What am I doing wrong? Pico 4 image quality is abysmal.

[Panzerlang]

I had to check its resolution vs the G2 because I figured my expectations must have been deluded by getting that wrong. But no, they have the same resolution per eye.

My G2 on the RTX 3080ti produced an image ten times better than the Pico 4 on my RTX 4090. I've been through every setting I can find and nothing makes a difference. IL2 looks like there's a low-rez vaseline-filter smeared over a shimmering potato. Not to exaggerate too much.

I did try to install Open Composite on my 3080 rig, for testing, but since I tried that I can't even get IL2 to launch on it. Virtual Desktop puts my monitor into potato-rez...a whole host of other fkry going on with it too, god knows what did what to totally trash it.

I'm at a loss/ The game runs smooth as silk (rock-solid 71fps) but looks absolutely shite. SteamVR rez at 150% but I suspect that's not being applied to the actual game as it doesn't appear in the drop-down menu. If it's supposed to be applying to SteamVR Home, lol, because 20m away from the menu in the little room, it looks like vaseline over that too.

Is it simply that the WiFi connection (5ghz) has insufficient bandwidth? I tried it with the cable too (had to install Pico Streaming Assistant to get that), no difference.

Surely this thing should be able to match a G2, or at least come reasonably close?

[Guest]

Duh. They don't KISS, do they. Alt-tab out of a running game, THEN go into SteamVR settings and there's the game in the drop-down. FFS. Set the rez to 150%, huge improvement. Then to 200%, not sure if that made it even betterer but still getting a solid 71fps and it no longer looks like shit.

[Qcumber]

It can take some tuning. I have much lower specs than you and am getting good results. Try running it using VD godlike with steam VR set to 100% and the resolution should look great. 

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Qcumber said:

It can take some tuning. I have much lower specs than you and am getting good results. Try running it using VD godlike with steam VR set to 100% and the resolution should look great. 

VD was (and is) already on Ultra. At 100% SteamVR rez the image quality was pure potato.

Edit: It wasn't, it was on Ultra in Streaming Assistant. It took a while for me to realize they're separate apps and can't be run together. Duh.

There was a brief time when I was using Open Composite with my 3080ti that the image quality was close to monitor standard. Then there was an update from Steam and it was gone, never to be experienced again (despite hours of work trying).
And, after screwing up this PC installing OC, I'm not going to risk it on the new one. So many pieces of software trying to integrate, it's a recipe for disaster. The amount of bugs and glitches I've already suffered with Virtual Desktop, Streaming Assistant and SteamVR...the PC came close to finding out what it's really like to fly. There must be such a huge shortage of competent software writers out there that shoddy shite like this gets allowed out the doors. There are actual 'pages' in all the software that have no Back or Close buttons. I had half a SteamVR console I couldn't close on the IL2 loading screen that only went away when I'd got into the Quick Mission lobby.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Hetzer-JG51

[Qcumber]

2 hours ago, Hetzer-JG51 said:

VD was (and is) already on Ultra. At 100% SteamVR rez the image quality was pure potato.

That is surprising. On ultra and godlike the pixel count should be way higher than the native resolution of the Pico 4. It might be worth getting help on the VD discord channel. 

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

you have to use open composite for VD and pico4 to work with OpenXR toolkit....

 

[Qcumber]

Open composite needs to be installed as "per game" for the Pico 4. When I try this the game runs and I can use openxr toolkit, but when I try to load a mission it crashes. 

[Guest]

I found this, I'll try it next:

"

So, the trick to getting the Pico Streaming Assistant to work the best:

• Set the SteamVR render resolution to "Auto". Higher resolutions will have a limited effect, since increasing the resolution here won't increase the resolution of the encoding stream. DenTechs from the Virtual Desktop Discord recommends using "Custom 100%" though, which I haven't tested myself."
   

  
  
  I'm using Streaming Assistant now, rather than Virtual Desktop. Which is the only way those rez settings can be accessed. I don't see "Godlike" (?), only Smooth, SD, HD and Ultra.
  
  Yet another glitch after I enabled Interpolation and the beta Sharpening, the game's FPS became locked to 60fps. It's one thing after another with this Pico, an endless cascade of random bugs, glitches, freezes and assorted chickenshit frustration. With SteamVR set at 150% resolution the image quality is ok and at a solid 71fps but I know from the G2 it can be a lot better. And that was with a 3080ti (G2). This Pico has a 4090. Sure, best fps on the G2 was 45fps but still...

[Guest]

After much video-watching I learned about the VD settings panel (who knew it was on the left-controller menu button, sheesh).

All set up per a video tutorial and I'm getting a solid 60fps in Godlike mode, SpaceWarp off, with the game maxed out (apart from the bits that offer little to zero benefit).
There's a very tiny amount of occasional stutter but nothing more than can be imagined as in-cockpit vibration/head-shake.

The alternative Pico Streaming Assistant, very sketchy software unfortunately. With VD properly set up the game also runs well on my slower rig.

For some reason the VD performance panel now shows the runtime as OpenVR instead of SteamVR. No idea why but the game runs just as well in both.

Sorted. Thanks for all the input guys.

[firdimigdi]

1 hour ago, Hetzer-JG51 said:

the VD performance panel now shows the runtime as OpenVR instead of SteamVR

 

Because OpenVR is what SteamVR uses - not to be confused with OpenXR.

[Russkly]

@Hetzer-JG51 You may recall seeing that my reverb G2 died one month after warranty expiry, and HP want £375 to replace it.

 

Given that HP and Microsoft are exiting VR/WMR, I am very reluctant to throw an additional £375 at HP, especially as the replacement HMD only comes with a 90-day warranty, so I'm wondering what your overall take on the Pico 4 is for Il2 GB/FC?

 

I have seen some very complimentary videos on YT, but one very good one I saw for MSFS stated that you need a 4090 to really get the best out of the Pico 4 for flight sims, and I 'only' have a 3080ti (and that will not change anytime soon with 4090s retailing at ~£1,500 in the UK).

 

So, with you having tried both HMDs and you also having one rig with a 3080ti, would you opt for the Pico 4 or chuck more money at a replacement Reverb?

 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Russkly said:

@Hetzer-JG51 You may recall seeing that my reverb G2 died one month after warranty expiry, and HP want £375 to replace it.

 

Given that HP and Microsoft are exiting VR/WMR, I am very reluctant to throw an additional £375 at HP, especially as the replacement HMD only comes with a 90-day warranty, so I'm wondering what your overall take on the Pico 4 is for Il2 GB/FC?

 

I have seen some very complimentary videos on YT, but one very good one I saw for MSFS stated that you need a 4090 to really get the best out of the Pico 4 for flight sims, and I 'only' have a 3080ti (and that will not change anytime soon with 4090s retailing at ~£1,500 in the UK).

 

So, with you having tried both HMDs and you also having one rig with a 3080ti, would you opt for the Pico 4 or chuck more money at a replacement Reverb?

 

 

I guess the answer to that is what fps can you tolerate? I've been fine with 45 but I'm lucky in that dept. If you're the same I'd say Pico4, it's essentially a very much improved G2 and MSFS has been much improved (optimized) since I ran it on the G2. OpenXR gives it a boost too.

With BoX you'll have no problems, I was maintaining around 70fps (some dips into the 50s) and it was smooth (RTX3080ti). Not as smooth as the 4090 but perfectly playable. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Hetzer-JG51

[Russkly]

2 hours ago, Hetzer-JG51 said:

I guess the answer to that is what fps can you tolerate? I've been fine with 45 but I'm lucky in that dept. If you're the same I'd say Pico4, it's essentially a very much improved G2 and MSFS has been much improved (optimized) since I ran it on the G2. OpenXR gives it a boost too.

With BoX you'll have no problems, I was maintaining around 70fps (some dips into the 50s) and it was smooth (RTX3080ti). Not as smooth as the 4090 but perfectly playable. 

 

Thanks, Hetzer. Very helpful.

 

Sounds like the Pico 4 is indeed the way to go then for Il2, MSFS and CloD (when it comes out in VR).

 

Especially so, as it is now discounted to £335 in the UK, which seems like a great deal (and less than HP are charging me for a replacement Reverb G2!).

 

Two further questions, if I may, please:

 

1.0  Are you running the Pico wireless, or wired?

       Either way, how did you set it up and what additional HW & SW (if any) did you need?

       I ask, because I've read here about people buying dedicated routers and stuff plus various suggestions about Virtual Desktop and/or Pico's own                streaming app, but I'd rather just get a USB A to C cable and use it tethered, if that works.

2.0  Stupid question, but how do you run Il2 on the Pico using OpenXR, as I thought Pico uses SteamVR, i.e. OpenVR?

       I was using OpenXR Toolkit for Il2 with the reverb, and it was an improvement over SteamVR.

       

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Russkly

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Russkly said:

1.0  Are you running the Pico wireless, or wired?

       Either way, how did you set it up and what additional HW & SW (if any) did you need?

       I ask, because I've read here about people buying dedicated routers and stuff plus various suggestions about Virtual Desktop and/or Pico's own                streaming app, but I'd rather just get a USB A to C cable and use it tethered, if that works.

2.0  Stupid question, but how do you run Il2 on the Pico using OpenXR, as I thought Pico uses SteamVR, i.e. OpenVR?

       I was using OpenXR Toolkit for Il2 with the reverb, and it was an improvement over SteamVR.

       

 

 

I have it connected directly to the router with a CAT cable:

It didn't work the first time I tried it but on a later attempt it did, no idea why it didn't the first time.

I also have it plugged into a phone-charger to the mains. I know it'll eventually shag the battery but as I'll never be using it in stand-alone mode, NFG. This is done via the same connector-box that connects my CAT cable:
Amazon.co.jp: USB C Hub, 5 in 1, Lemorele Wired LAN 1000 Mbps, 100WPD Charging, HDMI Converter Hub, USB 3.0 x 2, 4K@30Hz, HDMI, 4K Resolution, High Speed Data Transmission, RJ45, MacBook Pro 2019, iPad Pro 2020, XPS13ChromeBook and More USBC Multi-Port Adapter : Computers

I don't run OpenXR, I think my api is an old Open Composite one and it won't work. But I get 100% smooth running with no lower than 87fps (mostly 89/90fps) with SteamVR via Virtual Desktop. VD is set to 'Godlike' and the SteamVR slider is at 250%. I tried Pico's own Streaming Assistant but it caps the rez and the IQ is shit.

If you have any probs when you get to the point of firing everything up, post here.

[Qcumber]

I am getting really good results on IL-2 now. I use WiFi through a £40 WiFi 6 router and virtual desktop. It has taken a while to get the settings right but I now run on mainly high settings, high on VD and I get 72 FPS most situations without reprojection. It is very smooth and no ghosting or lag. I tried the usb-ethernet method but I get increased decoding latency for some reason and sometimes the bit rate is limited to about 45. I am using a usb 3 hub with a gigabyte ethernet port and usb3 cables and cat 8 ethernet. I'm not sure what the issue is. 

[Russkly]

Gosh!  That's a lot of cables and connectors!

 

How does the Pico work if just using a USB-A to USB-C cable direct from the PC to the HMD?

 

How does it perform if using it 100% wirelessly (which would obviously be my preference)?!

 

My PC is plugged directly into the router using an ethernet cable, and the wireless is good (I think).

 

The router very close to my PC (and therefore to my HMD), so I could in theory plug an ethernet cable into the HMD directly from the router, if that's a thing.

 

I have a 500Mbps broadband connection, and according to Speedtest, my phone, which also sits on my desk, gets 440Mbps download and 51 upload via wifi.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Russkly

[jollyjack]

As with audio cabling and signals, the lowest quality cable in the lot is the limiting factor in all transmissions.

Just one lower quality cable or a lousy connector can really affect your signals.

Edited June 3, 2023 by jollyjack

[Russkly]

4 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

As with audio cabling and signals, the lowest quality cable in the lot is the limiting factor in all transmissions.

Just one lower quality cable or a lousy connector can really affect your signals.

 

So what are you saying then, jollyjack, in terms of the best way to connect a Pico 4 to a PC for flight sims?

 

Hetzer's solution looks complicated.

 

Ideally I'd like to just go wireless, if that works.

 

There's so much (sometimes conflicting) info out in the ether about how to set up the Pico 4 for PC VR with all sorts of connectors, cables, routers, Streaming Assistant, Virtual Desktop, etc. that it's a bit overwhelming.

[jollyjack]

WiFi is often a wild horse, and the strength of signal is quite differing between hardware, even if specs are similar on paper.

f.i. my Fritzbox router seems to radiate much better than the Chinese my provider delivered.

 

Maybe hardwire your setup first, and when working OK try inserting wireless where needed only? 

Also with WiFi you probably can adjust to, or select, a less used channel. There are mobile-phone apps to check for available channels.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Russkly said:

 

So what are you saying then, jollyjack, in terms of the best way to connect a Pico 4 to a PC for flight sims?

 

Hetzer's solution looks complicated.

 

Ideally I'd like to just go wireless, if that works.

 

There's so much (sometimes conflicting) info out in the ether about how to set up the Pico 4 for PC VR with all sorts of connectors, cables, routers, Streaming Assistant, Virtual Desktop, etc. that it's a bit overwhelming.

I found the wifi option laggy and that's with a top-spec router and 100mbits internet.

[jollyjack]

Both Bluetooth and WiFi are often too laggy. With 25fps frames as used for movies a one frame offset is already quite noticeable.

[Russkly]

2 hours ago, Hetzer-JG51 said:

I found the wifi option laggy and that's with a top-spec router and 100mbits internet.

 

OK, thanks again, Hetzer.

 

I might try wireless first, then with USB-A to USB-C, and then, if none of that works, I'll try your cable-a-rama.

2 hours ago, jollyjack said:

WiFi is often a wild horse, and the strength of signal is quite differing between hardware, even if specs are similar on paper.

f.i. my Fritzbox router seems to radiate much better than the Chinese my provider delivered.

 

Maybe hardwire your setup first, and when working OK try inserting wireless where needed only? 

Also with WiFi you probably can adjust to, or select, a less used channel. There are mobile-phone apps to check for available channels.

 

When you say, "Maybe hardwire your setup first", do you mean via  USB-A to USB-C or do you mean using Hetzer's configuration above?

 

I'd love for it to work without having to go down Hetzer's more-complicated route.

[jollyjack]

Yes, and try keeping things as simple as possible.

 

Also i found that many USB expansion cards use only 1 controller. Might clog up data with many connctions going throught the same chip.

I bought a 4 controller Sonnet PCIe card once for a Video editing system. But they're quite expensive.

Edited June 3, 2023 by jollyjack

[Russkly]

Thanks, all.

 

It's a minefield at present, this VR thing; or at least a labyrinth.

 

Will try the Pico 4 from Amazon UK and return if I can't get it work well with my 3080ti, and then suck it up on HP's demand for £375 for a replacement Reverb G2.

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

 

 

upper post is still a very nice basic guide for pico4 ^^

 

if you have direct visibility between router and headset  your wireless experience will work well with most dedicated wifi5 routers (only pico4 and PC connected to router)

 

openxr toolkit is a must imho (if only to control the colors)

[=LD=Bulldog*]

Hey Hetzer,

 

I use my Pico 4 wirelessly and power the headset via the mains by the USB C cable. I ditched SA and opted for VD, which costs around £15. I then boot up VD on the desktop, power up the Pico and select VD. I then click on the games tab and select IL-2. Seems to work just fine. Also, you can improve the graphics in the settings tab I think to "god-like mode" and more. Seems to be better than SA.

 

Also, just one light cable in terms of cable management. Got a 3M cable so I can use Half-Life: Alyx, etc.

 

As for MSFS 2020, it still seems to be an utter pig and might just stick to Track IR even with a high-end rig.

 

Cheers!

 

Bulldog

[III/JG52_Supongo]

On 3/6/2023 at 10:13, Qcumber said:

Ahora estoy obteniendo muy buenos resultados con IL-2. Utilizo WiFi a través de un enrutador WiFi 6 de £ 40 y un escritorio virtual. Me ha tomado un tiempo lograr la configuración correcta, pero ahora uso principalmente configuraciones altas, VD alto y obtengo 72 FPS en la mayoría de las situaciones sin reproyección. Es muy fluido y sin imágenes fantasma ni retrasos. Probé el método USB-Ethernet pero por alguna razón obtengo una mayor latencia de decodificación y, a veces, la velocidad de bits se limita a aproximadamente 45. Estoy usando un concentrador USB 3 con un puerto Ethernet de gigabytes y cables USB3 y Ethernet Cat 8. No estoy seguro de cuál es el problema. 

Hello.

 

Can you share your VD, SteamVR and IL2 graphics setup?

 

Thanks

[Qcumber]

On 10/27/2023 at 11:44 AM, III/JG52_Supongo said:

Hello.

 

Can you share your VD, SteamVR and IL2 graphics setup?

 

Thanks

VD I have been using HEVC 10 bit at 150 Mbps, Godlike and 72 Hz. Steam VR at 100% scaling. Graphics set to ultra/high. I can get a steady 72 fps in most situations with these settings