Quest 3 Inbound - Thoughts to follow

[E69_splash99]

19 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I assume you are using link cable.

I would avoid SteamVR and use openXR runtime.

But otherwise set steamVR SS custom 100% and change resolution in the Occulus app. Other option like encoder resolution etc which are very important for better clarity set in Occulus Debug Tool. 

Any way usuing OpenComposite  and OpenXR runtime would give you more performance - fps, more graphics tweak options  from OpenXR toolkit and nakesaver app.

Thanks! I'm sorry for the question, but how can I use OpenXR instead of SteamVR? I'm using a USB 3.0 cable and the no-steam version of IL-2, so I'd rather not to use Steam at all.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

51 minutes ago, E69_splash99 said:

Thanks! I'm sorry for the question, but how can I use OpenXR instead of SteamVR? I'm using a USB 3.0 cable and the no-steam version of IL-2, so I'd rather not to use Steam at all.

You need open composite for that.

[chiliwili69]

11 hours ago, =DW=_drewm3i-VR said:

What about the Pico 4?

 

All the distorsion profiles factors for most of the VR headsets are compiled in a public spreadsheet, in the "SS per device" page.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gJmnz_nVxI6_dG_UYNCCpZVK2-f8NBy-y1gia77Hu_k

 

It is the same spreadsheet of the SYN_VANDER becnhmark.

 

The Pico4 has a ratio of 1.6 using  72Hz and Ultra mode of Virtual Desktop.

[chiliwili69]

11 hours ago, =DW=_drewm3i-VR said:

How would you compare the Pico 4 and Quest 3 for IL-2 wired VR?

 

If you ask for wired VR, then the choice is clear Quest3. Since the wired option of Pico4 never wroked well for me using the Pico software (Streaming Assistant). So I was only using Virtual Desktop wireless.

 

You can review my pictures of Index vs Pico4 and Index vs Quest3, but I never compared directly Quest3 and Pico4.

 

 

The ideal VR headset for IL-2 doesn´t exist yet. It is difficult to decide which one is better than other. 

In general I prefer a wired one (DP cable ideally) to avoid charging batteries and extra dedicated router.

I also don´t like big headsets like Crystal with large rotational inertia.

Next year in april will appear the Pico5 wireless which should be a bit better than Quest3, but the Pico5 ProMax is more interesting since it has DP cable.

[chiliwili69]

20 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Any way usuing OpenComposite  and OpenXR runtime would give you more performance - fps, more graphics tweak options  from OpenXR toolkit and nakesaver app

I have never used OpenComposite (I never had the need)

 

So, Is there any evidence of the better performance for Quest Link (USB cable) by using:

 

OpenComposite - OpenXR runtime - 

versus

SteamVR (using OpenXR runtime) (This is what I use).

 

The OpenXR toolkit can be used for both accodring to the page (https://mbucchia.github.io/OpenXR-Toolkit/)

[E69_splash99]

1 hour ago, =DW=_drewm3i-VR said:

You need open composite for that.

Downloaded and configured. I'm going to perform some test to find out if there are differences performance wise.

[E69_splash99]

Great help!!! It doesn't launch SteamVR nor Steam at all. Definitely I'm getting more fps now.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

SteamVR (using OpenXR runtime) (This is what I use)

Yes , because steamVR do add additional not necessary workload for system. Avoiding steamVR entraly results more fps in games.

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[chiliwili69]

IL-2 VR is a game designed OpenVR calls. IL-2 does not talk OpenXR natively.

 

The drawing you show is was thought for WMR platforms like G2. And I think the drawing is old since SteamVR can talk OpenXR nowadays. (From where did you took the graph?)

 

When I had the Index I only needed SteamVR talking directly OpenVR with IL-2.  No need of OpenXR.

 

Now with the Quest3 (since Oculus Quest Link uses OpenXR calls) you need to use either OpenComposite or SteamVR with OpenXR. 

11 hours ago, E69_splash99 said:

Definitely I'm getting more fps now

How did you measure that gain? it was just your "feeling" or did you run a benchmark with IL-2?

[E69_splash99]

By using the fps counter in game, in exactly the same quick mission. Probably I would need some benchmark, but my first impressions were very good.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

16 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

The drawing you show is was thought for WMR platforms like G2.

In the graphics is the sentence -  replacement WMR with oculus.

Guys which use OpenComposite and OpenXR do reports better performance in il2 vs SteamVR .This infographic is from Mbucchia page, recently he took this page down.  Use  way back machine to can access this page. It's sad it's down because there is lots of great knowledge seen nowhere else.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230326012519/https://mbucchia.github.io/OpenXR-Toolkit/opencomposite.html

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[chiliwili69]

I found a page with some more description of the layers and headsets:

https://fredemmott.com/blog/2022/05/29/vr-software-components.html

 

In this drawing I marking in green the OpenComposite route for Quest2/3 and in red the route for SteamVR:

[chiliwili69]

Thinking loud, the new SteamLink with supports Quest headsets (2, 3 and Pro) can talk directly with native OpenVR games like IL-2 (or ALyx).

 

Should we then expect better perfomance comparing with VirtualDesktop or Airlink which uses OpenXR API?

 

 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

8 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

Should we then expect better perfomance comparing with VirtualDesktop or Airlink which uses OpenXR API?

One should make check. Btw do Steamlink force Fovated rendering , can it be turn off. For quest pro Dynamic FR should be nice option if that works with Il2.

Btw in time of this article there was not the Steamlink, how do you know which route it take?

Edited December 11, 2023 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[chiliwili69]

12 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Btw in time of this article there was not the Steamlink, how do you know which route it take?

Yes, you are right. But Steam Link in principle doesn´t require any Oculus software in the PC, So It should talk directly with the device.

I would like to have sometime to do some testing.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

I'm back to the Reverb G2 @chiliwili69. Just couldn't get the Quest 3 to look/perform as well with the SS required to achieve a similar image quality, despite the 800 MBPS bitrate selected. I also tried two link cables and they varied (depending on port) from 1.2 GPBS to 2.6 GBPS. The latter did perform much better. A Quest 3 with native PCVR (and no battery) would be a major winner because of the lenses. Why couldn't they use Thunderbolt 4 instead of DP? Anyway, the G2 just has a much cleaner and sharper image with far less aliasing and shimmering despite the limited sweet spot and effective FOV. I also find the colors better and the comfort is so much better that it's unbelievable. I tried so many different setting which did help, but overall it just isn't worth the money which I'll be saving for a true G2 replacement.

[356thFS_Piranha]

Interesting,

I turned off ASW and run it at 80HZ with 3000X3000, 

ultra setting in IL2. I find the image much better than the G2 and spot targets much better.

I'm have a 4090 graphics a card and a I9 13K CPU. There is a slight shimmer and I have MXAA at 2. Using open Composite and Open XR.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

2 hours ago, 367th_Piranha said:

Interesting,

I turned off ASW and run it at 80HZ with 3000X3000, 

ultra setting in IL2. I find the image much better than the G2 and spot targets much better.

I'm have a 4090 graphics a card and a I9 13K CPU. There is a slight shimmer and I have MXAA at 2. Using open Composite and Open XR.

Yup, unfortunately with my 3080, I can't run that resolution on the Q3 due to the encode/decode overhead. I also can't run MSAA.

 

I'm just going to wait for a much more substantial upgrade down the line in a year or too. Will be getting a 5070 Ti/5080 to power it. I couldn't even fit or power a 4090 with my case/psu if I wanted to. With the PSVR2 could work with pc...it looks fantastic.

Edited December 12, 2023 by =DW=_drewm3i-VR

[chiliwili69]

On 12/11/2023 at 10:43 PM, =DW=_drewm3i-VR said:

A Quest 3 with native PCVR (and no battery) would be a major winner because of the lenses

 

Yes, the Quest3 is thought as an standalone headset for the masses, no for the PCVR people. This is really unfortunate and this is the reason why I hate Meta so much (ironically I replaced Index by Quest3) but I will happily replace Quest3 by Pico5Pro or Deckard.

A version of Quest3 without a battery and without XR2Chip and direct DP cable connection to PC will be a clear winner for all PCVR community, which is not small but not as large as the masses that Meta want to hunt.

Given said that, it is strange that Meta allows Valve to create the SteamLink to still catch all that PCVR community.

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

On 12/11/2023 at 12:45 AM, chiliwili69 said:

Thinking loud, the new SteamLink with supports Quest headsets (2, 3 and Pro) can talk directly with native OpenVR games like IL-2 (or ALyx).

 

Should we then expect better perfomance comparing with VirtualDesktop or Airlink which uses OpenXR API?

 

Both VD and AirLink are able to use OpenVR natively, so there should be no performance improvements here. The more important question IMO is whether SteamLink forces you to use SteamVR, as it is the single largest performance hog in PCVR.

[chiliwili69]

On 12/9/2023 at 11:19 PM, =DW=_drewm3i-VR said:

How would you compare the Pico 4 and Quest 3 for IL-2 wired VR?

Here a recent video from Tyrel using VD in both, I think most of the improvement is thanks to the higher bandwidth of the XR2Gen2 chip.

 

 

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

Sry, I mixed up the thread I wanted to post in, please ignore

 

Edited March 20, 2024 by FTC_ChilliBalls