Srs Dof reality 3p - Simshaker bass shakers - Simtools Pneumatic G-seat - Swivel seat - active seat belt - Rhino ffb stick plus rudder pedals

[dgiatr]

I have made my mind after a lot of searching between DIY  or commercial motion simulators and pulled the triger for Dof reality 2p version. I am planning to fly with vr hp g2...

 

1. So does anyone use it with il2 right now?

2 Can you be competitive in Multiplayer servers flying with a motion platform or should i use it only for single mission flight?

3. What happens with motion cancellation , can i achieve motion cancellation with openxr and openxr toolkit or should i use steam vr? I dont have hp g2 motion controllers.

4. Whats the most suitable software for il2 and dof reality platforms right now simtools or srs?

 

Any info is welcomed...

Edited February 6 by dgiatr

[Panzerlang]

I can't recall his name but a YT guy said he had to buy an extra gizmo (not expensive) for his, to stop his head going outside the cockpit during combat.

[ZiggyZiggyStar]

On 11/2/2023 at 12:26 PM, Hetzer-JG52 said:

I can't recall his name but a YT guy said he had to buy an extra gizmo (not expensive) for his, to stop his head going outside the cockpit during combat.

Simhanger did a YouTube video on setting up the H3 and discussed motion compensation.

 

[dgiatr]

On 11/2/2023 at 1:26 AM, Hetzer-JG52 said:

I can't recall his name but a YT guy said he had to buy an extra gizmo (not expensive) for his, to stop his head going outside the cockpit during combat.

 

6 hours ago, ZiggyZiggyStar said:

Simhanger did a YouTube video on setting up the H3 and discussed motion compensation.

 

 

Thank you guys, i think i will shortly be in need of your recommendations

 

[jollyjack]

And now a victory roll video?

[Youtch]

Hope to read your feedback about it and if you are happy with your purchase.

 

I have been poundering getting one myself as well. 

 

One of the point i am struggling with is to understand how much room space i will need around the dof h2 to allow it to tilt without me bumping my head seat or hotas into the wall. Any idea where i might be able to find this "safe moving space" information?

[dgiatr]

9 hours ago, Youtch said:

Hope to read your feedback about it and if you are happy with your purchase.

 

I have been poundering getting one myself as well. 

 

One of the point i am struggling with is to understand how much room space i will need around the dof h2 to allow it to tilt without me bumping my head seat or hotas into the wall. Any idea where i might be able to find this "safe moving space" information?

 

If you fly in Vr which i think you do, there isnt any need for high movements in pitch and roll axis in order to feel immersive. Especially for dof 2h reality, pitch and roll movements are about 20 degrees i think so there isnt any need for high space requirements.I think you can send an email to support@dofreality.com asking about the total space requirements for the motion platform of your choice. They always responded to me before even proceed to the order of their product.

[Varibraun]

After years of waiting  - I just pulled the trigger on a DOF Reality P3.  Hopefully, it will arrive within the 4 week shipping window and I will have it up and running by the new year. @dgiatr - I look forward to hearing your thoughts about the set-up and software tweaking since I assume yours will be arriving soon.

[dgiatr]

49 minutes ago, Varibraun said:

After years of waiting  - I just pulled the trigger on a DOF Reality P3.  Hopefully, it will arrive within the 4 week shipping window and I will have it up and running by the new year. @dgiatr - I look forward to hearing your thoughts about the set-up and software tweaking since I assume yours will be arriving soon.

You are right, mine arrived 4 days ago and in one day i managed to put all its parts together except the chair and the flight gear.  Everything is very straight forward..

Srs worked fine with il2 after putting some code lines in startup config file of il2. Detail instructions are in Srs "game" category clicking on IL2 BOX. Be carefull to open startup config with notepad as administrator, exactly as it says, because i opened it otherwise and it didnt work in the beginning. With il2 platform makes the basic movements and i need to make some tuning in Srs to work better.

When i have some time i will proceed with chair and the flight gear . ..

Only negative i see so far is the famous "cogging" issue while pitcing down but i havent done any tuning yet...we will see. ..

[Youtch]

On 11/21/2023 at 10:09 PM, dgiatr said:

famous "cogging" issue while pitcing down but i havent done any tuning yet...we will see. ..

What is the famous cogging issue? Are you using the new motor?

[dgiatr]

2 hours ago, Youtch said:

What is the famous cogging issue? Are you using the new motor?

Its when the motor starts-stops some times during a very slow movement of the platform. Its due to the construction of the dc motors. The gaps between the collectors they have inside them prevent a linear movement when the motor turn too slow like small successive open circuit situations.  A possible cure is to put the leverage in the inner hole , but that way you loose some degrees of movement . Another possible solution is to change to a planet gear transmission system of the motors which is more complicated and costly. That way motors turn by a transmission rate of about 4:1 which means that in reality the motor turns faster that way 4 times more than the output shaft so you do not have a cogging effect since the motor turns fast although the motion of the platform is slow. But as a trade off you loose some speed.    

[Youtch]

Is this also happening with SFU gearbox?

 

https://dofreality.com/upgrade/

[dgiatr]

1 hour ago, Youtch said:

Is this also happening with SFU gearbox?

 

https://dofreality.com/upgrade/

Yes it happens with sfu gear also

 

[Youtch]

Thanks, I was not aware of it. Is there any workaround by soft tuning without making any hardware change to make it less noticeable?

[dgiatr]

13 minutes ago, Youtch said:

Thanks, I was not aware of it. Is there any workaround by soft tuning without making any hardware change to make it less noticeable?

Yes, i just lowered max telemetry value of pitching action in Srs tuning mode and that way pitching is faster so cogging effect is less disturbing that way...but of course you cannot get rid of it during very very slow movements. By the way i see cogging only during pitching not rolling or yawing. As a trade off platform is more likely to end its pitching limit more often that way making a clicking noise and some little vibration...so some haptics may farther eliminate that issue...

 

Problem is that i get bounched more often flying with motion platform in multiplayer servers but the immersion feeling in addition with hp g2 is fantastic!!!

Edited November 27, 2023 by dgiatr

[Youtch]

On 11/27/2023 at 4:01 PM, dgiatr said:

Yes, i just lowered max telemetry value of pitching action in Srs tuning mode and that way pitching is faster so cogging effect is less disturbing that way...but of course you cannot get rid of it during very very slow movements. By the way i see cogging only during pitching not rolling or yawing. As a trade off platform is more likely to end its pitching limit more often that way making a clicking noise and some little vibration...so some haptics may farther eliminate that issue...

 

Problem is that i get bounched more often flying with motion platform in multiplayer servers but the immersion feeling in addition with hp g2 is fantastic!!!

I am glad you are liking it, I am also seriously considering it.

 

My understanding was that in VR people tends to configure for rolling and pitching the rate and not the angle, as it tricks the mind better. Is it correct?

 

if it is the rate that is used for pitching, it there anyway to define a threshold of a minimum rate before translating it into platform movement to avoid the cogging effect associated with slow movements? Or then you would miss something as well?

 

 

[dgiatr]

4 hours ago, Youtch said:

I am glad you are liking it, I am also seriously considering it.

 

My understanding was that in VR people tends to configure for rolling and pitching the rate and not the angle, as it tricks the mind better. Is it correct?

 

if it is the rate that is used for pitching, it there anyway to define a threshold of a minimum rate before translating it into platform movement to avoid the cogging effect associated with slow movements? Or then you would miss something as well?

 

 

I have already used rate instead of angle but i didnt like it. For me it feels more natural to use angle , i have a better feeling.

 

As a trick for eliminating the feeling of cogging, today i activated a little engine haptic vibrations via Srs tuning mode and i can say it almost dissapeared cogging issue and it feels fantastic!!

 

I also activated some gun vibrations but not to much or i can not shoot down anything!!

Edited December 7, 2023 by dgiatr

[Varibraun]

Mine arrived 2 days ago (2 weeks from order date), but it will be a few days before I have a chance to open everything up and get to work on assembly.  @dgiatr I really appreciate you sharing your experience and tips/tricks for tuning it!

[dgiatr]

7 hours ago, Varibraun said:

Mine arrived 2 days ago (2 weeks from order date), but it will be a few days before I have a chance to open everything up and get to work on assembly.  @dgiatr I really appreciate you sharing your experience and tips/tricks for tuning it!

Thats a nice surprise to hear you have yours too!! Is it a 2 dof or 3? P or H model?

Will you fly 2D or 3D?

 

Hope you enjoy it!

 

 

As a a future plan, i am thinking of building a DIY pneumatic g-seat project which seems to be simple (theoriticaly) and cheap and gives even better immersion feeling. Unfortunately Srs cannot support such an implementation till now so i am thinking of using Simtools which support motion activation and g-seat action at the same time.

I cannot use both due to port conflict issue...

Edited December 8, 2023 by dgiatr

[dgiatr]

On 11/21/2023 at 9:57 PM, Varibraun said:

After years of waiting  - I just pulled the trigger on a DOF Reality P3.

Ok i see its the same as mine....dof 3p..

[Varibraun]

8 hours ago, dgiatr said:

Thats a nice surprise to hear you have yours too!! Is it a 2 dof or 3? P or H model?

Will you fly 2D or 3D?

 Yes...3P and definitely VR only (Crystal).

[Youtch]

Does the 3rd axis make such a difference in IL2?

 

 

16 hours ago, dgiatr said:

I have already used rate instead of angle but i didnt like it. For me it feels more natural to use angle , i have a better feeling.

 

As a trick for eliminating the feeling of cogging, today i activated a little engine haptic vibrations via Srs tuning mode and i can say it almost dissapeared cogging issue and it feels fantastic!!

 

I also activated some gun vibrations but not to much or i can not shoot down anything!!

Where can we find more information about this?

 

 

16 hours ago, dgiatr said:

I have already used rate instead of angle but i didnt like it. For me it feels more natural to use angle , i have a better feeling.

For both pitch and roll?

 

The maximum angles with dof reality system seems quite limited. I am curious to understand how the motion platform translates angles as it cannot be 1 to 1.

 

Also i wonder how does it feel when you reach maximum angle, and what happened when you complete a roll or a loop. Many thanks for your insights.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Youtch

[dgiatr]

Look here https://www.simracingstudio.com/forum/motion-profiles-1/srs-2-0-motion-tuning-guide

 

Its called " ENGINE HAPTIC" and

" CANNON FIRING"

[dgiatr]

3 hours ago, Youtch said:

 

 

For both pitch and roll?

 

The maximum angles with dof reality system seems quite limited. I am curious to understand how the motion platform translates angles as it cannot be 1 to 1.

 

 

The relation between il2 max pitch angle and dof motion platform max pitch angle can be set by entering different values to " max telemetry" for pitch or for roll ...e.t c. For me the ideal value for pitch is about 20 which means that when the plane is at about 90 degrees up in pitch position then motion platform is about 25 degrees up..

[dgiatr]

11 hours ago, Youtch said:

Does the 3rd axis make such a difference in IL2?

 

Honestly i dont see much difference....

[Varibraun]

@dgiatr - I finally had some time to complete the P3 assembly and am about to begin experimenting with the SRS software.  I see your tuning suggestions above and was wondering if you downloaded any profiles to begin the process?  Thank you for any suggestions!

[dgiatr]

 

4 hours ago, Varibraun said:

@dgiatr - I finally had some time to complete the P3 assembly and am about to begin experimenting with the SRS software.  I see your tuning suggestions above and was wondering if you downloaded any profiles to begin the process?  Thank you for any suggestions!

Hi!

No i didnt download any profiles , from memory i remember that i reduced max telemetry values of pitch, roll and yaw ( 25 , 40 , 20 ) respectively and  actual values of pitch , roll and yaw ( 20 , 14 , 16 ) respectively. I didnt use full roll movement because its a little discomfort. Overal smoothing to 3 , boost to 5. G sway and g surge to 0 since its only 3 dof . Engine haptic to 2 in order to trick your mind due to "cogging effect". I set some little firing gun vibrations but little or else there are serious vibrations during firing!! I propose you to activate MOTION COMPENSATION for xr ( i use opencomposite not steam vr) with witmotion sensor, because during long full pitch down or pitch up movements you will loose your gunsight!!!  CHECK ALL THE BOLTS OF YOUR GEAR BECAUSE SOME OF THEM WERE LOOSEN. ONE BOLT OF SFU GEAR BASE HAD ALREADY DROPPED ON MY FLOOR!!!IF THEY ARE NOT TIGHT AFTER A RECHECK I WILL USE BLUE LOCKTIGHT!!!

Edited December 27, 2023 by dgiatr

[dgiatr]

As a next step i am about to add some bass shakers on my rig to induce some vibrations due to stall , g-forces, gear lock down- up, flaps, e.t.c. I already downloaded simshaker wings software from Andre ( very nice guy!!) for driving the bass shakers. The best program for flight simulation haptics!!! And ordered dayton bass shakers, sound card and amplifier. I will let you know when i have some news...

3 hours ago, Varibraun said:

@dgiatr - I finally had some time to complete the P3 assembly and am about to begin experimenting with the SRS software.  I see your tuning suggestions above and was wondering if you downloaded any profiles to begin the process?  Thank you for any suggestions!

 

3 hours ago, Varibraun said:

@dgiatr - I finally had some time to complete the P3 assembly and am about to begin experimenting with the SRS software.  I see your tuning suggestions above and was wondering if you downloaded any profiles to begin the process?  Thank you for any suggestions!

 

By the way....yaw movement is very funny!!

[Varibraun]

2 hours ago, dgiatr said:

from memory i remember that i reduced max telemetry values of pitch, roll and yaw ( 25 , 40 , 20 ) respectively and  actual values of pitch , roll and yaw ( 20 , 14 , 16 ) respectively. I didnt use full roll movement because its a little discomfort. Overal smoothing to 3 , boost to 5. G sway and g surge to 0 since its only 3 dof . Engine haptic to 2 in order to trick your mind due to "cogging effect". I set some little firing gun vibrations but little or else there are serious vibrations during firing!!

 

Thank you - I have been trying a few of the different online profiles from the SRS Premium site and will try this to compare.  Lot's of options!  I also really appreciate the suggestion to set Engine Haptic to 2 (none of the other profiles had done that).

 

2 hours ago, dgiatr said:

I propose you to activate MOTION COMPENSATION for xr ( i use opencomposite not steam vr) with witmotion sensor, because during long full pitch down or pitch up movements you will loose your gunsight!!!

 

I purchased the Wit system but haven't gotten to that installation stage yet, I have been doing all of my initial testing on flat screen just to see how much the rig is actually moving in different profiles.  I realize that once I put the headset back on, things will be a lot more intense and I will need motion compensation set up pretty quickly.

 

1 hour ago, dgiatr said:

As a next step i am about to add some bass shakers on my rig to induce some vibrations due to stall , g-forces, gear lock down- up, flaps, e.t.c. I already downloaded simshaker wings software from Andre ( very nice guy!!) for driving the bass shakers. The best program for flight simulation haptics!!! And ordered dayton bass shakers, sound card and amplifier. I will let you know when i have some news...

 

I was just testing out my Buttkickers with @Andre's software (have had it and them for several years along with his Jetpad) and discovered the apparent conflict that I now see others ( @TCW_DirtyMike0330 @ewen75 @Montana_*VR* ) mentioned here last year.  Hopefully, there is an easy solution and I don't know if you will run into a similar issue with the Dayton system?  I will report back after some experimentation and if I can't find a solution will post over in the Simshaker thread.

[dgiatr]

3 hours ago, Varibraun said:

 

 

I was just testing out my Buttkickers with @Andre's software (have had it and them for several years along with his Jetpad) and discovered the apparent conflict that I now see others ( @TCW_DirtyMike0330 @ewen75 @Montana_*VR* ) mentioned here

What was the conflict?

And what is the solution?

I am not aware of that.

Edited December 28, 2023 by dgiatr

[Panzerlang]

6 hours ago, dgiatr said:

As a next step i am about to add some bass shakers on my rig to induce some vibrations due to stall , g-forces, gear lock down- up, flaps, e.t.c. I already downloaded simshaker wings software from Andre ( very nice guy!!) for driving the bass shakers. The best program for flight simulation haptics!!! And ordered dayton bass shakers, sound card and amplifier. I will let you know when i have some news...

 

 

By the way....yaw movement is very funny!!

I seriously doubt you'll feel much of any vibration with those Daytons through the frame of your rig. Never mind how fragile they are (do NOT drop them, even a couple of inches, the plastic frame inside will break). I now have the very big and powerful LSEs in my static rig and even those have to be turned up to 75% on the big amp to get a nice feel. But I think even they would be challenged by the frame of a motion-rig.
 

NB: I recommend you open them up and check the plastic frame inside before mounting them, two of my four were broken out of the box (in transit I assume). I subsequently broke another by dropping it two inches. The frames are incredibly fragile and I suspect it might have been broken simply because I mounted it upside down and the frame couldn't take the weight of the block vibrating in that orientation.

Long story short, they're shit.

Pic of my LSEs.
 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Hetzer-JG52

[Varibraun]

17 minutes ago, dgiatr said:

What was the conflict?

And what is the solution?

 

The short of it is that the Buttkicker won't vibrate with SimShaker when the SRS software is running.  See the thread below - I hope to have a chance tomorrow to try the changes recommended in the thread. 

 

[dgiatr]

3 hours ago, Varibraun said:

 

The short of it is that the Buttkicker won't vibrate with SimShaker when the SRS software is running.  See the thread below - I hope to have a chance tomorrow to try the changes recommended in the thread. 

 

 Cant you make them work both by activating port forwarding?

Srs has port forwarding in Il2 games tab.

For now i experimentally work together Srs with Simtools by activating port forwarding from Srs ( dof motion platform) to Simtools ( my next Diy project for pneumatic g-seat ).

 

Simshaker has a dedicated port to work ( i think 29373)..so put that number inside Srs port forwarding ( i think with the same ip address number) and see what it will do. The config file of il2 will be exactly as Srs declares for il2 to work.

Let me know...

Edited December 28, 2023 by dgiatr

[dgiatr]

3 hours ago, Hetzer-JG52 said:

I seriously doubt you'll feel much of any vibration with those Daytons through the frame of your rig. Never mind how fragile they are (do NOT drop them, even a couple of inches, the plastic frame inside will break). I now have the very big and powerful LSEs in my static rig and even those have to be turned up to 75% on the big amp to get a nice feel. But I think even they would be challenged by the frame of a motion-rig.
 

NB: I recommend you open them up and check the plastic frame inside before mounting them, two of my four were broken out of the box (in transit I assume). I subsequently broke another by dropping it two inches. The frames are incredibly fragile and I suspect it might have been broken simply because I mounted it upside down and the frame couldn't take the weight of the block vibrating in that orientation.

Long story short, they're shit.

Pic of my LSEs.
 

Nice rig you have there Hetzer-JG52!!!

 

I see you have ffb stick, from what manufacturer or is it a diy project? Do you know if there is anything like this but for desktop mounting , i mean to put it on my desktop.

 

As far as dayton bass shakers that's important what you say. Was it dayton bst-1 type the ones that have been broken or some other type? I am about to use dayton bst ex300 for stall and g-effects and dayton bst-1 for all the other effects. The big one ( ex300) has better response for low hz effects like stall and g-effect and the other one ( bst-1) has better response for higher hz effects as flaps, gears, e.tc. What was the amplifier ( watts , type, channels) you use to feed the dayton bass shakers and what was their connection ( one bass shaker every channel , or two in parallel or in series) ?

 

I know buttkicker are the best but they are very very expensive..

Edited December 28, 2023 by dgiatr

[Panzerlang]

I can't remember the Daytons other than they were the largest ones. I ran two each from pocket-sized amps and they became hot enough to burn skin if I ran them high enough to get decent vibes and both eventually burned out (I'd say less than 30 hours total on them). The Daytons also got stupidly hot. The LSEs barely get warm.

The stick isn't FFB, it's a Virpil setup.

Pic of the amp I have running the two LSEs:

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Hetzer-JG52

[dgiatr]

2 minutes ago, Hetzer-JG52 said:

I can't remember the Daytons other than they were the largest ones. I ran two each from pocket-sized amps and they became hot enough to burn skin if I ran them high enough to get decent vibes and both eventually burned out (I'd say less than 30 hours total on them).

The stick isn't FFB, it's a Virpil setup.

Pic of the amp I have running the two LSEs:

 

Ok thank you,

probably they were dayton bst ex300 type the one with 300 w power...

[Panzerlang]

2 minutes ago, dgiatr said:

Ok thank you,

probably they were dayton bst ex300 type the one with 300 w power...

If I recall correctly, they were 50w each.

[dgiatr]

1 minute ago, Hetzer-JG52 said:

If I recall correctly, they were 50w each.

So there were dayton bst-1  (50 w) , how many of them did you use?

[Panzerlang]

Just now, dgiatr said:

So there were dayton bst-1  (50 w) , how many of them did you use?

I had four of them running from two midget amps. Lesson learned...buy cheap, buy twice. Lol.

[dgiatr]

1 minute ago, Hetzer-JG52 said:

I had four of them running from two midget amps. Lesson learned...buy cheap, buy twice. Lol.

Ok?