Discussion of Fortresses and Focke-Wulfs Announcement

[MiGCap]

22 minutes ago, ZenBird said:

Not going to invest in anything else until VR is implemented.

 

 

Me too.

 

I bought everything TF threw on the market without playing the game one single time, just to give the team money for development.

 

VR is standard for these kind of sims for many, many years now, and my patience has vanished.

 

I will not pay a single cent anymore for anything from TF until this standard feature is achieved, regardless of super plane sets or great scenarios. That‘s all just worthless without VR implementation.

 

And the announcement is very unsharp in this respect.

 

So my question to the developers: Will „Fortresses and Focke-Wulfs“ have full VR implementation? Yes or no?

 

No phrases like „We work on it“, „There are difficulties“, „We try“.

 

Yes or no?

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, Buzzsaw said:

We'd love to have the manpower to do a flyable Do.17/217, but that is just not available. 

 

We will have the new variant Ju-88... A-4.

 

The FW-190A-3 will have the ability to carry bombs.

 

Yes, that makes sense.

 

If it could be done as AI though... it'd noticeably increase the historical accuracy of the counter-attacks.

 

I might be a bit too focussed on getting the plane variants right though.

 

P.S. I don't know about the Fw-190A3, but there were some older German bombers used in the counterattacks (particularly against shipping), but I believe the two really large daylight raids agaist the beachhead were done by massed Do-217, and suffered considerable casualties as planned... they were essentially bated into the trap).

[Buzzsaw]

15 minutes ago, MiGCap said:

 

Me too.

 

I bought everything TF threw on the market without playing the game one single time, just to give the team money for development.

 

VR is standard for these kind of sims for many, many years now, and my patience has vanished.

 

I will not pay a single cent anymore for anything from TF until this standard feature is achieved, regardless of super plane sets or great scenarios. That‘s all just worthless without VR implementation.

 

And the announcement is very unsharp in this respect.

 

So my question to the developers: Will „Fortresses and Focke-Wulfs“ have full VR implementation? Yes or no?

 

No phrases like „We work on it“, „There are difficulties“, „We try“.

 

Yes or no?

Have you tried the VR Beta?

 

Many testers say it is the best look of any VR implementation they have played, including GB and DCS.

 

However, we still have issues with crashes, many people experience a crash after approx. 15-20 minutes of gameplay.  We have every confidence we will find the bug, but can't release till that is fixed.  (and trueSKY and Speedtree are finalized)

 

VR and the Visual Update has been the prime focus of our programmers for the last two years.

 

I would suggest you try the Beta and then you can see how far we have progressed.

[E69_Chipi]

22 minutes ago, MiGCap said:

 

Me too.

 

I bought everything TF threw on the market without playing the game one single time, just to give the team money for development.

 

VR is standard for these kind of sims for many, many years now, and my patience has vanished.

 

I will not pay a single cent anymore for anything from TF until this standard feature is achieved, regardless of super plane sets or great scenarios. That‘s all just worthless without VR implementation.

 

And the announcement is very unsharp in this respect.

 

So my question to the developers: Will „Fortresses and Focke-Wulfs“ have full VR implementation? Yes or no?

 

No phrases like „We work on it“, „There are difficulties“, „We try“.

 

Yes or no?

I'm more or less on the same boat, but with less aggression...☺️

I just requested access to the Beta. Hopefully i will be able to get a taste of it before investing some more in this product.

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by E69_Chipi

[MiGCap]

10 minutes ago, Buzzsaw said:

Have you tried the VR Beta?

 

Many testers say it is the best look of any VR implementation they have played, including GB and DCS.

 

However, we still have issues with crashes, many people experience a crash after approx. 15-20 minutes of gameplay.  We have every confidence we will find the bug, but can't release till that is fixed.  (and trueSKY and Speedtree are finalized)

 

VR and the Visual Update has been the prime focus of our programmers for the last two years.

 

I would suggest you try the Beta and then you can see how far we have progressed.

 

 

Okay, I will ask for a VR Beta slot.

[Buzzsaw]

1 minute ago, MiGCap said:

 

 

Okay, I will ask for a VR Beta slot.

Please send a message to me.... I will reply next week to those who have recently applied.

[MiGCap]

12 minutes ago, Buzzsaw said:

Please send a message to me.... I will reply next week to those who have recently applied.

 

Done, thank You.

[Cloyd]

What about the visual update, for those of us who don't care about VR? Do we have to wait for V6?

Edited September 22, 2023 by Cloyd

[MiGCap]

55 minutes ago, E69_Chipi said:

I'm more or less on the same boat, but with less aggression...☺️

I just requested access to the Beta. Hopefully i will be able to get a taste of it before investing some more in this product.

 

 

Yes, You are right, my post was aggressive, sorry for that.

 

But when I realized that a new large supplement is in the pipeline before the basics are finished, I became angry.

[PO_Baldrick]

5 minutes ago, Cloyd said:

What about the visual update, for those of us who don't care about VR? Do we have to wait for V6?

The Visual Update has always been planned to be completed prior to TF6 as I understand it.

[Enceladus828]

4 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

I really was expecting somewhere like Malta, not just updating a town/city? 

I was also hoping for Malta as back in the 2020 interview with Rod White the plan for TF 6.0 was a new map followed by advancing the planeset in the Channel Map into late 1942. I would say this was likely because of man power reasons and perhaps aircraft carriers took longer to develop — without carriers there’s no real point of doing Malta properly.

 

@Buzzsaw Would it be possible to fly some Dieppe planes like the Bf-110F, Spitfire Mk.Vc and Bf-109G-2 over the Tobruk map; trop. variants? 

[PO_Baldrick]

Just now, MiGCap said:

But when I realized that a new large supplement is in the pipeline before the basics are finished, I became angry.

There has been some speculation that with changes of publishers the future of CloD was in some doubt. This announcement tells us it is very much alive with support from Fulqrum Publishing. Team Fusion have been under some pressure from the community to announce its plans beyond the Visual Update, so here it is.

 

The new content announced for TF6 will be developed in parallel to the core updates in the Visual Update, with different skillsets involved.

 

My understanding is the Visual Update remains a key priority for Team Fusion but they need to let the community know they are committed for the long term as well as work to complete the core development.

 

Just my two cents!

[Buzzsaw]

10 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

I was also hoping for Malta as back in the 2020 interview with Rod White the plan for TF 6.0 was a new map followed by advancing the planeset in the Channel Map into late 1942. I would say this was likely because of man power reasons and perhaps aircraft carriers took longer to develop — without carriers there’s no real point of doing Malta properly.

 

@Buzzsaw Would it be possible to fly some Dieppe planes like the Bf-110F, Spitfire Mk.Vc and Bf-109G-2 over the Tobruk map; trop. variants? 

No, there will not be tropical variants in Dieppe...

 

However, stay tuned for announcements re. further content and maps.

[deathmisser]

9 minutes ago, Buzzsaw said:

maps.

Wait so they are more than one map ? ? 

[No.54_Reddog]

I think what Buzzsaw is alluding to is content for TF7, TF8, TF9 etc. I do not believe that TF6 is going to get any more content than has been announced.

[PO_Baldrick]

3 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

I think what Buzzsaw is alluding to is content for TF7, TF8, TF9 etc. I do not believe that TF6 is going to get any more content than has been announced.

That is my understanding too

[FTC_Oakwoodson]

Flyable B17? Making me tear up here Team Fussion?

[Buzzsaw]

8 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

I think what Buzzsaw is alluding to is content for TF7, TF8, TF9 etc. I do not believe that TF6 is going to get any more content than has been announced.

We will have more content for TF 6.0 than has been announced... but what form that takes is unclear at this point.

 

So we expect at least one more aircraft to be added... but it may be AI, not flyable.

 

The other content referred to is in the form of aircraft/maps for later DLC's.

 

All of this will become clear when we release that information... which will be in the next... dare I say...  ?  two weeks?

[Blitzen]

2 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Have you tried the VR Beta?

 

Many testers say it is the best look of any VR implementation they have played, including GB and DCS.

 

However, we still have issues with crashes, many people experience a crash after approx. 15-20 minutes of gameplay.  We have every confidence we will find the bug, but can't release till that is fixed.  (and trueSKY and Speedtree are finalized)

 

VR and the Visual Update has been the prime focus of our programmers for the last two years.

 

I would suggest you try the Beta and then you can see how far we have progressed.

Amen Buzzsaw! I do admit to looking forward to the debut of fully operational VR and new visual content for what we have now in the near future though....

[Dagwoodyt]

So, after 18 months in private beta that has:

2 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

the best look of any VR implementation they have played, including GB and DCS

the beta is still too unstable for a "public" beta. ?

[sevenless]

How cool is that? Instabuy! ?

 

https://stormbirds.blog/2023/09/22/team-fusion-announces-fortresses-and-focke-wulfs/

[Mtnbiker1998]

Will be interesting to see what comes of this for sure. Still hard to get hyped for anything CLOD considering how long we've been waiting for the VU/VR update... Plus, trailer looked pretty underwhelming, that Typhoon looks very WIP. It'd be fine for a mod, but for an official DLC that'll probably cost $50 minimum? I dunno. 

 

Negativity aside, I'd love to fly a B-17 and a P-51A in VR, so hopefully I'm wrong about all this. I'm trying to root for you guys, but you sure don't make it easy.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Plane moving on the ground looks bad, physics is odd same as in the original CLOD, yes Typhoon model must be WIP looks like a plastic toy.

[Buzzsaw]

24 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Plane moving on the ground looks bad, physics is odd same as in the original CLOD, yes Typhoon model must be WIP looks like a plastic toy.

Cockpits and external are all 4k, and done to standards equal to GB or better.

 

Physics model in CLIFFS is accurate... maybe you don't like ground handling as much as GB, but then GB does not have the damage and engine modeling that CLIFFS has... and CLIFFS aerodynamics is second to none.

 

Bottom line:  Every game out there is a work in progress and we are continually refining CLIFFS.

[Redwo1f]

Nice plane set, some nice and hopeful improvements mentioned - sounds fun! Will buy

 

Single player dynamic campaign generator at all on the horizon?

[Tonester]

By the time this comes out, based on TF track record, the Microprose B17 sims will be out, which will render Dieppe dead in the water.

The next GB installment will also have been announced and delivered, Combat Pilot will be out, and aliens will have arrived on mass

and will probably be making their own flight sims featuring gravity drives and wormholes. Oh and Jesus will be back with avengence

and the rapture will be looming large…and we will get the VU/VR update a week before Dieppe…all jokes aside, they should release planes

in dribs and drabs like GB does…with a preorder system…at least this will put some money in the kitty…and will generate some interest

[MiGCap]

I will try the Beta, but I am determined: No more money until working VR.

 

And when the Devs didn't get the bugs out for two years (!) now, as @Buzzsaw stated, they are perhaps on the wrong way. 

[Buzzsaw]

1 hour ago, MiGCap said:

I will try the Beta, but I am determined: No more money until working VR.

 

And when the Devs didn't get the bugs out for two years (!) now, as @Buzzsaw stated, they are perhaps on the wrong way. 

One thing I would recommend MiGCap:

 

Make sure you have your game installed and working properly in 2D before you start the beta in VR.  You don't have to fly the game in 2d, just make sure it starts correctly and your settings work.

 

If you have never flown the game, would suggest you look at the 'Getting Started and Troubleshooting Guide' first.  It is located in the 'manuals' folder in the main CLIFFS install folder.

 

There are manuals for setting up VR which you will get when you apply.

[Mysticpuma]

How to save a pilot the Car Door type Typhoon. 

Video of the Typhoon begins at the 10m 5s mark:

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Mysticpuma

[Buzzsaw]

Some of the reasons we went with the Dieppe Scenario:  (along with the entire 1941-1942 Channel Campaign)

 

-  We think it offers an exciting environment as well as a historically accurate experience.  The parameters fit very well with what CLIFFS is able to deliver. In the time period portrayed, the USAAF's 8th Air Force only had relatively few bombers operational and typically was flying its B-17's in a single 24 plane formation. Considering CLIFFS can handle 100 planes online and more in Single Player, that will allow for interesting and historically accurate battles, with a mix of 24 Fortresses, 40-50 Interceptors, and 25 Escorts possible. It will definitely be a challenge for the FW-190A and Bf-109G pilots coming in on the massed guns of a similar formation... with the B-17 jockeys having a good chance to push on through.  And Players who love flying escorts will have the opportunity to shepherd their 'Big Friends' home safely.  By the standards of Flight Simulations we will be allowing players to participate in a massive air battle.

 

-  The Channel map really hasn't been fully utilized.  The BoB as portrayed by BLITZ is focused on the Pas de Calais, Dover and London.   There is a huge, almost unused area which offers the opportunity for new experiences for players.  With the addition of the new Coastal Batteries on both sides of the Channel as well as the ongoing creation of the 'Atlantic Wall', there will be new environments.

 

-  The 'Channel Dash'/'Operation Cerberus' will provide an opportunity for something unusual for Northwest Europe, Naval Escort and Naval Strikes.

 

-  As a group of developers who value accurate historical representation in our game, we now have the opportunity to bring the player through the various stages of the European Air War as it raged over the English Channel... starting in 1940 and progressing through 1942.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Buzzsaw

[Mysticpuma]

In terms of the B17, what turrets are expected to be available on release? 

Expectations I assume would be rear, top and ball turret? 

[Buzzsaw]

44 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

In terms of the B17, what turrets are expected to be available on release? 

Expectations I assume would be rear, top and ball turret? 

We will make the Rear, Top, and Ball turrets playable.  In addition the .50 caliber MG's in the Bombardier's nose cabin will also be playable.  (as well as the Norden bombsight)

 

We are not making the Waist gunner positions playable for two reasons... 1) these positions were the least accurate or effective of any in the aircraft, most players would not choose them, (2) to model them would require a huge amount of time on the part of our 3D team, not worthwhile when you consider they could be modeling the cockpit of another aircraft in less time.  3) these positions would also require we create some complex animations to represent the fact there are two gunners and each would be moving around and sighting their weapon.  If two players were manning both positions, then animations would be required to follow the player movements. 

 

Of course the Waist positions will be active, and visible in the external model, but controlled by the AI.

 

We won't be making the Radio and Navigator's positions playable either... again, in game terms these positions are not necessary... and these compartments are complex, would require a lot of 3D work and animations for the two crew members would be required.

[Lorena_Scout]

but the a.i will take the waist guns ? or none at all?

[MiGCap]

2 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

One thing I would recommend MiGCap:

 

Make sure you have your game installed and working properly in 2D before you start the beta in VR.  You don't have to fly the game in 2d, just make sure it starts correctly and your settings work.

 

If you have never flown the game, would suggest you look at the 'Getting Started and Troubleshooting Guide' first.  It is located in the 'manuals' folder in the main CLIFFS install folder.

 

There are manuals for setting up VR which you will get when you apply.

 

 

Thank You. I played the game from the very first day Il-2 CloD was published, but I stopped later due to the initial problems and the bad graphics without anti-aliasing.

I just never played one of the TF supplements.

[Buzzsaw]

15 minutes ago, MiGCap said:

 

 

Thank You. I played the game from the very first day Il-2 CloD was published, but I stopped later due to the initial problems and the bad graphics without anti-aliasing.

I just never played one of the TF supplements.

Things have changed quite a bit since the first version... I would still recommend you look at the Guide.  ?

22 minutes ago, Lorena_Scout said:

but the a.i will take the waist guns ? or none at all?

The AI will control the Waist positions.  Same as the Wellington IC versions.

[5th_Barone]

8 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Cockpits and external are all 4k, and done to standards equal to GB or better.

 

Physics model in CLIFFS is accurate... maybe you don't like ground handling as much as GB, but then GB does not have the damage and engine modeling that CLIFFS has... and CLIFFS aerodynamics is second to none.

 

Bottom line:  Every game out there is a work in progress and we are continually refining CLIFFS.

 Come on we can argue about the flight physics.

But don't tell you consider realistic the ground handling. Everyone who has been on a small plane can tell you.

The differential braking is completely off.

The friction with the grass and the terrain is off.

The "anchor" feature is really bad.

I understand it may not be in the works (you have other things to do) but ground handling is far from perfect.

 

 

[No.54_Reddog]

Is the dieppe map the same size as the existing channel map? Apart from some new objects is there anything different between it and the channel map?

 

[jaguar]

The new DLC looks nice!

 

I hope the 1942 map will be more accurate than the current ones, as infos are easy to find nowadays.

 

What puzzles me Is the P-51A in what looks likes USAAF variant. I would expect RAF Mustangs instead.

Edited September 23, 2023 by jaguar

[5th_Barone]

13 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

No, there will not be tropical variants in Dieppe...

 

However, stay tuned for announcements re. further content and maps.

Question: since we won't get tropical version of the Dieppe plane set (atm at least).

What if players use these planes on Tobruk map.

Is the sand/desert damaging engine simulated? Or is it not?

Because if it's the second choice having the tropical version it's just for accuracy but in the meantime servers could allow the Dieppe plane to be used on Tobruk map.

Thanks in advance

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

1 hour ago, jaguar said:

The new DLC looks nice!

 

I hope the 1942 map will be more accurate than the current ones, as infos are easy to find nowadays.

 

What puzzles me Is the P-51A in what looks likes USAAF variant. I would expect RAF Mustangs instead.