VKB TECS Release - Finally ?

[LukeFF]

[Hook_Echo]

The throttles don't look to have any of those magically magnetic programmable detents they hyped. We'll see...

 

Curious to see what changes are in the gunfighter mkIV.

 

This feels unreal after this many years.

[Odovacer]

Sweeeet! And here's me looking for a throttle!

[1Sascha]

"Release"? Not so sure about that. The video very much looks like a teaser to me and I don't see the thing listed for sale on either the VKB US or EU web-stores.

 

 

It's funny reading the comments on that YT-video of folks stating they'll be selling their WHTs and even CM3s with just a teaser of the VKB throttle available - especially since as far as I understand it, those digital detents they've been talking about won't be available at launch. Those would be a huge plus especially in IL-2 where you'd have to adjust your detents near constantly when you switch from one plane to another. I'm currently on an 80% throttle upper detent on my CM3, which works perfectly for the 109s, but doesn't work in the 190s.

 

Still: Nice to see this thing is finally leaving "Daikatana"-/Duke Nukem Forever"-territory and getting close to release.

 

Personally, I'm very happy with my CM3 and I don't think I'll swap that one out anytime soon (would be my fourth throttle in a year, I still have my TWCS and WHT sitting around here to prove it, lol!). I'm much more interested in that Gunfighter Mk IV they also tease (very briefly) in that video and what sort of changes we'll see on that one.

 

While the GF Mk III is a *great* stick, I'd love for it to have clutches you can adjust without having to disassemble, partially re-assemble, then disassemble and re-assemble again. More importantly, I'd also love for it to not eat through springs at a rate of more than one snapped spring per month. I bought my Mk III in September 2022 and I'm down to just two #40 springs remaining (plus one currently in use) from the rather substantial supply the stick came with.

 

Didn't count how many the stick came with, but I'd reckon it's at least 20 springs of each strength they supply you with, so I've used up 17 of those #40 springs in 10 or 11 months. Granted: My stick is on the heavier side WRT spring-tension (50+40 on Y, 40+30 on X), and thus clutch-strength and I do use a 100mm extension and fly for at least 2 hours a day, every day. But still ... ?

 

 

 

S.

Edited July 18, 2023 by 1Sascha

[kissTheSky]

At least no more dancers ?

[1Sascha]

1 hour ago, kissTheSky said:

At least no more dancers

I was going to complain to VKB about the shocking lack of tango-dancers ... ?

 

S.

Edited July 18, 2023 by 1Sascha

[dburne]

Strange, in all the time I ran my Gunfighter Mk III  I never had a spring break.

 

Anyway glad to see some movement finally on the TECS throttle from VKB. I had decided they shelved the project and were just going to stick with the cheaper devices.

I finally gave up some time ago and got a Virpil CM3 Throttle. And then earlier this year got the Virpil base and Alpha Prime grip  and using it now rather than my Gunfighter Mk III.

 

So no real desire now on my end to invest in this new TECS throttle. I look forward to eventually seeing user reports on it.

 

[Hook_Echo]

@1Sascha I run a 100mm extension and 40+50 springs on each axis. I have yet to break a spring. I have an old NXT that did break springs monthly. VKB had a bad batch of springs for a while. If you contact customer service they'll send you new springs. That solved my problem on the NXT.

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, kissTheSky said:

At least no more dancers ?

 

Thank goodness. ? 

 

7 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

"Release"? Not so sure about that. The video very much looks like a teaser to me and I don't see the thing listed for sale on either the VKB US or EU web-stores.

 

LOL yes, true. But, I think with this one we can finally say we are finally, substantially closer to an actual release rather than this being just another ambiguous video where nothing is really revealed. 

 

As for myself, I just hope that there is a warbird grip option available at launch. Since they already do have such a grip available on their other throttle line, it does give me hope that will be the case. I don't have any desire for something super-modern looking that has no resemblance to something used in a prop plane.

[LukeFF]

The latest news from their Twitter page:

 

 

[1Sascha]

16 hours ago, LukeFF said:

The latest news from their Twitter page:

Good news, but ... we shall see about that, shan't we? ?

 

 

17 hours ago, Hook_Echo said:

VKB had a bad batch of springs for a while. If you contact customer service they'll send you new springs.

 

 

Yeah, I was starting to wonder if I'd received a bad batch or something. Gotta add that even though I bought the stick from VKB EU brand new in Sept 2022, the production date on the packaging is Sept 2020, so perhaps that was the "spring dark ages" back then? ?

 

 

Thing is I did speak to someone from VKB about this (probably fallout, but I can't remember who it was) and he said that breakage like that was normal wear and tear and the reason why they include so many replacement springs with their sticks. Although, at that time I think I had only had one or two springs snap on me, so I still thought this would be an occasional thing - not a regular event. And certainly not the 17+ that have given up the ghost on me in 10 or 11 months now. The #40 ones weren't the only ones to snap, so overall I've gone through well over 20 springs by now, I assume.

 

 EDIT: I just contacted them on discord. Let's see what happens. So far, VKB have been super helpful with all problems with their gear I've run into. I just hope they don't consider 1 to 2 snapped springs per month "normal". Their replacement set would cost around €10 (incl shipping) and, at this rate, would only last a few months, seeing how it only contains 8 springs. ?

 

 

S.

Edited July 19, 2023 by 1Sascha

[Drano]

I've had my GF/MCG-Pro since 2018. Haven't had the 200mm extension all that time but I'm a 40+30 spring on both axii. Never broke a spring.

 

I also got tired of waiting on this and went with the CM3 a few months ago which I'm perfectly happy with. It's a super throttle. Incredibly well built. Can't imagine replacing it now. I'm looking forward to some actual reviews too. 

[BMA_FlyingShark]

3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

I just hope that there is a warbird grip option available at launch. Since they already do have such a grip available on their other throttle line, it does give me hope that will be the case. I don't have any desire for something super-modern looking that has no resemblance to something used in a prop plane.

I feel the same way.

TECS is actually the reason I've been holding off to buy their other WWII model throttle.

If they don't make one like that for TECS, it'll be the existing one for me.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[kissTheSky]

I’m in VR, so I’m a bit indifferent to modern/WWII style grips. However, I was lucky to get a 2nd hand GVL throttle some time ago, so I’ll most likely wait and see if digital detent version becomes available. And even then, I may opt for an MFG rudder first. 

[Charger_]

Great, im going to jump on this.

 

I've been looking to ditch my TM T1600 throttle for a long time now. Its very twitchy and poorly built. But i keep it, because in VR it has so many handy switches and hats. I already have a VKB Gladiator and GNX-THQ, and are very happy with VKB. 

[LuftManu]

Damm! Looks really good!

I just ordered a Virpil CM3, but I think this might be a good idea on a tight budget too.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, kissTheSky said:

I’m in VR, so I’m a bit indifferent to modern/WWII style grips. However, I was lucky to get a 2nd hand GVL throttle some time ago, so I’ll most likely wait and see if digital detent version becomes available. And even then, I may opt for an MFG rudder first. 

 

Yes, I've been using a GVL throttle for a while now, but the axes are pretty noisy and constantly jump around in whatever plane or sim I'm flying. So, one way or another, this thing is going to be replaced. 

[kissTheSky]

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, I've been using a GVL throttle for a while now, but the axes are pretty noisy and constantly jump around in whatever plane or sim I'm flying. So, one way or another, this thing is going to be replaced. 

Yeah, I’ve interference between roll and pitch trim pots as well. they’re too close together that when I trim roll, the pitch pot moves as well.

[Lemmi]

Once again: we do need 128 buttons per usb-device support!

[Hanu]

1 minute ago, Lemmi said:

Once again: we do need 128 buttons per usb-device support!

Luckily Gremlin is very nice workaround, but yes, I agree.

[kissTheSky]

1 hour ago, Lemmi said:

Once again: we do need 128 buttons per usb-device support!

Do we even need 32? For me it’s about the electronic detents, but if the board has the capacity, would you have them limit the buttons?

[kissTheSky]

On another note, I’ve always found VKB’s tendency to post and provide much more information on Reddit than their official forums. Perplexing to me, really.

[1Sascha]

Here you go:

 

 

 

Only skimmed through it so far myself, but it's an insanely long post with a ton of information and pics.

 

Quote

Now, the prose of life. PRICES!

RRP:

• STECS MINI $199

• STECS MINI PLUS $219

• STECS STANDARD $279

• STECS MAX $319

Availability: AUGUST, 2023. (although most of our patent applications are already approved we still need one to get properly registered; it won’t stop the show but due procedure has to be followed)

 

S.

Edited July 19, 2023 by 1Sascha

[dburne]

Seems the VKB folks finally woke up from their slumber. Good to see some very nice hardware being offered again.

[1Sascha]

15 minutes ago, dburne said:

Seems the VKB folks finally woke up from their slumber. Good to see some very nice hardware being offered again.

I haven't quite figured out how that detent-system is supposed to work - but I've not yet sat down and read the whole post thoroughly.

But from what I understood so far, these are still mechanical detents, not the digital ones they've been talking about.

 

In any case... as I've been saying since I bought the thing in early 2023, I'm extremely happy with my Virpil CM3 and I don't see the need to buy a fourth throttle in under a year.

 

However: The changes to the GF sound very promising. They seem to have addressed quite a lot of the points of criticism folks have thrown at them. Not sure I want to upgrade my Mk III to a Mk IV - I'll wait for the usual suspects to run the new stick through its paces. But at least there will be an option to buy an upgrade kit.

 

Can't say I'm unhappy with the clutches on mine (after I cleaned them and put some proper braking grease on there, that is :D) and while my grip connector did give me some trouble initially, it's been behaving flawlessly since they sent me some new fasteners and I bought a proper, t-handle hex key to tighten things down. It is good to know though that if I'd decide to upgrade my Mk III's MCGP to a Mk III MCGU, that Mk III grip (in stock form) would not be compatible with a Mk IV base. I was getting kinda sorta close to buying the Ultimate, but I think now I'll wait a little longer and "make do" with my non-metal MCGP.. ?

 

 

S.

Edited July 19, 2023 by 1Sascha

[LukeFF]

I still need to read through the whole announcement, but just glancing over things, it's a disappointment that there isn't going to be a throttle with a simple warbird grip in Phase 1. I know they said there's a chance of that occurring later on, but who knows how long that will take. 

[LukeFF]

Well, looking at the news, I am definitely interested in the upgrade kit for the Gunfighter (already upgraded it once to Mk III, so why not again? ?). But, the throttle I'm going to hold off on for now. I just don't have the need for such a monstrous thing. If they offer up a better single-throttle grip then I am sure my opinion will change.

[LuftManu]

48 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Well, looking at the news, I am definitely interested in the upgrade kit for the Gunfighter (already upgraded it once to Mk III, so why not again? ?). But, the throttle I'm going to hold off on for now. I just don't have the need for such a monstrous thing. If they offer up a better single-throttle grip then I am sure my opinion will change.

I also have the Mk.III so I am following this! 

 

 

[dburne]

Yeah I just don't see the need for all that stuff they are putting on their throttle, all the different configs confuse me enough as it is. I love the simplicity of my Virpil CM3, been using it about a year and a half and it has not missed a beat. Only reason I got the CM3 was just got tired of all the waiting for the VKB offering. And I just recently moved from my VKB Mk III stick to Virpil CM3 stick as well and have been well pleased with it also.  Been using the new stick around 6 months now.

 

Probably it would have been good for VKB to break all that info down into two announcements rather than one ( throttle - stick), it just has too much info all in one document. Having said that though that is some really nice looking hardware VKB is bringing to the community and that is a good thing.

Edited July 19, 2023 by dburne

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

Yeah I just don't see the need for all that stuff they are putting on their throttle, all the different configs confuse me enough as it is. I love the simplicity of my Virpil CM3, been using it about a year and a half and it has not missed a beat. Only reason I got the CM3 was just got tired of all the waiting for the VKB offering. And I just recently moved from my VKB Mk III stick to Virpil CM3 stick as well and have been well pleased with it also.  Been using the new stick around 6 months now.

 

Probably it would have been good for VKB to break all that info down into two announcements rather than one ( throttle - stick), it just has too much info all in one document. Having said that though that is some really nice looking hardware VKB is bringing to the community and that is a good thing.

 

Yes, my hope is that whatever comes with Phase Two has some more offerings for GA & Warbird pilots. 

[1Sascha]

4 hours ago, dburne said:

Only reason I got the CM3 was just got tired of all the waiting for the VKB offering

Same here... sorta. The prices look interesting (I'd be looking at the "standard" config) - even though they will probably be quite a lot higher for both US and EU customers. US store adds 40 or 50 USD for shipping IIRC (plus some local taxes perhaps?) and EU prices are usually somewhere close to US base price + US shipping + local tax. So I'm expecting a "true" price range of around €250 to €400 over here.

 

But I'm not sure I would've gone with a brand new product as opposed to the "tried and tested" CM3. Plus I did get to use a CM3 briefly before I ordered, so I had at least a rough idea of what I was going to get.

 

In any case: The one thing that would've swung the pendulum all the way towards VKB for me (despite everything I just said) would've been those digital detents. Which, apparently, are not featured on any of the four "phase one" models.

 

 

S.

[1Sascha]

Nearly forgot:

 

They didn't mention anything about clutch access, but from that pic, I would assume that Mk IV will be just as clumsy in that regard as Mk III.

 

Looks like you'll still have to take off the grip, then take off the dust-cover, then put back in the four screws securing the base's housing to the mount's plate, then put on the grip again, then manipulate the clutches, then take off the grip, then re-fit the dust-cover and then finally re-attach the grip.

 

Which might not be as awkward with a GF set up for table-top use (does anyone use these sticks like that?), but when you have it on a VKB-mount, with the base hanging underneath the mount's base-plate, it's quite the operation ...

 

 

I can't say I'm happy about the fact that my (mounted) stick is nearing its one-year anniversary and I'm starting to think about getting those clutches re-greased.... ?

 

 

S.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by 1Sascha

[dburne]

16 minutes ago, 1Sascha said:

Nearly forgot:

 

They didn't mention anything about clutch access, but from that pic, I would assume that Mk IV will be just as clumsy in that regard as Mk III.

 

Looks like you'll still have to take off the grip, then take off the dust-cover, then put back in the four screws securing the base's housing to the mount's plate, then put on the grip again, then manipulate the clutches, then take off the grip, then re-fit the dust-cover and then finally re-attach the grip.

 

Which might not be as awkward with a GF set up for table-top use (does anyone use these sticks like that?), but when you have it on a VKB-mount, with the base hanging underneath the mount's base-plate, it's quite the operation ...

 

 

I can't say I'm happy about the fact that my (mounted) stick is nearing its one-year anniversary and I'm starting to think about getting those clutches re-greased.... ?

 

 

S.

 

 

 

It would be a shame if they continued to not offer access from the outside of the casing for the clutch system.  That was one of my bigger gripes and one reason I elected to go with the Virpil CM3 offering as well. Looking at the official announcement and pics of the gimbal base, they are located where one could easily access them from the top of the case providing there is a hole there in the top casing  for accesing those two screws. Surely there will be. Unfortunately there is not a pic of that top casing/cover.

Edited July 20, 2023 by dburne

[1Sascha]

8 minutes ago, dburne said:

they are located where one could easily access them from the top of the case providing there is a hole there in the top casing  for accesing those two screws.

While the clutch part looks a bit different (as expected, cause: new clutches), the locations of the two adjustment screws are the same as on the Mk III - or very similar... I'm too lazy ATM to undo my dust-cover and check

 

 

 

 

 

Meaning you would still have to have two holes going through the dust-cover in order to access the screws. With either hole possibly having to go through two "folds" of the cover. Which probably isn't the best way of doing a dust-cover. And they do show the dust-cover (kinda) in this pic..

 

... looks pretty much exactly like my Mk III's dust-cover and I don't see any holes.

 

BTW: There are two more screws on there (one for each axis it seems) which are probably the spring pre-tensioners. Those also look like they can only be accessed with the cover off - and would mean you'd have to have four holes in your cover in order to access everything from the outside.

 

I always thought that, even on the Mk III, they could've simply changed the type of dust-cover somehow, making the inclusion of those two access-holes possible, but alas...

 

S.

Edited July 20, 2023 by 1Sascha

[dburne]

Well I don't know but seems raising a dust cover up a bit would be far easier than having to remove the top casing.

Hmm well I guess on second thought one would still have to remove screws to get that dust cover up... Crazy.

Edited July 20, 2023 by dburne

[spreckair]

I am on my second Thrustmaster TWCS (in two years) and even it is getting a bit dodgy.  I think the STECS might just be my next purchase.  Now, if I can be patient enough to wait for the reviews and other user experience stories.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, 1Sascha said:

They didn't mention anything about clutch access, but from that pic, I would assume that Mk IV will be just as clumsy in that regard as Mk III.

 

Looks like you'll still have to take off the grip, then take off the dust-cover, then put back in the four screws securing the base's housing to the mount's plate, then put on the grip again, then manipulate the clutches, then take off the grip, then re-fit the dust-cover and then finally re-attach the grip.

 

Which might not be as awkward with a GF set up for table-top use (does anyone use these sticks like that?), but when you have it on a VKB-mount, with the base hanging underneath the mount's base-plate, it's quite the operation ...

 

I can't say I'm happy about the fact that my (mounted) stick is nearing its one-year anniversary and I'm starting to think about getting those clutches re-greased.... ?

 

That is my main gripe with the Gunfighter as well. My guess is that this is the best they could do right now without a whole redesign of the base, which then of course is going to piss off people like myself when they are told they have to buy an entire new base instead of just an upgrade kit.

[1Sascha]

2 hours ago, dburne said:

well I guess on second thought one would still have to remove screws to get that dust cover up

Yeah... and the problem with a mounted base is that those same four screws that hold on the cover also fix the base's housing to the mount's base-plate (from which the whole base hangs). *And* on the inside there's a strand of pretty fragile wires connecting the gimbal's PCB to the base housing's PCB (which sits behind the housing's front, behind the socket for the wire connecting the base to the black box). So you have to hold that housing in place while loosening those four screws (since you absolutely don't want the metal housing to drop while the internal wires are plugged into that PCB).

 

With a bit of practice it's not as bad as all that, but let's just say I'm really not looking forward to taking the thing apart and putting it back together whenever a spring snaps... ?

 

58 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

My guess is that this is the best they could do right now without a whole redesign of the base, which then of course is going to piss off people like myself when they are told they have to buy an entire new base instead of just an upgrade kit.

 

To me, that seems like the most likely scenario, too. They would have to make the base larger overall plus probably change the gimbal, too. Hence my thoughts about simply putting on a different kind of dust-cover ... but perhaps that wouldn't physically be possible. ?‍♂️

 

 

S.

Edited July 20, 2023 by 1Sascha

[Drano]

I made a metal base plate for my OG MkI, RevA Gunfighter. I have holes drilled in it so I can easily adjust the clutches from the bottom. The adjusting screws face downward on mine. I figured there had to be a better way than taking the thing apart, adjust, put back together, test, oops--that's too tight, take back apart, loosen, that's better. Yeah that got old real quick! Necessity is the mother of invention and all that! The base isn't going anywhere!

 

I'd updated mine to the MkIII PCB when that kit came out. I'll probably update again to MKIV if there's something in the kit to take care of the grip/gimbal connection to bring them both to the current standard. Mine being original equipment, has the pins facing up.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

Yeah... and the problem with a mounted base is that those same four screws that hold on the cover also fix the base's housing to the mount's base-plate (from which the whole base hangs). *And* on the inside there's a strand of pretty fragile wires connecting the gimbal's PCB to the base housing's PCB (which sits behind the housing's front, behind the socket for the wire connecting the base to the black box). So you have to hold that housing in place while loosening those four screws (since you absolutely don't want the metal housing to drop while the internal wires are plugged into that PCB).

 

With a bit of practice it's not as bad as all that, but let's just say I'm really not looking forward to taking the thing apart and putting it back together whenever a spring snaps... ?

 

 

Oh trust me I am well familiar with that having taken my MKIII apart a few times early on. Even had a wire cut and had to solder it back together from it getting caught on something in that base.

One thing I love about my Virpil CM3 base, all adjustments are from exterior.

Edited July 20, 2023 by dburne