ICYMI: the Halberstadt D.II and Nieuport 11 are now available ?

[LukeFF]

https://il2sturmovik.com/news/808/update-5105/

[BMA_Hellbender]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

https://il2sturmovik.com/news/808/update-5105/

 

Good stuff!

 

First impressions:

• N11 flies great, seems like a high fidelity port of the RoF FM. It looks great, too!
   
• Halberstadt D.II has some weird force feedback bug when no airflow is going over the control surfaces. Comparable but not the same as the existing bug with the Sopwith Triplane. In this case the elevator seems to have no vertical deflection at all (vertical axis completely limp), but instead the stick either falls to the left or to the right and does so in a rather jittery way. Once in flight FFB seems to behave better, it's quite stiff though.

[ZachariasX]

5 minutes ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

N11 flies great, seems like a high fidelity port of the RoF FM. It looks great, too!

How fast is it? IIRC the real N.23/N.17 with a 90 hp LeRhône clocks 92 mph max on the GPS…

Edited July 26, 2023 by ZachariasX

[LukeFF]

11 minutes ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

• Halberstadt D.II has some weird force feedback bug when no airflow is going over the control surfaces. Comparable but not the same as the existing bug with the Sopwith Triplane. In this case the elevator seems to have no vertical deflection at all (vertical axis completely limp), but instead the stick either falls to the left or to the right and does so in a rather jittery way. Once in flight FFB seems to behave better, it's quite stiff though.

 

Cheers, thanks, I'll pass along the report.

[BMA_Hellbender]

10 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

How fast is it? IIRC the real N.23/N.17 with a 90 hp LeRhône clocks 92 mph max on the GPS…

 

167km/h ASL (103mph)

[ZachariasX]

7 minutes ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

167km/h ASL (103mph)

Thanks! Not that I would want to make an argument for any revisions, but talking to the folks who make the repros of the N.23, it appears to me that flight speeds like that with such engines are - while maybe possible - somewhat in opposition to reasonable engine life, if you were to operate such a crate.

 

But I‘m glad to read that you‘re happy with it in FC! Can‘t try it out until I‘m back home, so other opinions have to do for now.

[BMA_Hellbender]

1 hour ago, ZachariasX said:

Thanks! Not that I would want to make an argument for any revisions, but talking to the folks who make the repros of the N.23, it appears to me that flight speeds like that with such engines are - while maybe possible - somewhat in opposition to reasonable engine life, if you were to operate such a crate.

 

But I‘m glad to read that you‘re happy with it in FC! Can‘t try it out until I‘m back home, so other opinions have to do for now.

 

 

According to Nieuport Aircraft of World War One, Sanger, 2002:

 

 

Top speed at 2000m = 162km/h (100mph) TAS = 147km/h (91mph) IAS

 

Apart from its slightly optimistic rate of climb, it seems quite accurate.

 

 

Then again, what matters most is how it compares to:

 

• The Nieuport 17 (110hp Le Rhône): In RoF the N17 is slightly slower on the level but climbs better and has a better rate of turn. Apart from the fact that they should have the exact same speed, this seems pretty accurate.
  
  
  
   
• The Sopwith Pup (same 80hp Le Rhône): Pre-1.034 it was a monster with a top speed of 176km/h, almost 10km/h more than the N11, a slightly better climb and the best rate of turn of any scout in the sim. Post-1.034 its top speed is in the low 160s (162km/h iirc), climbs worse than the N11, but still retains most of its rate of turn -- all of which makes sense, considering how the Pup is a heavier full biplane, but with better wing/span loading. We'll have to wait until FC4 to see whether we get the Pup in God Mode ?‍?️ or in Dog Mode ?.
  
  For the record: 180km/h (112 mph) remains the official figure for the Sopwith Pup, which it probably did reach with the 100hp Gnome Monosoupape.
   

Edited July 26, 2023 by =IRFC=Hellbender

[ZachariasX]

14 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

The Nieuport 17 (110hp Le Rhône)

There are some official versions of the performance, see also quoted here:

https://www.nieuport.ch/#original

 

Those state 172 km/h for the 110 hp LeRhône. What I have learned so far from talking with the pilot is 92 mph for the 90 hp version. The 110 hp engine they got gives 100 rpm higher static run with the same propeller, this one:

 

 

Isidor, the pilot who made the flight certification of the first Nieuport, he just laughed at the idea that the N.23 would hit said 172 km/h. They do triangle flights recorded on the GPS. Like that they have both actual speeds as well as pitot error. With all this, they have remarkably precise indications.

 

From what I gather, they have an original LeRhône used by the Swiss Air Force on both N.23 and HD.1. They refurbished it with the help of Mikael Carlson and have done static runs so far. They use a modern tachometer (just the clock face is made as it looked back then) hooked up to the oil pump that in turn is hooked to the crank shaft by a 3:1 gearing. They get exact readings like that that match optical measurement on the prop.

 

I think that there are somewhat „organic“ boundaries to where you can push those engines, and if you do push them, there will be results, such as @Chill31 had them. 

 

But as said, I think for the game it is the sensible thing letting the planes perform to official documentation (as much of a best case this might be) as opening the discussion of what you would do if the plane ran on your wallet…

[PA_Keko_]

Nice!!!

[BMA_Hellbender]

20 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

There are some official versions of the performance, see also quoted here:

https://www.nieuport.ch/#original

 

Those state 172 km/h for the 110 hp LeRhône. What I have learned so far from talking with the pilot is 92 mph for the 90 hp version. The 110 hp engine they got gives 100 rpm higher static run with the same propeller, this one:

 

 

Isidor, the pilot who made the flight certification of the first Nieuport, he just laughed at the idea that the N.23 would hit said 172 km/h. They do triangle flights recorded on the GPS. Like that they have both actual speeds as well as pitot error. With all this, they have remarkably precise indications.

 

From what I gather, they have an original LeRhône used by the Swiss Air Force on both N.23 and HD.1. They refurbished it with the help of Mikael Carlson and have done static runs so far. They use a modern tachometer (just the clock face is made as it looked back then) hooked up to the oil pump that in turn is hooked to the crank shaft by a 3:1 gearing. They get exact readings like that that match optical measurement on the prop.

 

I think that there are somewhat „organic“ boundaries to where you can push those engines, and if you do push them, there will be results, such as @Chill31 had them. 

 

But as said, I think for the game it is the sensible thing letting the planes perform to official documentation (as much of a best case this might be) as opening the discussion of what you would do if the plane ran on your wallet…

 

The Nieuport 23 and Hanriot HD.1 both used the Le Rhône 9J, but only early versions of that engine produced 110hp, later versions (9Jb) produced something along the lines of 130hp, same as with the Oberursel UR.II. In RoF/FC the UR.II is rated at 110hp, but in fact it's closer to 120hp. That is at least clearly visible on the Fokker D.VIII which has much higher static RPM than the Fokker Dr.I with the "same" engine. I have no other way to explain the discrepancy.

 

All this to say: the Hanriot HD.1 with it's later Le Rhône 9Jb has a top speed of 180km/h according to the Belgian Air Service. In RoF its top speed is around 186km/h with the Le Rhône 9Jby.

[ZachariasX]

57 minutes ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

The Nieuport 23 and Hanriot HD.1 both used the Le Rhône 9J, but only early versions of that engine produced 110hp, later versions (9Jb) produced something along the lines of 130hp, same as with the Oberursel UR.II.

They were definitely swapping engines all the time and used whatever they had at hands, at least in the SAF, but I suspect this may have happened elsewhere as well.

[BMA_Hellbender]

1 hour ago, ZachariasX said:

They were definitely swapping engines all the time and used whatever they had at hands, at least in the SAF, but I suspect this may have happened elsewhere as well.

 

Indeed. I'm mostly thinking of the upcoming Nieuport 17 which will have the (1916) 110hp Le Rhône 9J and the Hanriot HD.1 which will have the (1918) 130hp Le Rhône 9Jby. There's no (1917) 120hp 9Jb Le Rhône in the sim.

 

 

For the Belgians it was quite straightforward: they never operated any Nieuport 17s with the 110hp 9J. Well, one or two, but they were used as trainers. The rest were Nieuport 23s with a 120hp Le Rhône 9Jb.

 

https://www.belgian-wings.be/nieuport-17-23

 

 

They did however operate Nieuport 11s field modded to 16 by swapping out their 80hp Le Rhône 9C for 110hp Le Rhône 9J.

 

https://www.belgian-wings.be/nieuport-11-c1-16-c1

 

 

And finally all their Hanriots were delivered in either 1917 or 1918, meaning they would have used the more powerful 120hp Le Rhône 9Jb also found on the Nieuport 23. Perhaps also the 130hp Le Rhône 9Jby by mid-1918.

 

https://www.belgian-wings.be/hanriot-hd-1

[Blitzen]

On 7/26/2023 at 1:16 PM, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

 

Good stuff!

 

First impressions:

• N11 flies great, seems like a high fidelity port of the RoF FM. It looks great, too!
   
• Halberstadt D.II has some weird force feedback bug when no airflow is going over the control surfaces. Comparable but not the same as the existing bug with the Sopwith Triplane. In this case the elevator seems to have no vertical deflection at all (vertical axis completely limp), but instead the stick either falls to the left or to the right and does so in a rather jittery way. Once in flight FFB seems to behave better, it's quite stiff though.

Same problem but when last played I believe its fixed(?)

[ZachariasX]

5 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

Indeed

Cool links, good info! Thanks!

[BlitzPig_EL]

Why does the N.11 always give an over cooled message in the the tech chat?  It never seems to hurt the engine, and even trying various mix settings it never goes away, unless you are doing tight maneuvering in a dogfight.  I've not seen this behavior in any of the other rotary engines in the sim. 

 

Otherwise I find the Noop to be a really fun aeroplane to fly.  The Halberstadt D.II is not as dynamic as the N.11, but it is, to me, an easy kite to get along with if a bit stiff compared to the French machine.

 

Now we need some period correct two seaters for them to fly with.  For now I use the DWF for the Central Powers and sub in the U2VS for the Entente as all the other French or English two seaters are rocket ships compared to the N.11 or D.II.

Edited July 30, 2023 by BlitzPig_EL

[BMA_Hellbender]

On 7/28/2023 at 5:01 PM, Blitzen said:

Same problem but when last played I believe its fixed(?)

 

It's not apparent at all when you're flying, but it's unfortunately not yet fixed.

 

Hardly a gamebreaking bug though, just annoying.

[DouglasCorgi]

If my Steam account is linked to my IL-2 account, I'll be able to play the planes of Vol. III as they come out like I was able to with Vol. II, correct?

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Not sure.  I bought everything from the il2 store.  Seems like, people who used steam for FC2,  didn't get the FC2 content until it was released as a full module?  Might be wrong on that??   Sorry, no help..

Edited September 20, 2023 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[JG4_Moltke1871]

22 hours ago, DouglasCorgi said:

If my Steam account is linked to my IL-2 account, I'll be able to play the planes of Vol. III as they come out like I was able to with Vol. II, correct?

I have mixed Steam/Il2 content, buy FC3 in the Il2 store already, everything works fine ?