Karelia map discussion

[LukeFF]

Hey everyone! This is the official topic for discussing the upcoming Karelia map. 

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

I can't hardly wait to see it ... Love those Finn enthusiasts ...

Edited December 12, 2023 by =gRiJ=Roman-

[easterling77]

These Guys are the first ones who got me to use patreon - they deserve it and all support possible.?

[LLv44_Kanttori]

9 hours ago, easterling77 said:

These Guys are the first ones who got me to use patreon - they deserve it and all support possible.?

Thank you easternlig77 for your support, we really appreciate it and we also need community support to expand the map and pay for all the 3D buildings that we have to partially buy from professional 3D modelers. 

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A small Information About the Future of Karelia

The 410km x 410km map covers all relevant fronts of the Gulf of Finland and Lake Ladoga region, from the Winter War to Operation Barbarossa, the Siege of Leningrad and finally the Battles of the Karelian Isthmus and Narva. The time scale is really wide from November 1939 to September 1944 and all of them fit on our map. This is the only missing area of the WWII Eastern Front that has never been released to this extent in any flight simulator.



Click the map above to see the GUI map of Karelia with half resolution.

In the publication of the map next spring 2024, we will open about 280 km x 200 km flyable area, which will appear brighter on the map. Also, the expansion of the map to Ladoga Karelia in the North and Aunus' Karelia in the East and finally to the South of Leningrad over the next three years will depend on our IL-2 Sturmovik GB Community.

Since the Karelia map and its future campaigns are now free for all members of the gaming community, we need crowdfunding to further develop the map. Next year, we will use Patreon income for example to buy 3D models from our architecture students who have until now created them as part of an internship at TAMK school. In order to keep their enthusiasm for our cause goind it brings to KarttaKomppania.

We have to build the city of Leningrad mainly with paid models, because there are now only generic city buildings. We also need the landmarks of the cities of Finland and Karelia, such as the Kotka Sunila factories, the Apartment Stone Blocks of Vyborg's part of the city Repola, the Old Fortress of Lappeenranta and Olavinlinna Old Castle in Savonlinna town. The list is almost endless...?

We will also retroactively pay a small compensation for the thousands of hours of work done over five years to KarttaKomppania's hard-working landscapers and 3D modelers. Maybe then they will get a proper ham for their Christmas table... ?

To be continued later, but remember to support our work:
SUPPORT KARTTAKOMPPANIA

[Koziolek]

15 minutes ago, LLv44_Kanttori said:

Thank you easternlig77 for your support, we really appreciate it and we also need community support to expand the map and pay for all the 3D buildings that we have to partially buy from professional 3D modelers. 

'

You can count on me. Thanks for your effort

[Mtnbiker1998]

Very interested in this!!! But hoping we get more than just a map with no context. A career mode, Finnish radio comms, maybe even a couple collector planes would go a long way to making this feel like a proper, unique addon to the sim!!

[BMA_FlyingShark]

The map looks impressive, great attention to detail on those typical wooden houses and cabins of Northern Europe.

 

I hope however, that the map will be playable in mods off mode(for online play for instance).

 

Have a nice day.

 

[MajorMagee]

 

We'll have to start work on creating some Finnish Skins for their Armored Division that was operating near Petrozavodsk in 1942.

 

Perhaps someday we'll even have the right vehicles for the Battle of Narva in 1944.

[LLv44_Kanttori]

13 hours ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

Very interested in this!!! But hoping we get more than just a map with no context. A career mode, Finnish radio comms, maybe even a couple collector planes would go a long way to making this feel like a proper, unique addon to the sim!!

We have had a long discussions earlier with Jason Williams and nowadays with Han about the aircrafts we need, and my list of five new planes for the Finnish Air Force are in this picture from left to right: Our legendary Winter War fighter Fokker D.XXI, Brewster 239 (Butt Walther), Curtiss Hawk 75A (Sussu) and Fiat G.50 fighters + Blenheim IV (or some variant) bomber.  We will tell you more when there is something to tell about this issue. We also know the Russian aircarafts we need in our map.  

Please note that this is only for our wish list in KarttaKomppania and almost nothing has been agreed with the game developers about future planes. Or well.. it seems to be one of them.  

13 hours ago, MajorMagee said:

 

We'll have to start work on creating some Finnish Skins for their Armored Division that was operating near Petrozavodsk in 1942.

 

Perhaps someday we'll even have the right vehicles for the Battle of Narva in 1944.

 

HEllo MajorMagee!

We are very happy to cooperate with this Battle of Narva Campaign that is placed on our map. The land cover of the area is already in fairly good condition, but the road network and population are still missing. In the Mission Editor, you can, for example, start editing the area already if you have a qualified team to do it. And I'm serious, we don't have time just now but you can make the map remotely anywhere and share all the map files via the cloud to others! 

 

[migmadmarine]

Since FC got some asemetric packs, dream big and push for the Moraine Saulnier and Do-17 as well.  Know as a Finnofile I've been thinking hard on what I'd love to see in packs for this. 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

As an American who doesn't know much about this theater, very excited about this map and these scenarios! I do agree that some collector planes, radio comms, and a proper pilot model are in order also. 

[LLv44_Kanttori]

7 hours ago, migmadmarine said:

Since FC got some asemetric packs, dream big and push for the Moraine Saulnier and Do-17 as well.  Know as a Finnofile I've been thinking hard on what I'd love to see in packs for this. 

Ok Migmadmarine, here you get what you wanted and a little more! I also added some necessary Leningrad front Russian planes and soon Luftwaffe must be planes, as Rudel's old Junkers Ju87 A-2 Stuka! 

And as earlier please note that this is only for our wish list in KarttaKomppania and almost nothing has been agreed with the game developers about future planes. Or well.. it seems to be one of them.  

 

[migmadmarine]

At risk of turning this into plane wishlisting, I feel like I associate the SB with the theater a bit more strongly, but perhaps the DB would have more versatility.

 

Since I like making a squadron skin set for the co-op missions friends of mine and I run, usually with a tongue in cheek unit marking, I've already been having some fun with making a suitable Finnish set of markings for when this map comes out for us. 

 

Spoiler

 

(yes, it's Little Mai holding a knife)

 

[Juri_JS]

When we talk about possible aircraft for the map let's not forget the planes for 1943/1944.

 

Soviet:

A-20G

late Il-2

P-39Q

Tu-2

 

German:

Fw-189

Ju-87 D-5

 

 

[Missionbug]

Great to see this now has a dedicated section of its own.

 

A question for LLv44_Kanttori on the funding issue for further development if I may. I think it was mentioned that the first iteration of this map will be issued free to IL-2 GB users and my thoughts are would it not have been better to just sell it to the community as probably a more viable way of funding it?

 

I am sure there would be enough people out there with an interest in the region who would actually dig into their pockets to support development by simply buying the existing map in the form it will be released, that would surely be a more visible way to garner funds than a separate Patreon page that most might not actually see or visit let alone be in a financial situation that allows them to pay regular membership fees, I am all for a free gift but considering the years of hard work you guys have put in it seems to me a strange way to go.

 

Please could someone enlighten me on the topic of game development funding, I tend to prefer the Pre-payment development method used here so far to bring each DLC to fruition as do many I think, so in what way does crowd funding or other ways actually benefit the map developer as far as raising the necessary funds to develop the map further?

 

As for 3d assets I would think there might be a few willing members out there able to furnish a few if they are aware of the technicaliities of what you require.

 

Sorry, a confused sim fan more used to playing the game than funding things and probably just too used to a certain way of doing things.

 

As for the aircraft lists from readers, bring them all on I say.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Missionbug

[Robli]

Great to see this getting closer to completion. Have been looking forward to any news about this project for a long time. Always had faith that work was still getting done on it. 

This topic is listed under "Mods" section, but I hope and trust that it will be integral part of the game and not a separately installed mod?

 

 

[LLv44_Kanttori]

5 hours ago, migmadmarine said:

At risk of turning this into plane wishlisting, I feel like I associate the SB with the theater a bit more strongly, but perhaps the DB would have more versatility.

 

Since I like making a squadron skin set for the co-op missions friends of mine and I run, usually with a tongue in cheek unit marking, I've already been having some fun with making a suitable Finnish set of markings for when this map comes out for us

Iljušin DB-3F (aka IL-4) was common Russian bomber in Lenigrad front as well as on other eastern fronts so it would also be useful in other parts of GB. Finland also had them as war booty planes, which were often bought from German war booty warehouses during the Continuation War.

[Hanu]

1 hour ago, Robli said:

This topic is listed under "Mods" section, but I hope and trust that it will be integral part of the game and not a separately installed mod?

Good point, that sure looks weird? AFAIK this will not be a mod. Perhaps @LukeFF comments this or moves to correct section.

[LLv32_Jami]

Thumbs up for the SB-2. It was very important soviet plane during the Winter War and FAF used them during 1941-42.

[LLv44_Kanttori]

2 hours ago, Robli said:

Great to see this getting closer to completion. Have been looking forward to any news about this project for a long time. Always had faith that work was still getting done on it. 

This topic is listed under "Mods" section, but I hope and trust that it will be integral part of the game and not a separately installed mod?

 

 

Karelia is going to be integral part of the game. We will be doing a lot of Campaigns that players will also get for free with the map and also afterwards, because there will be no shortage of historical battles in the area of the map. An example of the campaigns is the Filght Detachment Kuhlmey Campaign made by our "brother in arms" Juri_JS, which will be completed at the same time as the map is published next spring. JuriJS presents its great campaign at Christmas time to everyone here and on our Patreon pages as well.

 

Flight Detachment Kuhlmeys Junkers Ju87 Stuka on Immola Airfield June 1944.
 

The young Stuka pilots and their gunners sit on top of 250 kg bombs during a short break between their war flights.

[Mtnbiker1998]

6 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

When we talk about possible aircraft for the map let's not forget the planes for 1943/1944.

 

Soviet:

A-20G

late Il-2

P-39Q

Tu-2

 

German:

Fw-189

Ju-87 D-5

 

 

A-20G and P-39Q would get my money for sure!!

[Enceladus828]

Will there be any new ships with this map?

 

If not that’s totally fine.

[Juri_JS]

5 hours ago, Hanu said:

Good point, that sure looks weird? AFAIK this will not be a mod. Perhaps @LukeFF comments this or moves to correct section.

Now it's in the scripted campaign forum, which is still not ideal. ?

 

Maybe it's time for a 3rd party developer subforum.

[Jaegermeister]

7 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

Now it's in the scripted campaign forum, which is still not ideal. ?

 

Maybe it's time for a 3rd party developer subforum.

 

There won't be many of us there, but I'm all for it, LOL. Hopefully there will be more in the future.

[Juri_JS]

13 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

Will there be any new ships with this map?

 

If not that’s totally fine.

In all probability, yes. Although at the moment you shouldn't expect something large like the Väinämöinen.

 

Maybe it would be a good idea to make a list of ships that would be useful on the map. Any suggestions?

 

 

[Hanu]

12 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

Now it's in the scripted campaign forum, which is still not ideal. ?

 

Ok, not ideal sure, but still better. ?

[LLv44_Mprhead]

1 hour ago, Juri_JS said:

In all probability, yes. Although at the moment you shouldn't expect something large like the Väinämöinen.

 

Maybe it would be a good idea to make a list of ships that would be useful on the map. Any suggestions?

 

 

For lake Ladoga at least MAS torpedo boats and Siebel ferrys. Ofc these are quite small craft and not very glorious...

[KodiakJac]

On 12/12/2023 at 2:04 PM, LLv44_Kanttori said:

Since the Karelia map and its future campaigns are now free for all members of the gaming community...

 

Is the plan that the Karelia map and some official scripted campaigns will be included in IL-2 Great Battles for free, and then we will pay for additional scripted campaigns and collector aircraft?  I'm all for supporting your efforts, just curious how you/1C are planning to go forward with the implementation.

 

Thanks! 

[Robli]

3 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

Maybe it would be a good idea to make a list of ships that would be useful on the map. Any suggestions?

 

Thinking of capital ships, Russian battleship Marat is of course famous, but maybe mostly for being sunk by Rudel & Co. Also other Russian ships that were in blockade in Kronstadt would make sense. I also think that this German radar ship was very interesting, can't recall it's name right now. 

[Juri_JS]

4 minutes ago, Robli said:

 

Thinking of capital ships, Russian battleship Marat is of course famous, but maybe mostly for being sunk by Rudel & Co. Also other Russian ships that were in blockade in Kronstadt would make sense. I also think that this German radar ship was very interesting, can't recall it's name right now. 

I guess you mean nightfighter direction ship Togo. As far as I know it was active in the Helsinki and Tallinn area, which is outside the Karelia map borders.

[Robli]

8 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

I guess you mean nightfighter direction ship Togo. As far as I know it was active in the Helsinki and Tallinn area, which is outside the Karelia map borders.

 

Yes, that's the one. I know it's role was to provide night fighter cover for Helsinki and Tallinn, but I had an impression that it was based in Kotka harbour. I could also remember wrong and I guess it is not really important asset for this Karelia map, but it was kind of a cool ship in it's own way.

[Juri_JS]

14 minutes ago, Robli said:

 

Yes, that's the one. I know it's role was to provide night fighter cover for Helsinki and Tallinn, but I had an impression that it was based in Kotka harbour. I could also remember wrong and I guess it is not really important asset for this Karelia map, but it was kind of a cool ship in it's own way.

Flak cruiser Niobe was based at Kotka, where it was sunk on 16 July 1944 by an air attack.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

From what you can collect from pilot memoirs shipping was mainly smaller ships, torpedo boats, occasional submarines. West of the barricading sub net was more traffic. Also upkeep/maintenance of the submarine net caused traffic, which was often attacked by IL-2's and Bostons(A-20). Russian Navy was basically locked into Kronstadt serving as AA and supporting artillery.

Edited December 14, 2023 by LLv34_Flanker

[LeLv30_Redwing-]

On 12/14/2023 at 11:30 AM, KodiakJac said:

 

Is the plan that the Karelia map and some official scripted campaigns will be included in IL-2 Great Battles for free, and then we will pay for additional scripted campaigns and collector aircraft?  I'm all for supporting your efforts, just curious how you/1C are planning to go forward with the implementation.

 

Thanks! 

Yes, what is planned is that the community will have the Karelia map for free and it will include also a free campaign by Juri_JS. Future plans are been discussed and decided together with the game developers and more info released when the time is right.

Karttakomppania do welcome all support via https://www.patreon.com/KarttaKomppania and with the support can continue building more and faster content for the map. Karttakomppania also encourages 3d modelers or any talented persons, who think they could contribute to this project to contact and help out!

Edited December 16, 2023 by LeLv30_Redwing

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

What about a Crowdfunding system to see if a real set of planes (about 10) will be feasible for this map?

I would buy it at the usual price without blinking! ?

 

[Trooper117]

2 hours ago, LeLv30_Redwing said:

with the game developers and more info released when the time is right.

 

2 weeks then... 

[LLv44_Kanttori]

On 12/13/2023 at 12:48 PM, Missionbug said:

Great to see this now has a dedicated section of its own.

 

A question for LLv44_Kanttori on the funding issue for further development if I may. I think it was mentioned that the first iteration of this map will be issued free to IL-2 GB users and my thoughts are would it not have been better to just sell it to the community as probably a more viable way of funding it?

 

I am sure there would be enough people out there with an interest in the region who would actually dig into their pockets to support development by simply buying the existing map in the form it will be released, that would surely be a more visible way to garner funds than a separate Patreon page that most might not actually see or visit let alone be in a financial situation that allows them to pay regular membership fees, I am all for a free gift but considering the years of hard work you guys have put in it seems to me a strange way to go.

 

Please could someone enlighten me on the topic of game development funding, I tend to prefer the Pre-payment development method used here so far to bring each DLC to fruition as do many I think, so in what way does crowd funding or other ways actually benefit the map developer as far as raising the necessary funds to develop the map further?

 

As for 3d assets I would think there might be a few willing members out there able to furnish a few if they are aware of the technicaliities of what you require.

 

Sorry, a confused sim fan more used to playing the game than funding things and probably just too used to a certain way of doing things.

 

As for the aircraft lists from readers, bring them all on I say.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

Hello Missionbug and sorry my late answer, I have a lot of map worx, but maybe you can quess it...  

I don't want to go into details here, but for various reasons and after long discussions the team has decided to make the map available for free to the community. If it was just about making money, selling the map as DLC would have probably been the more profitable option. But instead, we decided to try to raise the necessary funds to improve the map and increase the map size after the initial release through a crowdfunding campaign. This hasn’t been done before in Il-2 GB, so we don’t really know how much support we can expect. It will be an experiment and we will see how well such a crowdfunding approach will work in our community.

 

What we can already guarantee at this point is, that the 280 km x 200 km version of the map shown above will be released next year, no matter what. To what extent and how fast we can further improve the map and increase the flyable area will depend on the support we get from the community.

Creating the large number of 3D assets for the Karelia map is the greatest challenge for us at the moment. Many objects have already been created, but many others are still missing and there is more than enough work for people with experience in 3D modeling, who are interested in helping us. If anyone with the necessary skills likes to help us, please send me a PM and we can discuss the details. 

[Viktor33_33]

On 12/14/2023 at 9:03 AM, Juri_JS said:

In all probability, yes. Although at the moment you shouldn't expect something large like the Väinämöinen.

 

Maybe it would be a good idea to make a list of ships that would be useful on the map. Any suggestions?

 

 

MO-2

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Viktor33_33

[migmadmarine]

6 hours ago, LLv44_Kanttori said:

Hello Missionbug and sorry my late answer, I have a lot of map worx, but maybe you can quess it...  

I don't want to go into details here, but for various reasons and after long discussions the team has decided to make the map available for free to the community. If it was just about making money, selling the map as DLC would have probably been the more profitable option. But instead, we decided to try to raise the necessary funds to improve the map and increase the map size after the initial release through a crowdfunding campaign. This hasn’t been done before in Il-2 GB, so we don’t really know how much support we can expect. It will be an experiment and we will see how well such a crowdfunding approach will work in our community.

 

What we can already guarantee at this point is, that the 280 km x 200 km version of the map shown above will be released next year, no matter what. To what extent and how fast we can further improve the map and increase the flyable area will depend on the support we get from the community.

Creating the large number of 3D assets for the Karelia map is the greatest challenge for us at the moment. Many objects have already been created, but many others are still missing and there is more than enough work for people with experience in 3D modeling, who are interested in helping us. If anyone with the necessary skills likes to help us, please send me a PM and we can discuss the details.

I am looking at learning blender, might you take submissions for some simple objects from an inexperienced person?

[Missionbug]

13 hours ago, migmadmarine said:

I am looking at learning blender, might you take submissions for some simple objects from an inexperienced person?

 

I have always used an old stripped down version of 3ds known as gmax that shipped as an SDK with Microsoft Flight and have made quite a few things for the old IL-2, see SAS site, but I also recently embarked on a trial tutorial from Udemy using Blender. 

 

There is much for me to learn, it is such a capable piece of software that at one time I dared not open it and it sat on the hard drive in various updates for years just gathering dust as they say,  finally though I took the plunge!

 

Now thankfully after a few sessions doing the various lessons included in the tutorial I am less terrified of opening it than I was, so, onward and upward to both of us may we one day make something of choice for our favourite modern sims with Blender.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Missionbug