IL 2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover - Player's crash entrance in a Bessonneau hangar

[greybeard_52]

Why does every time the player tries to enter a Bessonneau hangar with his plane, his plane "stumbles" and explodes?

[SCG_Schneemann]

Nice! I'll see what I can find out. Might be a collision box that snuck in somewhere.

[greybeard_52]

Thanks! It does not happen to AI controlled planes.

Edited November 14, 2023 by greybeard_52
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[SCG_Schneemann]

Good to know. I'll see what I can dig up.

[greybeard_52]

14 hours ago, SCG_Schneemann said:

Good to know. I'll see what I can dig up.

In the meantime I got following comment on Youtube (by Google Translator from Italian):

This is a classic problem, it existed in il2 1946 (father) and also today in Cliffs of Dover (son). Practically the majority of objects, only for AI (ships, planes, vehicles) do not have a rigid structure, so you could put a smokestack inside a hangar by creating a third object, it's called merging objects. Even AIs could pass between the walls without exploding. But the player aircraft is not allowed this as the physical limits of the crash model come into play. But in this specific case, the runway is not perfectly flat, so your aircraft believes it is entering the hangar floor which can be seen by eye but in reality, it falls into a hole in the ground that is lower than the floor and therefore not visible. When I built airports I leveled them for several square meters precisely to prevent this from happening when exiting runways or taxis.

[Mysticpuma]

I remember "Donkey" who was one of the map modders before TFS got the Source Code had created a tool to do exactly this before leaving the team. He could use it to flatten large areas. 

Sadly due to internal conflicts with management in the team, he left TFS taking his work with him. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Mysticpuma

[BENKOE]

Hello @greybeard_52, at what height is the object in the clip?

[greybeard_52]

10 minutes ago, BENKOE said:

Hello @greybeard_52, at what height is the object in the clip?

?❓

[343KKT_Kintaro]

A few years ago I noted aside what hangars were safety and what hangars were bugged. There's one type of hangar that makes your plane stumbles, then the propeller 's plane touches the lintel and this simply breaks the engine. Other hangars will make your plane exlodes... mercilessly ?

 

I'll try to find back the folder were I stocked these notes (in a USB pen most likely).

 

 

[BENKOE]

Hello @greybeard_52, my question should be 'What height does the object have...?'. My apologies.

 

Ever since the first Team Fusion Mod, all player warbirds have been flying through newly defined atmospheric conditions. The Team Fusion atmospheric model is based on the assumption that air density alone is sufficient to handle standard atmospheric conditions. And that geometric altitude is equal to pressure altitude. So, when you substitute the unique TF atmosphere into the hydrostatic and ideal gas laws for further computation, you will recognize that TF follows a misconception. The higher you are, the more the pressure altitude deviates from aerodynamic/thermodynamic standards. Unfortunately, at that time pressure altitude was the basis for altitude measurement.

 

Long story short: if AI and map layers are not adjusted to the TF concept, they follow the hydrostatic and ideal gas laws. So, under certain conditions, it may happen that the 'interpretation' of the TF non-standard pressure altitude forces player aircraft to collide with objects while AI do not. Kintaro's observations seem to confirm that...

Edited November 16, 2023 by BENKOE

[343KKT_Kintaro]

2 hours ago, BENKOE said:

Hello @greybeard_52, my question should be 'What height does the object have...?'. My apologies.

 

Ever since the first Team Fusion Mod, all player warbirds have been flying through newly defined atmospheric conditions. The Team Fusion atmospheric model is based on the assumption that air density alone is sufficient to handle standard atmospheric conditions. And that geometric altitude is equal to pressure altitude. So, when you substitute the unique TF atmosphere into the hydrostatic and ideal gas laws for further computation, you will recognize that TF follows a misconception. The higher you are, the more the pressure altitude deviates from aerodynamic/thermodynamic standards. Unfortunately, at that time pressure altitude was the basis for altitude measurement.

 

Long story short: if AI and map layers are not adjusted to the TF concept, they follow the hydrostatic and ideal gas laws. So, under certain conditions, it may happen that the 'interpretation' of the TF non-standard pressure altitude forces player aircraft to collide with objects while AI do not. Kintaro's observations seem to confirm that...

 

 

Do you assume, Benkoe, that the problem with hangars at ground level is related to emulated physics at higher altitudes? the game's code mixing up so different things?

 

 

[BENKOE]

Good question. Don't be mad if I don't just hit you with a simple yes or no here. The topic is a bit more complicated and deserves its own thread. Maybe something like 'Blitz - The Measurement of Altitude'...

 

1 hour ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

Do you assume, Benkoe, that the problem with hangars at ground level is related to emulated physics at higher altitudes? the game's code mixing up so different things?

 

 

 

[greybeard_52]

5 hours ago, BENKOE said:

'What height does the object have...?'

I confess that I didn't understand your point well. In any case, the mistake of wanting to make everything in flight simulators depend on the density of the air is nothing new. In Red Baron 3D the TAS of the planes was the same at all altitudes because they had also made the engine power depend on density alone, without taking pressure into account!
However I don't know at what height the object in the clip was, sorry.