Friendly fire

[greybeard_52]

It happens to me during single missions (generated by TheOden's DCG). In following video you can see the tail gunner of my leader's Bf 110C-6 firing at me. This happened during a fight against Hurricanes, close to British coast, and again when we was in the vicinity of our home base. No anomalies during all the rest of flight.

 

https://youtu.be/l4jJ6j-61GA

Edited November 17, 2023 by greybeard_52
Added link

[major_setback]

6 hours ago, greybeard_52 said:

It happens to me during single missions (generated by TheOden's DCG). In following video you can see the tail gunner of my leader's Bf 110C-6 firing at me. This happened during a fight against Hurricanes, close to British coast, and again when we was in the vicinity of our home base. No anomalies during all the rest of flight.

 

 

 

Is it me, or is the video not working? Is it embedded correctly?

[greybeard_52]

10 minutes ago, major_setback said:

Is it me, or is the video not working? Is it embedded correctly?

For me it works fine... At any rate I just added relevant link.

[Mysticpuma]

1 hour ago, major_setback said:

 

Is it me, or is the video not working? Is it embedded correctly?

Working fine here. 

[major_setback]

On 11/18/2023 at 12:37 AM, Mysticpuma said:

Working fine here. 

 

Working for me now

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Going back to these missions with friendlies firing at the player, maybe they are friendly only regarding the types and the skins, but not the side officially registered in the code, which could have been wrongly registered by default. Dunno... I'm guessing only...

[jcole]

Shoot back………

[AKA_PumpkiCraterman1]

6 minutes ago, jcole said:

Shoot back………

?  Did you look behind  you?  You might some emnies  on your arse.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

A British roundel on a skin that cloths a given plane... is not the side that the game registers for the plane... nor is a "Balkenkreuz" on a skin. Only the factual register in the game user interface or even in the code is taken into account. I know the AI causes some trouble in this game, but it's the first time I hear that. Thus, in my opinion, must be a configuration problem.

[Volant_Eagle]

@greybeard_52, is it possible that you accidentally shot that Bf 110 or any other friendly aircraft during the mission? CloD has a feature where friendly aircraft (or at least their gunners) can turn against you if you shoot them.

 

I discovered this awhile ago when I was doing gunnery practice in SP. I am still very confused as to what parameters cause this since it doesn’t happen consistently but it definitely does happen.

 

I specifically tried to test this yesterday and got some rather confusing results. I built a mission in FMB where I was to fly a Hurricane Mk I (Red) following a formation of 4 Wellington Mk I’s (also Red) in line abreast formation. I set “vulnerability” to off in the realism settings for practical reasons. Here is a summary of what happened:

 

I came up behind the bomber on the far right and fired a short burst into it. Immediately I began receiving return fire from both the bomber I hit, and the next bomber to the left which I had not fired on. I flew closely between the bombers and they continued to shoot at me the whole time as I passed by. I then passed close by the other 2 bombers on the far left of the formation and neither of them fired a shot. I made a wide circle back around to the far right bomber and as I approached they were no longer shooting at me. I wasn’t sure whether it was me leaving and coming back that caused them to stop, or if it was the amount of time. So I fired at the far right bomber again and decided to stay close by them for a while. Once again, I immediately began receiving fire from both the bomber I had shot and the one next to it. I stayed with the formation weaving back forth through it closely. The 2 on the right continued to fire at me for at least 5 minutes while the 2 on the left completely ignored me. Eventually the 2 on the right did stop firing, but it took at least 5 min so it was likely due to ammo exhaustion. (I did have ammo set to unlimited. Not sure if that setting applies to just the player or to all aircraft in the mission.) After that I fired at both aircraft on the right and got no response anymore. Thinking they were likely out of ammo, I moved to the bombers on left who hadn’t fired a shot the whole time. To my surprise I got no response whatsoever from either of them when I hit them.

 

I think it’s really cool that this sim supports such a feature. I was pleasantly surprised when I first came across this behavior. A feature like this in general is very realistic. Friendly fire incidents happened a lot and and always put the fired upon aircraft in a tough predicament. Either they’d assume the plane firing at them must be hostile and fired back, or they’d realize the mistake being made but still have to somehow avoid getting killed. A few months ago I was reading about the Battle of France and came across a report where a French fighter (can’t remember the type) attacked a French Potez 63. (The Potez 63’s were common friendly fire targets as they look very similar to a Bf 110.) The Potez recognized the error being made, but the fighter did not and continued the attack. With no choice but to defend himself at that point, the gunner returned fire and shot down the fighter unfortunately killing the pilot.

 

Although I like that this feature exists, the particular way in which this feature is currently implemented seems to be very problematic and unrealistic. Either it has bugs or the logic for this mechanic was poorly thought through. Hopefully it gets reworked at some point.

[Buzzsaw]

On 12/13/2023 at 10:10 AM, Volant_Eagle said:

@greybeard_52, is it possible that you accidentally shot that Bf 110 or any other friendly aircraft during the mission? CloD has a feature where friendly aircraft (or at least their gunners) can turn against you if you shoot them.

 

I discovered this awhile ago when I was doing gunnery practice in SP. I am still very confused as to what parameters cause this since it doesn’t happen consistently but it definitely does happen.

 

I specifically tried to test this yesterday and got some rather confusing results. I built a mission in FMB where I was to fly a Hurricane Mk I (Red) following a formation of 4 Wellington Mk I’s (also Red) in line abreast formation. I set “vulnerability” to off in the realism settings for practical reasons. Here is a summary of what happened:

 

I came up behind the bomber on the far right and fired a short burst into it. Immediately I began receiving return fire from both the bomber I hit, and the next bomber to the left which I had not fired on. I flew closely between the bombers and they continued to shoot at me the whole time as I passed by. I then passed close by the other 2 bombers on the far left of the formation and neither of them fired a shot. I made a wide circle back around to the far right bomber and as I approached they were no longer shooting at me. I wasn’t sure whether it was me leaving and coming back that caused them to stop, or if it was the amount of time. So I fired at the far right bomber again and decided to stay close by them for a while. Once again, I immediately began receiving fire from both the bomber I had shot and the one next to it. I stayed with the formation weaving back forth through it closely. The 2 on the right continued to fire at me for at least 5 minutes while the 2 on the left completely ignored me. Eventually the 2 on the right did stop firing, but it took at least 5 min so it was likely due to ammo exhaustion. (I did have ammo set to unlimited. Not sure if that setting applies to just the player or to all aircraft in the mission.) After that I fired at both aircraft on the right and got no response anymore. Thinking they were likely out of ammo, I moved to the bombers on left who hadn’t fired a shot the whole time. To my surprise I got no response whatsoever from either of them when I hit them.

 

I think it’s really cool that this sim supports such a feature. I was pleasantly surprised when I first came across this behavior. A feature like this in general is very realistic. Friendly fire incidents happened a lot and and always put the fired upon aircraft in a tough predicament. Either they’d assume the plane firing at them must be hostile and fired back, or they’d realize the mistake being made but still have to somehow avoid getting killed. A few months ago I was reading about the Battle of France and came across a report where a French fighter (can’t remember the type) attacked a French Potez 63. (The Potez 63’s were common friendly fire targets as they look very similar to a Bf 110.) The Potez recognized the error being made, but the fighter did not and continued the attack. With no choice but to defend himself at that point, the gunner returned fire and shot down the fighter unfortunately killing the pilot.

 

Although I like that this feature exists, the particular way in which this feature is currently implemented seems to be very problematic and unrealistic. Either it has bugs or the logic for this mechanic was poorly thought through. Hopefully it gets reworked at some point.

Yes, the feature of friendlies firing back if fired on is a part of the game.  (random chance of firing back)

 

We have not looked at the AI modeling as it rarely occurs.

 

It would be down our list of changes which we plan for the AI in TF 6.0.