The Brunner FFB is installed...

[Panzerlang]

To say I'm underwhelmed would be putting it mildly. I've maxed everything out in its own USB config and it's not impressive in testing there. Maybe I got spoiled by the 8nm Fanatec wheel I had for a while.

In IL2, 100% force, there is absolutely zero aileron force and not much elevator either. The stick shakes a bit with guns and jiggles on landing and taxying. And that's it.

£1200 + £250 shipping and six hours of carpentry and metal work. If there was aileron force I think I could get on with it ok but rolling the plane, at any speed, feels so bogus I might as well be using a frikkin' game-pad. What a bunch of tosh.

Oh well, live and learn I guess. Lol.
 

 

 

[SCG_motoadve]

3 hours ago, Hetzer-JG51 said:

To say I'm underwhelmed would be putting it mildly. I've maxed everything out in its own USB config and it's not impressive in testing there. Maybe I got spoiled by the 8nm Fanatec wheel I had for a while.

In IL2, 100% force, there is absolutely zero aileron force and not much elevator either. The stick shakes a bit with guns and jiggles on landing and taxying. And that's it.

£1200 + £250 shipping and six hours of carpentry and metal work. If there was aileron force I think I could get on with it ok but rolling the plane, at any speed, feels so bogus I might as well be using a frikkin' game-pad. What a bunch of tosh.

Oh well, live and learn I guess. Lol.
 

 

 

Have you tried any other sims? DSC or MSFS, last reviews were really good.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Have you tried any other sims? DSC or MSFS, last reviews were really good.

Not yet. I have MSFS installed and I'll give it a go with that but I'm not hopeful, purely on the basis of how it tests out in its own software. The only constant-force test is pitch and while it's not "wow!" it's ok but there's no test for roll. The few shake-tests are ok too but again, nothing amazing. Given the size and price I was expecting something along the lines of the Fanatec stuff, the 8nm wheel could break a wrist if you're not careful.

I hestitate to call the thing "piss weak" but there you go, I thought it out loud. ?

[SYN_Mugue]

@Hetzer-JG51, Unfortunate that isn't working for you in your setup at the moment. (I guessing it's just not designed to have an extension...too much lever arm...)

 

I'm just curious if you'd try it, without the extension, and review the forces and it's operation. I've been looking at this thing for a long time, hoping this thing could be the answer to replacing my old G940 FFB stick with something better, but now you've got me worried... So if you have the time, I'd really like to hear what you have say about it.

 

Thanks,

M.

Edited April 13, 2023 by SYN_Mugue

[Guest]

I've just tried it in MSFS. The non DX option has more detailed readouts and says it's doing 5nm at full deflection (both pitch and roll are working) but I guess you're right about the 20cm extension I'm using, it reduces the feel of the force. I'll give it a go without the extension tomorrow.

So, I guess something is broken in IL2's FFB (and after doing some research earlier there are numerous reports over time about its FFB having various issues). Maybe it's a new/recent bug or nobody uses FFB anymore so the devs aren't bothering with it. Dunno. I'll go back to the Virpil base I guess and make this thing into an expensive shelf decoration.

[DragonDaddy]

I’ve been consistently using a MSFFB stick in IL2 for about five years with very positive results. Even with many updates, the FFB remains the same. I did make an adjustment to increase the force in the cfg file, which made a noticeable difference. 
 

I’m hoping you have some sort of breakthrough and get the results you want from your new stick. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, SYN_Mugue said:

@Hetzer-JG51, Unfortunate that isn't working for you in your setup at the moment. (I guessing it's just not designed to have an extension...too much lever arm...)

 

I'm just curious if you'd try it, without the extension, and review the forces and it's operation. I've been looking at this thing for a long time, hoping this thing could be the answer to replacing my old G940 FFB stick with something better, but now you've got me worried... So if you have the time, I'd really like to hear what you have say about it.

 

Thanks,

M.

With no extension the forces are decent (I held the stick at the base). That's in its own USB-Config app with all settings maxed.
Oh, there's a 'direction' dial in that so you can test "Constant Force" in any axis (360 degrees).

I tried the Me109, known for a heavier stick at speed, still nada on the ailerons. Weirdly, in the stick's non-DX mode, I could feel more force from the stick's native centering force in ROLL (obviously no FFB in that mode) than with FFB active. With FFB active there is more pitch force than in non-DX mode but roll becomes weaker. Go figure.

Pitch FFB is *reasonable*, guns shake, landing and taxying shakes but the limp-noodle roll is very disappointing.

In conclusion I do NOT recommend the Brunner for IL2. Even if it was a £50 stick I'd say the same.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Hetzer-JG51

[SYN_Mugue]

Hetzer,

Thanks for the effort, I really appreciate it. Not what I was hoping for, but it is what it is. (Though my wife won't be too upset I'm not spending THAT much on a stick.)   

 

Is there no ability to adjust the forces in the software somehow? I was imagining, that for that kind of cash you'd get to adjust all the parameters like my fancy direct drive racing wheel. 

 

This problem is very strange because, Il2 definitely outputs FFB for the roll axis(I mean the flight forces, I turn down "gunshake".) So, this issue seems like it's a bug in the manufacturers new DX mode. Perhaps there might be a software fix at some point...

 

Thanks again, and good luck.

M.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, SYN_Mugue said:

Hetzer,

Thanks for the effort, I really appreciate it. Not what I was hoping for, but it is what it is. (Though my wife won't be too upset I'm not spending THAT much on a stick.)   

 

Is there no ability to adjust the forces in the software somehow? I was imagining, that for that kind of cash you'd get to adjust all the parameters like my fancy direct drive racing wheel. 

 

This problem is very strange because, Il2 definitely outputs FFB for the roll axis(I mean the flight forces, I turn down "gunshake".) So, this issue seems like it's a bug in the manufacturers new DX mode. Perhaps there might be a software fix at some point...

 

Thanks again, and good luck.

M.

There are some sliders in the USB Config software and I did, of course, turn them all up to max. If the thing was worth the money the max would be the default. As it is, the default...lol, good luck feeling anything at that level.

[C6_lefuneste]

I'm using this (in a DIY version) and I had to reduce a bit the strenght of the "spring" settings...It was a bit too hard to not feel a bit handicapped in dogfight by the effort to put in the stick to move it. So it should not be an IL2 issue...

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, C6_lefuneste said:

I'm using this (in a DIY version) and I had to reduce a bit the strenght of the "spring" settings...It was a bit too hard to not feel a bit handicapped in dogfight by the effort to put in the stick to move it. So it should not be an IL2 issue...

Yeah, I wish. I'm afraid the Brunner is a grotesquely over-priced paperweight, given its under-performance.

[Guest]

It appears the stick worked properly when the Arduino mod was being used.

Quote

 

In my experience:

1) The Brunner Plugin for DCS adds no value IMHO, unlike the Brunner Plugin for Prepar3D which is really good - ground rumble, engine vibration, atmospheric effects. The Arduino add on fron Chuls is excellent for adding force feedback to modules that support it, but sadly does not add the ground rumble etc. Neverthesless it really is a game changer

2) FFB only really works with the warbirds and the Mig 15 as these do not use hydraulic or FBW. I have no idea about helicopters as dont really fly them - though just acquired the AH64 but it is a daunting learning experience. For hydraulic actuated planes such as the F-86, Mig-19 as well as the Warbirds you definitely get the grip moving when you adjust the trim. Strangely the F-14 FFB is rather well modelled and you also get airframe feedback. No idea about the F/A-18, F-16. Mirage 2000C as I use the Realsimulator FSSB R3 for FBW aircraft, but TBH I rarely fly them as they are so complex compared to the Warbirds and Mig-15. Fly the Spitfire with Brunner and you are aware how sensitive it is

3) Brunner and Arduino in IL-2 is superb, can not use anyother system now. The stiffening of ailerons with speed is really impressive, and the warnings for departure from controlled flight in combat essential - though I still spin in the FW-190

4) I use the Realsimulator F-16 SGRH CE on the Brunner base with a 10cm extension and have no issues in any game with mapping. Having said that I have the wonderpul Virpil CM3 throttle, CP1, CP2 and CP3 so have plenty of buttons without relying on the shift function. The Realsimulator grips allow for 8 different settings for each button if you can work that out. Personally I just use the game interface. The extension allows for more precision and gentler input changes

5) I have experienced overheating probably about 5 or so times in hundred's of hours of simulated flying. In the warbirds excessive input results in drag and rapid departure from controlled flight, so even in extended turning flights in DCS or IL-2 it is not the Brunner that is the limit but the aility to sustain the turn whilst maintaing energy. I use 65% setting for the FFB effects and as I say have experienced overheating on a handful of occaisons, and that was when I used a higher than 65% setting. In the summer (yes we have one in England) the Brunner base actuators get hotter as they dont reject heat that well to high ambient temperatures - I have seen node temperatures around 38C, but that tells me it is time to take a break before I lose the FFB effect.

To be honest, once you have experienced the Brunner I do not think that there is a way back to mechanical bases - though the realsimulator FSSB R3 is also impressive. The price is high, higher as I think you also need either a floor mount or a desktop mount such as the superb MonsterTech mount (I use the 1st geberation mount) so factor that in to your decision

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Hetzer-JG51

[Crocogator]

On 4/13/2023 at 6:59 PM, Hetzer-JG51 said:

there is absolutely zero aileron force and not much elevator either.

I recommend doing a fresh install of il2. This happened with the ffb pitch axis on my g940 and was fixed by that.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Crocogator said:

I recommend doing a fresh install of il2. This happened with the ffb pitch axis on my g940 and was fixed by that.

It was a bug in their software and they already released the fix (firmware update) and a new version of the config tool. Roll and pitch FFB works perfectly now, just a shame the FFB cuts out after 35 seconds of a full-load turn (motor protection) which renders the thing unfit for purpose in a combat flight sim (unless you're flying something that doesn't need to turn-fight).

I've gone back to the Virpil.