More brake power

[LF_Mark_Krieger]

I am surprised with the fact that most planes have much less brake power than they should, for what I have seen in historical documentation. For example, brakes of the P-38 could hold the plane on firm ground with 3000 RPM and 40" of manifold pressure. In the game, the plane starts moving when you reach 30" although you hold the brakes at maximum. And now I can't recall the historical data for every plane, but most people that know about that, says brakes in IL-2 are too weak by far in general.

I don't know the reason for that, but I think that is an important matter that should be adressed. Perhaps it is done intentionally to make braking easier for players who don't have pedals or an axis for brakes? If that's the case, perhaps could be implemented a realist vs assisted brake in the realism options menu?

I'm not sure of it, but I think that changing the brakes power to a more real one is a relativelly easy change that can be done and an important one for taxiing, take off and landing procedures.

In the minute 6:40 we can see the power of the brakes of the P-38 in reality.
 

 

Edited April 22, 2024 by LF_Mark_Krieger

[LF_Asger]

Thanks for the post, Mark!! Surely, someone should look into this. 

[LuftManu]

Would be really good to have this implemented ?

I swear I heard it was to help people without toe brakes, but I think an special option could be a better option. 

[czech693]

My two cents worth, but I would think it's just the opposite.  The toe brakes are set on an axis and can be applied gradually, while brakes on keyboard buttons are all or nothing.  Imagine trying to slow down on landing and applying both brakes fully with the buttons.

[LF_Mark_Krieger]

1 hour ago, czech693 said:

My two cents worth, but I would think it's just the opposite.  The toe brakes are set on an axis and can be applied gradually, while brakes on keyboard buttons are all or nothing.  Imagine trying to slow down on landing and applying both brakes fully with the buttons.

I think we are all saying the same. I played during a lot of years without pedals or even a decent joystick and I always used brakes intermitently with some button of the keyboard. Making the brakes less powerful I supose it helped with the landing. Anyway in real life with most planes it was encouraged to use them the minimum possible and intermitently. I think developers could find a solution like a realist/soft brakes option so it would not be a problem for players without pedals. Anyway I think it would be perfectly possible (although somewhat more difficult) to land the planes with realist brakes with the keyboard. It just would require especial attention to brake intermitently and not holding the brakes pressed.

[LF_Sire]

Yes, if it is accurately historic, why not if this is a sim?

[Yogiflight]

I asked about that issue years ago, when we still had the 'Questions for Developers' thread in the 'General Discussions'. The answer from Han was, the braking power of the aircrafts is set that strong, that the way the aircrafts need to brake to a stand when landing, is historically correct. The issue in my eyes is, in game the effectivity of the brakes is the same at all speeds, not like in real life, when your brakes are much more effective, at low speeds, or of course when you are standing.

[LF_Mark_Krieger]

1 hour ago, Yogiflight said:

I asked about that issue years ago, when we still had the 'Questions for Developers' thread in the 'General Discussions'. The answer from Han was, the braking power of the aircrafts is set that strong, that the way the aircrafts need to brake to a stand when landing, is historically correct. The issue in my eyes is, in game the effectivity of the brakes is the same at all speeds, not like in real life, when your brakes are much more effective, at low speeds, or of course when you are standing.

Perhaps this is the problem. I detect specially the lack of power when standing. And I can only demonstrate it's not enough power for example in the case of the P-38 when it's stationary. But perhaps the efectiveness at high speed is correct. Unfortunatelly I don't have enough data to confirm if at higher speed the brakes work correctly.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

Brakes are really weak, I agree. @LukeFF Could the team look into this? Shouldn't be too hard to make a global adjustment? The Spit IMO is the worst offender.

[LukeFF]

28 minutes ago, drewm3i-VR said:

Brakes are really weak, I agree. @LukeFF Could the team look into this? Shouldn't be too hard to make a global adjustment? The Spit IMO is the worst offender.

 

I'll see! In the meantime, this topic might shed some light on why things are the way they are: 

 

[Soilworker]

I think I've actually advocated for exactly this ages ago, would be great if it could get some more traction. 

 

(Edit: Pun was not intended! ?) 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Soilworker

[Cynic_Al]

The solution to this problem couldn't be simpler and doesn't require a user option.  The game software 'knows' the type of control (button/axis) being used, so if it's a button, apply a safe braking effort, otherwise historic. Sorted.

[Cynic_Al]

On 11/15/2023 at 1:51 PM, LF_Mark_Krieger said:

In the minute 6:40 we can see the power of the brakes of the P-38 in reality.

 

12:30 I wonder if the game should model needing to pump the brakes to build pressure. Maybe not.

[LF_Mark_Krieger]

3 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

12:30 I wonder if the game should model needing to pump the brakes to build pressure. Maybe not.

I would love a complete simulation like that, but of course that would be more expensive. Perhaps in the new project?

[Soilworker]

15 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

12:30 I wonder if the game should model needing to pump the brakes to build pressure. Maybe not.

 

Certainly a neat idea ?

But yeah, might be a tad overkill. 

[Charon]

Even if the current model is inaccurate, IMO changes to this should be a very low priority. Hydraulic fluid leaks and loss of braking due to combat damage would be much more interesting to model and to the core experience.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Breaks are weak , I think this is  better if they would go 100% in one second . Better solution for keyboard and axis would be if breaks become progressively stronger in time when you are holding the button. This way you can also realistically hold the plane on the runway. Axis should have linear curve of course.

Edited December 2, 2023 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk