Update 5.102 Discussion thread

[LuftManu]

12 hours ago, Thales said:

I compared the performance of the new Bf 109 G-6/AS (with MW-50 modification) to the G-14 at 7.5 km altitude and was suprised to see that both models achieve the same top speed. I then noticed that the MW-50 system is automatically switched off at about 6.5 km altitude in both models. Shouldn't the larger supercharger and thus higher rated altitude of the DB 605 ASM engine allow the use of MW-50 at higher altitudes?

 

MW50 for both DB605AS/ASM and DB605 DB/DC can work up to 8000 m.

The higher pressure from the supercharger will help the MW50 flow from the tank to the engine. Apart from the benefits of the cooling from the MW50 and bursts of 10 min at max power, the Critical altitude has risen from up top 9000m on the AS/ASM engines.

[Boelcke]

18 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

The G-6/AS with MW50 is essentially a G-14/AS. ?

 

 

No, sorry - only the very early Bf109G-14/AS´s did have the DB 605ASM engine from the G-6/AS.

 

The other had the DB 605ASCM, DB 605ASMO, DB 605ASB, DB 605ASC and DB 605D engines. IT had also  larger oil coolers and a larger supercharger.

 

The Bf109G-6/AS lacked performance at lower altidues, whereas the Bf109G-14/AS didn´t had this problem.

 

 

[the_emperor]

7 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Quick question - Why should I get the Bf-109G6/AS? I admit that the streamlining looks nice... but there are already a lot of seemingly similar variants (G6, G6 Late, G14). So... anyone want to sell me on it?

Then it just the looks. Below 4/5k the regular 109s should perform better a bit better due be being a bit lighter, having a bit more power and utilizing a more efficient airscrew for lower altitudes 

[Roland_HUNter]

On 4/26/2023 at 8:32 AM, Boelcke said:

I´m sorry, but a Bf109G-14/AS would have made more sense for the the game.

 

In the BoN only JG 1 and 11 had some few G-6/AS and for time frame of BoBP the Bf109G-14/AS was used in large numbers by many units.

 

"The successor to the G-6/ AS was the G-14/ AS, which was apparently built in considerably greater numbers. The G-14/AS was supposed to be improved over the G-6/AS through the adoption of the Fo 987 oil cooler, as the cooling capability of the earlier Fo 870 was considered insufficient. Externally this change was recognizable by a considerably larger, deeper oil cooler bath beneath the engine cowling. ln fact the Fo 987 oil cooler was not
installed in every case, so that many G-14/AS aircraft retained the Fo 870 oil cooler and were thus externally indistinguishable from the G-6/AS."

 

Source: Messerschmitt Bf 109 F/G/K/ Series : An Illustrated Study by  Peter Rodeike, Jochen Prien. Page 147-148.

 

And let's not forget, there was the G-5/AS, which received an AS engine from May 1944. About 20 of those were made as well.

[C6_lefuneste]

On 4/26/2023 at 7:35 AM, EAF51_Havebug said:

I have the Rhino FFB stick as well and experiencing the same issue...

I'll try to reinstall everything.

No issue with my DIY Rhino...

[Roland_HUNter]

8 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Quick question - Why should I get the Bf-109G6/AS? I admit that the streamlining looks nice... but there are already a lot of seemingly similar variants (G6, G6 Late, G14). So... anyone want to sell me on it?

You can also use the 1.7 ATA for 3 minutes without MW-50 filler modification.(ASM/C3 modi) Without MW-50 fluid, the machine is 61 kg lighter than the others.

What I don't understand is why can't the FUG be removed from the G-6 Late and AS? While in G-14 I can decide if I want to take it.

 

[JG4_Moltke1871]

@Jaegermeister

I played the first mission of the Siemens Schuckert  scripted campaign. I let the Fokker squad destroy the balloon while I patrol over the scenery and pick up the defending Spad‘s. RTB with the Fokkers but no mission success. What are the conditions for a successful sortie ?

I have to destroy the balloon myself or have to shoot some bullets on it?

[Jaegermeister]

58 minutes ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

@Jaegermeister

I played the first mission of the Siemens Schuckert  scripted campaign. I let the Fokker squad destroy the balloon while I patrol over the scenery and pick up the defending Spad‘s. RTB with the Fokkers but no mission success. What are the conditions for a successful sortie ?

I have to destroy the balloon myself or have to shoot some bullets on it?

 

If you go to Waypoint 2 on your map and then anyone kills the balloon, the Primary goal will be complete.

[[CPT]Crunch]

2 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

You can also use the 1.7 ATA for 3 minutes without MW-50 filler modification.(ASM/C3 modi) Without MW-50 fluid, the machine is 61 kg lighter than the others.

What I don't understand is why can't the FUG be removed from the G-6 Late and AS? While in G-14 I can decide if I want to take it.

 

Why it's a great idea to go full boost for a 10 minute climb out and burn the initial third of a tank down, than cool or run in combat power for five minutes and start the hunt with next of two 10 minutes cycles of full boost left with a good fighting weight.  The fuel burn is atrocious, better plan on being pointed home within forty minutes on a maximum burn schedule.  Can see why they attempted to get an external fuel cell going to coincide with this beast.

 

It's a great looking model, the uneven cowling covers and gasket seals out the front along with recessed fasteners are quite a visual treat in VR.  Keep getting more detailed as we go, although I'm pretty sure I'd get some major bruises and abrasions trying to work that right rudder pedal, too much jagged hardware obstructing into that pathway.

[EAF51_Havebug]

3 hours ago, C6_lefuneste said:

No issue with my DIY Rhino...

There was an issue with firmware. Everything is working smoothly now

[Avimimus]

I thought I wouldn't like the SSW D.IV that much - it would be interesting, with its smaller area higher aspect ratio wings and big radial engine - it was definitely something to look forward to - but I also thought it wouldn't be a pleasure to fly. I was wrong.

 

I am really liking this plane.

 

[Jaegermeister]

35 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

I thought I wouldn't like the SSW D.IV that much - it would be interesting, with its smaller area higher aspect ratio wings and big radial engine - it was definitely something to look forward to - but I also thought it wouldn't be a pleasure to fly. I was wrong.

 

I am really liking this plane.

 

I have enjoyed flying it a lot too. It outperforms all it's adversaries, and has a lot easier time in the left hand climbing turn than the Snipe. All a Fokker D.VII has to do to stay out of a Snipe's sights is climb to the left with no engine torque. The Camel and Snipe are not on par with the SSW D.IV, but watch out for a Spad above you, even though you can outturn them. Landing is tricky, but medium throttle and using the blip switch seems to make it a little more manageable to keep it straight.

 

The machine guns misfire more than most similar planes. I'm not sure if that is a problem or a "feature". I don't think it was an issue historically. The Snipe had a lot of problems with their MG connecting rods and interrupter gear but I don't think the 08/15 7.92mm Spandau guns had any problems at that point.

 

[the_emperor]

4 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

You can also use the 1.7 ATA for 3 minutes without MW-50 filler modification.(ASM/C3 modi)

I hope they will now finally correct the Start&Notleistung time (1.42ata/B4) to 3min…its been since 2018…

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, Boelcke said:

No, sorry - only the very early Bf109G-14/AS´s did have the DB 605ASM engine from the G-6/AS.

 

The other had the DB 605ASCM, DB 605ASMO, DB 605ASB, DB 605ASC and DB 605D engines.

 

Well, even if that's the case, you're just gonna have to accept that the G-6/AS as depicted in the Rhineland timeframe is a so-called early production G-14/AS. And, as the supporting literature shows, hardly anything with late-war German fighter design is neat and clean. They were putting these things together with whatever was at hand. 

 

Besides that, let's be realistic here - how many G-14/AS planes actually made it to an operational unit with that many different engine variants, and how would you determine which one was the most common? ?

[Roland_HUNter]

33 minutes ago, the_emperor said:

I hope they will now finally correct the Start&Notleistung time (1.42ata/B4) to 3min…its been since 2018…

And this ?

 

[Corralandy120000]

Where can I find G6AS Skin template pelase? Is it already released? Thanks 

[Wardog5711]

It has not been released yet.

[Corralandy120000]

8 minutes ago, Wardog5711 said:

It has not been released yet.

Thanks for info. May I ask when do you plan to release it?

[Wardog5711]

I don't have the release date yet.
As soon as I do, I'll let you know.

[Corralandy120000]

43 minutes ago, Wardog5711 said:

I don't have the release date yet.
As soon as I do, I'll let you know.

Thanks

[ScotsmanFlyingscotsman]

On 4/25/2023 at 8:56 PM, Regingrave said:

Вest is the enemy of the good.

Adding more points would put too much additional stress on GUI in general, so we preferred more simple and elegant solution.

 

On Normal difficulty try switching RPM and engine controls to manual mode (LShift+M by default).

Regingrave, THANK YOU, it works! much appreciated. 

[JG4_Moltke1871]

9 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

If you go to Waypoint 2 on your map and then anyone kills the balloon, the Primary goal will be complete.

The flight ignore this waypoint. In my third try I go there, the flight killed the balloon, RTB and again got no primary objective. 3 times meanwhile the balloon was destroyed, RTB and mission failed.

[Roland_HUNter]

6 hours ago, the_emperor said:

I hope they will now finally correct the Start&Notleistung time (1.42ata/B4) to 3min…its been since 2018…

Do you have any info about, why the G-6/AS has worse climbing ability than other 109s?
AS:

17.3 m/s Sea

16.2 m/s 3k

12.1 m/s 6k

G-6 Late.

20.6 m/s Sea

18.3 m/s 3k

14.1 m/s 6k

[Jaegermeister]

4 minutes ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

The flight ignore this waypoint. In my third try I go there, the flight killed the balloon, RTB and again got no primary objective. 3 times meanwhile the balloon was destroyed, RTB and mission failed.

 

Don't stay with the flight of Fokkers. You are faster than them and not assigned to that flight. You go to the waypoint and kill the balloon, easy. 

 

I will change the primary goal so that it is not necessary to pass the waypoint. I continue to discover that pilots have creative ways to disregard orders.    

[Gambit21]

One if these days I'm going to really sink my teeth into this sim and WWI. 

 

 

One of my favorite things to do with RoF was a 16 vs 15 air start fur-ball....loads of fun.

It would be even better now with improved AI etc.

 

Fokker DVIII is my ride.

 

 

 

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Of all the WW1 kites to fly against if I wanted easy AI kills, it would be the D.VIII. And it's worse to fly.

 

I don't get that thing at all.  

[Gambit21]

9 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Of all the WW1 kites to fly against if I wanted easy AI kills, it would be the D.VIII. And it's worse to fly.

 

I don't get that thing at all.  

 

 

Somethings not right then.

I haven't flown it or against it in this sim yet.

 

 

Sorry Luke!!!!

[Jaegermeister]

2 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

One of my favorite things to do with RoF was a 16 vs 15 air start fur-ball....loads of fun.

It would be even better now with improved AI etc.

 

Fokker DVIII is my ride.

 

I'm not having any frame rate or time compression trouble with 24+ planes in the air in a furball now on the Western Front map. It's completely playable.

 

The Fokker D.VII is OK, it's smooth and stable. The single plane Fokker D.VIII "Razor Blade" is an upgrade with good power and better climb, but the SSW D.IV is more like a Pitts Special with machine guns. It outclimbs anything, dives fast, and doesn't have as much right hand roll torque as the Camel or Snipe. It doesn't roll like a Pitts, but you can't have everything. I think the Spad 7 is faster in a dive, but that's not too hard to defend against. 

 

If you fly the others and then try out the SSW D.IV I think you will be stuck on it.  

[JG4_Moltke1871]

3 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

Don't stay with the flight of Fokkers. You are faster than them and not assigned to that flight. You go to the waypoint and kill the balloon, easy. 

 

I will change the primary goal so that it is not necessary to pass the waypoint. I continue to discover that pilots have creative ways to disregard orders.    

Yes, give us Germans space to breathe and let us practice our „Auftragstaktik“ ?

 

[the_emperor]

9 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

Do you have any info about, why the G-6/AS has worse climbing ability than other 109s?

 

compared to the normal G-6 its a bit heavier, the AS-engine produces a bit less power due to the bigger charger and it features an airscrew for higher altitudes

[FeuerFliegen]

Just flew the first mission for the SSW D.IV scripted campaign 3 times.  Failed all of them, even though I went through the waypoints, destroyed the balloon, landed safely back home (as it told me to do).  Not sure I'm willing to sacrifice the time to attempt a 4th time

[JG4_Moltke1871]

28 minutes ago, SCG_FeuerFliegen said:

Just flew the first mission for the SSW D.IV scripted campaign 3 times.  Failed all of them, even though I went through the waypoints, destroyed the balloon, landed safely back home (as it told me to do).  Not sure I'm willing to sacrifice the time to attempt a 4th time

Same here..
I think we need a bit patience, Jaegermeister will repair it. I put this scripted campaign in a drawer and fly it again after the next patch ?

[I./JG1_Baron]

7 hours ago, SCG_FeuerFliegen said:

Just flew the first mission for the SSW D.IV scripted campaign 3 times.  Failed all of them, even though I went through the waypoints, destroyed the balloon, landed safely back home (as it told me to do).  Not sure I'm willing to sacrifice the time to attempt a 4th time

 

6 hours ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

Same here..
I think we need a bit patience, Jaegermeister will repair it. I put this scripted campaign in a drawer and fly it again after the next patch ?

 

I will check. In RC version was this mission without any problems. Thank you for the notice.

 

EDIT: You are right guys, 1st mission is unable to comply. Reported by the development.

Edited April 28, 2023 by I./JG1_Baron

[BigMotor]

Great job on the Schuckert.  Art work (especially on the cowl, spinner and engine) is superb.  And also enjoy the way you have to watch the RPM limit in recognition of the RL engine difficulties.

[=NTAC=Professor_Fate]

Bravo! 

[E69_Cananas]

23 hours ago, I./JG1_Baron said:

 

 

I will check. In RC version was this mission without any problems. Thank you for the notice.

 

EDIT: You are right guys, 1st mission is unable to comply. Reported by the development.

 

Really? You even did not read this post from @Jaegermeister, 12 hours earlier than your post. That is silly.

BTW, even if the mission is going to be modified, the mission can be completed.

 

 

 

[FeuerFliegen]

On 4/27/2023 at 7:10 PM, BlitzPig_EL said:

Of all the WW1 kites to fly against if I wanted easy AI kills, it would be the D.VIII. And it's worse to fly.

 

I don't get that thing at all.  

 

 

I like it, and am decent with it.  That being said, from what I've read about it and it's performance, it should perform slightly better than it does in game.

[Zeev]

Nice update, I think its finally time to return to the game and try some of the new official campaigns
But its tough decision as I am not sure if to pick the official or non official version of the Wild Mustangs. 

And oh god I wish I never searched for the info about SSW D.IV which leads to some wiki pages that its better to leave outside of video games.

[I./JG1_Baron]

5 hours ago, E69_Cananas said:

 

Really? You even did not read this post from @Jaegermeister, 12 hours earlier than your post. That is silly.

BTW, even if the mission is going to be modified, the mission can be completed.

 

 

 

 

I read. The problem is that if you fly according to Waypoints, Fokkers will shoot down the balloon before you get there. If you do not fly by WP, you can shoot down even everything on the map, the mission is unsuccessful. Tested several times.

[Hanu]

On 4/28/2023 at 10:10 AM, the_emperor said:

 

compared to the normal G-6 its a bit heavier, the AS-engine produces a bit less power due to the bigger charger and it features an airscrew for higher altitudes

But the difference in climb ratio is not "a bit" and Roland_HUNter was comparing to G6 Late. (which has mystic 93kg extra weight already as some of us wondered when G6Late was released.) But then again, almost all german fighters has 100kg Hermann Göring as a pilot according to luascripts as (most) other planes have no pilot weight added at all.

I actually thought that fix number nine Bf 109 family FM corrected - the bug that reduced their listed climb rates a bit has been fixed; was this fat pilot, but is seems its not.