Mission statement...

[Zooropa_Fly]

The devs have made their statement - they're a few months away from any significant announcement.

Is there any point in continuing to be the 'kid in the back of the car' - continuously repeating are we there yet Dad ? 

[Trooper117]

No we aren't there yet, but this might keep you all enthralled until we get there... come on kids, sing along with Sooty!

 

 

[JFM]

3 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

It's not wrong. How can you stay away when we have the possibility of new adventures and planes to fly? I have heard this is definitely in the new program...

 

  Hide contents

 

Bring it on! (Without the toilet ?) IMO so many awesome planes like Skyraiders to fly, and with a love of ground-pounding, I’d be all over a Korea sim. My only dislike would be no carriers—Essex, Antietam, Princeton, Valley Forge, Boxer, Philippine Sea, Bon Homme Richard, Kearsarge, Oriskany etc had numerous deployments in the war with Corsairs, Skyraiders, Panthers. Plus HMS Triumph, Colossus, Theseus, Ocesn, Glory, HMAS Sydney, Seafires, Fireflies, Sea Furies... How can they leave all that out? Still, flying Mustangs, Twin Mustangs, Skynights, Invaders, Thunderjets, Sabres, Superforts, USMC Corsairs and Panthers, etc., even Dragonflies, would be awesome. 
 

So, Korea is my #1 choice behind the WW2 PTO, which Combat Pilot is doing. I have no interest in MTO, CBI, Africa. However, I had no interest in the Easter Front when IL2 was released and yet have had decades of enjoyment with the various sims. So, I’m grabbing whatever they release. 

[Gambit21]

Spoiler

@ITAF_Rani

 

Do you know what utilizes these rounds?

 

 

[Gambit21]

4 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

No we aren't there yet, but this might keep you all enthralled until we get there... come on kids, sing along with Sooty!

 

 

10 green bottles, take away one, and we have?

 

“68 red bottles!!”

 

No…no, go back and listen to the Q/A and also research the history of subtraction, and actually LOOK at the bottles.

 

”Oh you have a crystal ball? 68 red bottles!”

[R33GZ]

7 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

It's not wrong. How can you stay away when we have the possibility of new adventures and planes to fly? I have heard this is definitely in the new program...

 

  Hide contents

 

We're getting vietnam carrier ops!? Freakin awesome!

5 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Do you really think there isn’t going to be any bickering and sniping when they announce the next project?  Because that feels unlikely.

Have a look at the Combat Pilot site, where plenty of information and progress is displayed. No bickering there. Why? Because the direction and development is known. In fact, that site is generally full of enthusiasm and support... this one? Not so much.

[BraveSirRobin]

21 hours ago, R33GZ said:

Have a look at the Combat Pilot site, where plenty of information and progress is displayed. No bickering there. Why? Because the direction and development is known. In fact, that site is generally full of enthusiasm and support... this one? Not so much.

 

There's no bickering because there is nothing to talk about.  It's vaporware.  There's a good chance that it's never going to happen.  

[BraveSirRobin]

Not sure why anyone would be confused about this.  If Combat Pilot were a sure thing they’d be accepting pre-orders.

[Gambit21]

@ITAF_Rani I apologize for taking so long to post this buddy, it's been a busy day. I know you were looking for clarification on "new ammunition" etc

I hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

[Jaegermeister]

5 hours ago, R33GZ said:

We're getting vietnam carrier ops!? Freakin awesome!

 

I doubt it, I was referring to the new ordnance...

[R33GZ]

2 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

I doubt it, I was referring to the new ordnance...

I know. Ironically, the pic of that beautiful machine you posted was an A-1 of USN Yankee Station vintage ?

[ITAF_Rani]

7 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

@ITAF_Rani I apologize for taking so long to post this buddy, it's been a busy day. I know you were looking for clarification on "new ammunition" etc

I hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks...I didn' t sleep all night long waiting for this...

[CountZero]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:55 PM, Zooropa_Fly said:

The devs have made their statement - they're a few months away from any significant announcement.

Is there any point in continuing to be the 'kid in the back of the car' - continuously repeating are we there yet Dad ? 

only thing that i see wrong is to not clearly say to ppl that they are building new game, as some ppl think next thing they are doing is gona be compatable with stuff we have here, and then buying stuff for this game is waist of money then

[BraveSirRobin]

10 minutes ago, CountZero said:

only thing that i see wrong is to not clearly say to ppl that they are building new game, as some ppl think next thing they are doing is gona be compatable with stuff we have here, and then buying stuff for this game is waist of money then

Why is buying stuff for this game a waste of money?  

[EAF19_Marsh]

On 11/17/2023 at 2:52 PM, BraveSirRobin said:

That’s really the only thing that matters. 
 

We’ve had about 50 threads to discuss what the upcoming project will be.  So people are “self-advertising for them without them having to promote vaporware.  I’m surprised that you do not understand this.

 

It matters to their way of thinking, but the point of open and free to debate is to questions whether this is the correct approach to their market. What ultimately 'matters' is making money. Companies have failed epically by sticking to their internal echo-chamber and ignoring what (potential) customers would like. There is clearly interest, I fail to see what some further information would cost them.

 

Why 'vapourware', BTW? Do you think that, or that other people think so? Surely the best way to dispel such rumour would be some actual news. Maybe, just maybe, that might encourage would-be buyers to consider a purchase.

 

https://stormbirds.blog/2023/11/17/here-comes-the-sales-dcs-virpil-and-winwing/

 

Several of these items I have not bought and are now on sale. I might now buy them. That's not a binary decision. Thusly might be so with the current customer base and the new Korean theatre from this team. Interest in the theatre, initially low, increases with exposure and increasing understanding.

 

To reiterate, companies are often wrong and the trillions on marketing are intended to overcome inertia, lethargy or prejudice and encourage consumption. I fail to see a particularly good reason why total blackout is positive for the achievement of their ends.

17 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Not sure why anyone would be confused about this.  If Combat Pilot were a sure thing they’d be accepting pre-orders.

 

Jason is avoiding this, for a variety of reasons. Whether or not that is correct is another matter. Certainly the next BoX is a long way further down the road than his team, hence my view that they could be more open with the info.

[LukeFF]

To be fair with regard to Combat Pilot, Jason did say in his recent interview at Stormbirds they are trying to get a working demo of some sort together so they can continue working on the project (if I got part of that wrong, someone please correct me). So, BSR is right - this might all amount to something or nothing at all.

[Koziolek]

19 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

There's no bickering because there is nothing to talk about.  It's vaporware.  There's a good chance that it's never going to happen.  

Right now, the "new project" of GB is more of a vaporware than Combat Pilot ?

[BraveSirRobin]

4 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Certainly the next BoX is a long way further down the road than his team, hence my view that they could be more open with the info.

 

They could do lots of things.  But they’re not.  They explained why not.  Their explanation is definitely plausible.  You are welcome to disagree with their reasons, but the idea that their reasons make no sense is ridiculous.

[EAF19_Marsh]

2 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

To be fair with regard to Combat Pilot, Jason did say in his recent interview at Stormbirds they are trying to get a working demo of some sort together so they can continue working on the project (if I got part of that wrong, someone please correct me). So, BSR is right - this might all amount to something or nothing at all.

 

Sure, hence my comment about whether or not this were the correct approach. What is pretty certain, however, is that the next title on this site is further along.

Just now, BraveSirRobin said:

 

They could do lots of things.  But they’re not.  They explained why not.  Their explanation is definitely plausible.  You are welcome to disagree with their reasons, but the idea that their reasons make no sense is ridiculous.

 

So explain their reasoning and why you feel no other possible approach could be better? They do not make sims for them they make them to sell.

[BraveSirRobin]

2 minutes ago, Koziolek said:

Right now, the "new project" of GB is more of a vaporware than Combat Pilot ?

That’s why they’re not taking preorders yet.  Or even talking about in any detail.

[EAF19_Marsh]

1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said:

That’s why they’re not taking preorders yet.  Or even talking about in any detail.

 

So both are afraid of being labelled 'vapourware' and hence are not revealing anything?

 

Genius.

Edited November 18, 2023 by EAF19_Marsh

[BraveSirRobin]

1 minute ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

So explain their reasoning and why you feel no other possible approach could be better? They do not make sims for them they make them to sell.

I’ve already explained it repeatedly.  

1 minute ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

So both are afraid of being labelled 'vapourware' and hence are not revealing anything?

 

Genius.

No, they’re both vaporware, but only one of them needs a lot more investment to make his vaporware a reality. 

[EAF19_Marsh]

1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said:

I’ve already explained it repeatedly.  

 

No, you have utterly failed to explain.

 

You have made a series of statements, beginning with entirely erroneous claim that buying decisions are binary and proceeding through the notion that all marketing decisions should depend solely on what 'matters' to the company and then to some confused statements concerning what might or might not constitute - or be believed to constitute - 'vapourware'.

 

Your reasoning is entirely unclear. Try again.

 

My apologies, you began with 'lol'. Maybe I should have inferred your nuanced position from that alone?

[BraveSirRobin]

10 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

To be fair with regard to Combat Pilot, Jason did say in his recent interview at Stormbirds they are trying to get a working demo of some sort together so they can continue working on the project (if I got part of that wrong, someone please correct me). So, BSR is right - this might all amount to something or nothing at all.

Jason has said that he’s going to need more investment money to make this project work.  I think the stuff he’s doing now is intended to attract that money.

[EAF19_Marsh]

7 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

I’ve already explained it repeatedly.  

No, they’re both vaporware, but only one of them needs a lot more investment to make his vaporware a reality. 

 

Really? You know this or perchance just your opinion?

[Trooper117]

11 minutes ago, Koziolek said:

Right now, the "new project" of GB is more of a vaporware than Combat Pilot ?

 

Absolutely right... they have nothing whatsoever to show that things are proceeding as planned, we only have their word for it.

CP are already showing they have stuff in the works at this early stage and aren't scared to show it.

[BraveSirRobin]

44 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

No, you have utterly failed to explain.

No, you’ve failed utterly to understand.  They’re not ready to release more details.  That’s why they haven’t released more details.  
 

44 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

beginning with entirely erroneous claim that buying decisions are binary 

That isn’t erroneous at all.  If people want what they’re selling they will buy it.  It won’t matter when it’s announced.  Not only is that not erroneous, it is dead on balls accurate.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

 

Absolutely right... they have nothing whatsoever to show that things are proceeding as planned, we only have their word for it.

CP are already showing they have stuff in the works at this early stage and aren't scared to show it.

Which do you think you’ll be flying first, a CP aircraft or a GB/BoX aircraft?

41 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

Really? You know this or perchance just your opinion?

I only know what Jason has told us.

[EAF19_Marsh]

1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said:

No, you’ve failed utterly to understand.  They’re not ready to release more details.  That’s why they haven’t released more details.  
 

That isn’t erroneous at all.  If people want what they’re selling they will buy it.  It won’t matter when it’s announced.  Not only is that not erroneous, it is dead on balls accurate.

 

 

 

They have made a decision, I am questioning that decision. Have you ever questioned a decision? I have offered you reasons why their view might be an error, such as the growing attitude in this forum. You seem to think that, because the company has decided something, this is the best choice. I dispute that. You feel the video they released many moons ago was a good decision? You feel that not following this up was a good decision? You question nothing? I do. It's my job.

 

'Want', the point I have been trying to explain to you, is not that simple. 'Want' is situation dependent. It is not binary. Shall we go again over why this is true, or can you read a brief overview of 'marketing'?

 

When, how and under what circumstances it is announced will have an effect. What cannot hurt, however, is dispelling rumour and encouraging positive discussion by outlining their new project.

[BraveSirRobin]

3 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

They have made a decision, I am questioning that decision. 

Actually your direct quote is that “I struggle to understand the logic of that decision”.  
 

I explained the logic.  You still might not agree with their decision, but you must at least understand the logic at this point.

 

As for the marketing, marketing for realistic combat flight sims is virtually nonexistent.  They don’t have the money.  So it’s a lot more binary than you seem to believe.  They let us know what they’ve made and how to buy it, and we buy it if we want it.  The next ad I see on tv, hear on the radio, or see anywhere other than a combat sim forum will be the first that I have ever seen.

[[CPT]Crunch]

All I have to say is whatever they release it's going to have to be far beyond the state that this game was in when I initially bought into it, in game play, completeness of aircraft sets, and flight fidelity, and that's no mean feat.  If it's going to be a brand new ride build it as we go, I'm hedging with Jason.

[BraveSirRobin]

1 minute ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

All I have to say is whatever they release it's going to have to be far beyond the state that this game was in when I initially bought into it, in game play, completeness of aircraft sets, and flight fidelity, and that's no mean feat.  If it's going to be a brand new ride build it as we go, I'm hedging with Jason.

You know there is virtually no chance that Jason’s game will even be as complete as the original BoS, right?  He’s starting from scratch.  

[[CPT]Crunch]

and you know because you like pulling things out your @.

[R33GZ]

I don't think this thread is going to make 30 plus pages... at this rate of old man bickering, I'd  be surprised if it makes 3 plus pages. 

 

What can be certain, is that the 'plan' of using a lot of words to say very little, is causing the community to fight amongst itself.

[BraveSirRobin]

20 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

and you know because you like pulling things out your @.

It’s mostly common sense.  But the 28 years of software development experience doesn’t hurt.
 

BoS was basically a WW2 version of RoF.  CP is being developed from scratch. Just getting close to being as good as BoS would be a significant accomplishment.

[R33GZ]

34 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

As for the marketing, marketing for realistic combat flight sims is virtually nonexistent.  They don’t have the money.  So it’s a lot more binary than you seem to believe.  They let us know what they’ve made and how to buy it, and we buy it if we want it.  The next ad I see on tv, hear on the radio, or see anywhere other than a combat sim forum will be the first that I have ever seen.

You seem to be confusing marketing and advertising. If you want to see what effective marketing for a combat flight simulator looks like, have a look at the DCS or CP websites. They are showing their content and displaying it to their customers, or the developer diary and screenshot competitions for BoX  - that is marketing. What you will never see for a combat flight simulator, is a radio/TV campaign telling you to buy the new product, that is advertising... and yes, it is expensive and usually not that effective.

 

Marketing is about keeping your product/service top of mind in the potential customer. There are many innovative ways to do this that do not cost a lot of money. Social media, for example, has made this a lot easier and more cost effective for small businesses.

 

1CGS would have been better saying nothing about their new project if they weren't prepared to release any real information about it. The 3 or so ambiguous posts by Han seem to have done more to confuse, obfuscate and divide their existing customer base.

 

And one last thing. Customers are not binary, that is why marketing and advertising exists in the first place. Their final decision will be binary, but not the emotive connections that lead to that decision.

[BraveSirRobin]

52 minutes ago, R33GZ said:

You seem to be confusing marketing and advertising. If you want to see what effective marketing for a combat flight simulator looks like, have a look at the DCS or CP websites. 

Effective marketing is showing people something that that they were going to buy anyway?  Ok.  Well, I’m sure that GB will start an equally effective marketing campaign when they’re ready.

[Varibraun]

1 hour ago, R33GZ said:

And one last thing. Customers are not binary, that is why marketing and advertising exists in the first place. Their final decision will be binary, but not the emotive connections that lead to that decision.

 

LOL...that hit a nerve!  I am probably a good example for this when thinking about the DCS F-4.  I had no intention to buy anything past 1953 in DCS until that trailer popped on my YouTube feed.  I loved that trailer (probably played it 5 times), thought about the F-4 in VR, thought I really should try that, and preordered it.  That would have never happened without the "emotive connection" you reference that grabbed me in that slick marketing. 

 

Maybe a lesson there for someone (some company)?

Edited November 18, 2023 by Varibraun

[R33GZ]

39 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Effective marketing is showing people something that that they were going to buy anyway?

Not really, customers who show blind loyalty to a particular brand are not the targets of marketing campaigns, Generally speaking.

 

42 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Well, I’m sure that GB will start an equally effective marketing campaign when they’re ready.

Yes, God I hope so... which is kind of my point. If you're not ready to start, then don't. The vague and cryptic announcements appear to have been more of a panicked knee jerk reaction to their competitors progress than a planned strategy.

[BraveSirRobin]

28 minutes ago, R33GZ said:

The vague and cryptic announcements appear to have been more of a panicked knee jerk reaction to their competitors progress than a planned strategy.

They announced that they’re working on a new project.  They really haven’t said anything more about it.  So I have no idea what you’re talking about.

[AndyJWest]

Anyone would think this was a thread about something important...