Commander" software.

There are defenetly yaw telemetry data from il2 like yaw position and yaw rate , I see them in simtools which controls my g-seat , but I don't think Rhino config or Rhino telem ffb uses them for my Rhino FFB MFG rudder conversion.

January 3

@dgiatr

It would be nice if you would do a review of the Rhino FFB MFG rudder conversion one day, once you feel that you have put the thing through its paces.

January 3

2 hours ago, Aapje said:

@dgiatr

It would be nice if you would do a review of the Rhino FFB MFG rudder conversion one day, once you feel that you have put the thing through its paces.

Ok guys I want to spend a little more time with Rhino Ffb Mfg rudder pedals and then I will make a short review..

January 10

On 12/31/2024 at 1:07 AM, GVL224 said:

As far as I know, the IL-2 game does not transmit telemetry for the rudder, but the FFBeast devices work fine without the effects transmitted via telemetry from the game.

This begs the question: What data do they use? In the event of a rudder departing the airframe or something happening to its 'rods', will they continue blindly to generate force?

January 11

23 часа назад, Cynic_Al сказал:

This begs the question: What data do they use? In the event of a rudder departing the airframe or something happening to its 'rods', will they continue blindly to generate force?

Due to the use of a translator, I can't understand the meaning of the question...
You can ask the question directly to the author of the firmware in his discord channel dedicated to FFBeast.

January 11

@GVL224

The question is whether the pedals will keep creating the same forces if the rudder on the plane is damaged or destroyed.

January 11

4 hours ago, Aapje said:

@GVL224

The question is whether the pedals will keep creating the same forces if the rudder on the plane is damaged or destroyed.

There is a "damage" telemetry value that il2 sends out whenever any part of the plane is damaged, not only the rudder. I don't know exactly how this parameter works but every time there is a severe damage on the plane, then some additional "damage" vibrations appear on the ffb stick or ffb rudder.

January 11

6 часов назад, Aapje сказал:

@GVL224

The question is whether the pedals will keep creating the same forces if the rudder on the plane is damaged or destroyed.

An interesting question... I don't know, I'll have to try to control this situation.

February 6

On 1/3/2025 at 7:37 PM, dgiatr said:

Ok guys I want to spend a little more time with Rhino Ffb Mfg rudder pedals and then I will make a short review..

Hi there!

a short review about Rhino ffb MFG rudder pedals modification here as i promised :

Cheers!

Edited February 6 by dgiatr

February 8

On 2/6/2025 at 2:58 PM, dgiatr said:

Hi there!

a short review about Rhino ffb MFG rudder pedals modification here as i promised :

Thank you! I think you have convinced me to finally pull the trigger on the pedals :salute:

February 12

11.01.2025 в 16:49, Aapje сказал:

The question is whether the pedals will keep creating the same forces if the rudder on the plane is damaged or destroyed.

This effect implemented in native DirectX effect for stick only. And as I remember not only for damaged control surfaces but for damaged control lines. But telemetry do not have this information unfortunately

February 12

On 1/3/2025 at 1:16 AM, dgiatr said:

There are defenetly yaw telemetry data from il2 like yaw position and yaw rate , I see them in simtools which controls my g-seat , but I don't think Rhino config or Rhino telem ffb uses them for my Rhino FFB MFG rudder conversion.

Does pedal force required to move rudder increase as speed increases and decrease near stall?

February 13

7 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Does pedal force required to move rudder increase as speed increases and decrease near stall?

Yes, There is "spring dynamic" option in rhino vp configurator which changes spring force effect according to speed. To be honest I would prefer higher spring forces from my Rhino ffb MFg rudder pedals modification but that has to do with the strength of the motor. I think that the guy would built my modification is planning to build a new one with stronger motor. That would be perfect!

February 13

16 hours ago, dgiatr said:

Yes, There is "spring dynamic" option in rhino vp configurator which changes spring force effect according to speed. To be honest I would prefer higher spring forces from my Rhino ffb MFg rudder pedals modification but that has to do with the strength of the motor. I think that the guy would built my modification is planning to build a new one with stronger motor. That would be perfect!

I have considered the TPR ffb mod, but have concern over motor strength and cooling, especially with the version that uses internal mounting of the motor. The ffBeast rudder pedals would seem to offer more motor power, but use different software and pretty much are one-off customs so both are kind of a dilemma for the present.🤔

Edited February 13 by Dagwoodyt

February 14

9 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I have considered the TPR ffb mod, but have concern over motor strength and cooling, especially with the version that uses internal mounting of the motor. The ffBeast rudder pedals would seem to offer more motor power, but use different software and pretty much are one-off customs so both are kind of a dilemma for the present.🤔

TPR mod uses stronger motor than MFG modification but I don't know how much force TPR needs to work compared to MFG it has to do with their internal construction. In my case I use an air fan to cool down my ffb RHINO MFG rudder pedals motor and not have any issues till now.

March 8

A modified version of the "rail" pedals.

March 9

Time for another awkward question:

Will these pedals generate different forces for aircraft whose rudder lies within the slipstream or propwash, and those on which it does not?

The two should be very dis-similar.

March 9

30 минут назад, Cynic_Al сказал:

Time for another awkward question:

Will these pedals generate different forces for aircraft whose rudder lies within the slipstream or propwash, and those on which it does not?

The two should be very dis-similar.

I'm not quite sure if I translated your question correctly... but I'll try to answer.
When parked with the engine off, the pedals do not experience the "spring" effect with a return to the center, unless of course you have configured the "spring" for the pedals.
After the engine starts, the pedals will take the central position. The speed and force with which the pedals will return to the center after the engine starts depends on your settings in the configurator responsible for this effect.
Also, in flight, the load on the pedals depends on the flight speed.

March 9

33 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

Time for another awkward question:

Will these pedals generate different forces for aircraft whose rudder lies within the slipstream or propwash, and those on which it does not?

The two should be very dis-similar.

2 minutes ago, GVL224 said:

I'm not quite sure if I translated your question correctly... but I'll try to answer.
When parked with the engine off, the pedals do not experience the "spring" effect with a return to the center, unless of course you have configured the "spring" for the pedals.
After the engine starts, the pedals will take the central position. The speed and force with which the pedals will return to the center after the engine starts depends on your settings in the configurator responsible for this effect.
Also, in flight, the load on the pedals depends on the flight speed.

About the propwash-slipstream , I think he means ...for example when you are on the runway and be prepared to take off your plane which is still steady and suddenly you push the throttle to max full...then propeller air stream will hit the rudder on its left side and not on its right side at the same time or vice versa..then spring effect on rudder pedals should not be equal left side to right side but unequal....

March 9

5 часов назад, dgiatr сказал:

About the propwash-slipstream , I think he means ...for example when you are on the runway and be prepared to take off your plane which is still steady and suddenly you push the throttle to max full...then propeller air stream will hit the rudder on its left side and not on its right side at the same time or vice versa..then spring effect on rudder pedals should not be equal left side to right side but unequal....

And does the game's telemetry convey this value?

I am not the author of the software and do not know all the possibilities and parameters calculated by the controller from the game. I implement the mechanics. Such questions are best asked to the author of the firmware and all the FFBeast software, Roman will definitely be able to answer your questions regarding the capabilities of his program.

March 9

1 hour ago, GVL224 said:

And does the game's telemetry convey this value?

I am not the author of the software and do not know all the possibilities and parameters calculated by the controller from the game. I implement the mechanics. Such questions are best asked to the author of the firmware and all the FFBeast software, Roman will definitely be able to answer your questions regarding the capabilities of his program.

Yes you are right, I don't think that game gives such a Telemetry values...

March 13

On 3/9/2025 at 11:41 AM, GVL224 said:

'm not quite sure if I translated your question correctly...

That is a curse we'll never escape. I'll try to simplify things. For the purposes of this question, the word 'slipstream' is used to mean the airflow generated by an airccraft propeller. On most (if not all) single engined propeller-driven aircraft, the rudder is positioned within the slipstream. On some multi-engine aircraft, the rudder is not positioned within the slipstream of any propeller, meaning that different forces can be expected. Can these pedals provide credible force-feedback for both scenarios?

This is really an extension of a previous question, namely: In the apparent absence of FFB telemetry for the rudder, what data is being used to generate feedback forces?

On 3/9/2025 at 7:24 PM, dgiatr said:

Such questions are best asked to the author of the firmware and all the FFBeast software

To promote your pruduct accurately, that person needs to make himself available here.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has any English-speaker here gambled on these pedals?

March 14

20 часов назад, Cynic_Al сказал:

That is a curse we'll never escape. I'll try to simplify things. For the purposes of this question, the word 'slipstream' is used to mean the airflow generated by an airccraft propeller. On most (if not all) single engined propeller-driven aircraft, the rudder is positioned within the slipstream. On some multi-engine aircraft, the rudder is not positioned within the slipstream of any propeller, meaning that different forces can be expected. Can these pedals provide credible force-feedback for both scenarios?

This is really an extension of a previous question, namely: In the apparent absence of FFB telemetry for the rudder, what data is being used to generate feedback forces?

I'll try to answer.
The effects setup program has a parameter responsible for the relationship between the propeller speed and the force that appears on the control surfaces. That is, if you stand at a stop with the engine turned off, the rudder and elevator will not have the strength to be set to the center (unless, of course, you have set up a "mechanical spring" on these surfaces). But after starting the engine and increasing the propeller speed, the surfaces will try to move to the center and, accordingly, the pedals will also move to the center themselves.
In flight, the force on the controls is adjusted depending on the flight speed, overload, and other parameters.

Here is a Discord channel dedicated to all FFBeast devices!
https://discord.gg/W4CvEDtJ
On this channel, a large part of the people communicate in English, including the author of the FFBeast project.

March 14

4 hours ago, GVL224 said:

I'll try to answer.
The effects setup program has a parameter responsible for the relationship between the propeller speed and the force that appears on the control surfaces. That is, if you stand at a stop with the engine turned off, the rudder and elevator will not have the strength to be set to the center (unless, of course, you have set up a "mechanical spring" on these surfaces). But after starting the engine and increasing the propeller speed, the surfaces will try to move to the center and, accordingly, the pedals will also move to the center themselves.
In flight, the force on the controls is adjusted depending on the flight speed, overload, and other parameters.

A most illuminating response; it's just a pity it doesn't fit the question.

4 hours ago, GVL224 said:

Here is a Discord channel dedicated to all FFBeast devices!
https://discord.gg/W4CvEDtJ
On this channel, a large part of the people communicate in English, including the author of the FFBeast project.

I think that should take place here, so everyone sees it.

March 14

12 минут назад, Cynic_Al сказал:

A most illuminating response; it's just a pity it doesn't fit the question.

Then I can't understand what effect you want from the simulator?
Getting into turbulence? And is it somehow transmitted in telemetry. As far as I know from my experience of real flights, getting into turbulence affects the entire plane, not the rudders...

12 минут назад, Cynic_Al сказал:

I think that should take place here, so everyone sees it.

Ask the question in Discord, and then transfer the answer here, or is it impossible?

March 21

13.03.2025 в 14:08, Cynic_Al сказал:

Can these pedals provide credible force-feedback for both scenarios?

It is not correct to address the question to the pedals. It is the question to what can be determined form telemetry the game provides. And what is already implemented. Pedals are just force device. They can produce any force that software ask it to reproduce. What about specific effects - at the moment most effects that was requested by pilots and correctly described how it should work - were implemented. If something is not implemented yet but possible to do with telemetry game gives us - it will be implemented. You need just describe effect correctly, how it should work, and it will be added in one of next software releases if it is possible with set of data provided by Il-2 game. You should understand that we do whatever possible, but not everything is in our hands, as we are limited with what devs of il-2 allows us to do.

March 23

On 3/21/2025 at 1:16 PM, propeler said:

It is not correct to address the question to the pedals. It is the question to what can be determined form telemetry the game provides. And what is already implemented.

I am aware of that. however we are discussing the capabilities of a commercial product, regardless of what may influence such capabilities.

On 3/21/2025 at 1:16 PM, propeler said:

at the moment most effects that was requested by pilots and correctly described how it should work - were implemented. If something is not implemented yet but possible to do with telemetry game gives us - it will be implemented. You need just describe effect correctly, how it should work, and it will be added in one of next software releases

I do not request any partcular effect; I am trying to determine how accurate the existing FFB effects are for aircraft of different configurations. From what you say, it is clear that some effects are being creatively inferred from the telemetry parameters available, therefore prospective purchasers should not expect anything more.

March 23

1 час назад, Cynic_Al сказал:

I am aware of that. however we are discussing the capabilities of a commercial product, regardless of what may influence such capabilities.

Well, even in that case - it's not a question to hardware. It is like asking how realistic is gaming on PC. It is as realistic as il-2 game is. No mater it is on AMD or Intel CPU.

1 час назад, Cynic_Al сказал:

I do not request any partcular effect; I am trying to determine how accurate the existing FFB effects are for aircraft of different configurations

It is definitely way more realistic then any controls without FFB It is as realistic as game + telemetry allows it to be.

May 16

https://gvl224.com/

May 16

On 3/23/2025 at 3:47 PM, propeler said:

It is as realistic as game + telemetry allows it to be.

That's the precise answer I wanted. You have done all you can, now it looks like the ball is in someone else's court; let's hope there's a player waiting there.

May 17

A production model of Throttle (Collective) is ready....

https://gvl224.com/throttle_ffb.php

June 15

Collective has a motor for feedback.
FFBeast firmware was used.

July 10

https://gvl224.com/joy_ffb.php

Joystick and pedals FFB.

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