Developer Blog #356: IAR 80 and Spitfire IXc updates, career mode, flight model, and control input improvements

[ACG_Cass]

2 hours ago, ICDP said:

The devs decided to use tactical mach as the dive limits and the way they implemented it was to have your aircraft fall apart.  Which I believe is the area of contention/confusion.

 

So a P47D may have higher critical mach number, than a late 109 or 190 but a lower tactical mach number.

Understood. I think there is still some differences in how they aircraft behave at the mach limit. The Spit IX seems to lose its ailerons immediately whilst the P51 will mach tuck pretty hard.

 

Even within the tactical limits there are differences, as you've pointed out with the 109G. 500mph limit indicated for the P47 was up to 10,000 feet, which even estimating a PEC of +15mph is .8 mach and that error is likely higher.

 

Pilots instructions also allowed up to 400mph at 25,000 feet, which is 0.85 mach factoring in an estimated PEC.

 

[ICDP]

All very true and show how the devs had to choose a one size fits all limit.  The RAE dive tests showing tactical Mach limits would be a fair bit lower than the critical Mach limits, or a point where a plane becomes combat ineffective.

 

Just for the record, I am not saying a P47 should fall apart sooner than a 109G or 190A.  Just trying to show the max dive limits the devs used have at least some basis in actual real flight test results.  How they manifest in structural break up is what I feel needs improved.

Edited February 8, 2024 by ICDP

[357th_KW]

Keep in mind, that 906 kph maximum true airspeed that was achieved in the Bf109 was not above the 750 kph indicated dive speed limit - it was roughly 670-680 kph indicated.  It's also worth noting, that the 109 in those tests had to have an extra trim tab added to the elevator in order for the pilot to have enough control authority to hold it in the dive but still recover.  It also had to have it's aileron travel locked at 50%, as the aileron reversals were so violent they were ripping the stick out of the pilot's hand (and they added an ejection seat as well, given how close they were to the edge).  In game, our 109s can safely exceed those numbers by A LOT - like high 800's indicated for the G's and even more for the K, with mach numbers in the .85-87 range.

 

So as @Charon noted, a big part of the problem for the 47 is that it's primary opponents are getting a big leg up here (likely because the basis of the FM for those aircraft is much older - I doubt anyone was thinking about high mach number dives from 30,000ft when BoS was being developed).

 

Edit: Just to add further to this - that 750 kph dive limit, was expanded to give altitude ranges, and was only good up to 3km - at the altitude where the modified aircraft hit 670-680 (about 6km), they decided on a limit of 575kph indicated for standard aircraft at that altitude.

Edited February 9, 2024 by 357th_KW