Can autopilot change altitude for you?

[Ledg]

I noticed some autopilot settings that seem to indicate that there is an autopilot you can turn on that will control pitch for altitude changes. Handy when you’re climbing to 20,000 feet and you prefer not to use the AI autopilot. 
 

I couldn’t seem to get it working in the P51. Is it only available in some planes?

 

Thanks, I couldn’t find any info in the manual.

[AndyJWest]

Those settings are for the Arado 234 only, as the real aircraft has an autopilot with such functions..

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Those settings are for the Arado 234 only, as the real aircraft has an autopilot with such functions..

 

And the C-47 ?

[AndyJWest]

37 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

And the C-47 ?

 

Oops. Right you are. 

[Yogiflight]

There should also be the possibility to preset a direction, the autopilot turns your aircraft to, for the Ju 88s, He 111s, Bf 110s and the Me 410. The German 'Kurssteuerung' was able to do that.

And BTW, the turning left and right with activated level autopilot in the 110s and the 410 is done very bad in game. It should be as smooth as in the 88s and 111s.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

6 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

And BTW, the turning left and right with activated level autopilot in the 110s and the 410 is done very bad in game. It should be as smooth as in the 88s and 111s.

Are you sure about that? The little information I found about the Kurssteuerung indicates that it could only control the rudder, as in game. It seems natural the aircraft would skid.

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

There should also be the possibility to preset a direction, the autopilot turns your aircraft to, for the Ju 88s, He 111s, Bf 110s and the Me 410. The German 'Kurssteuerung' was able to do that.

 

The Me 410 has that. ?

[jollyjack]

17 hours ago, Ledg said:

I noticed some autopilot settings that seem to indicate that there is an autopilot you can turn on that will control pitch for altitude changes. Handy when you’re climbing to 20,000 feet and you prefer not to use the AI autopilot. 
 

I couldn’t seem to get it working in the P51. Is it only available in some planes?

 

Thanks, I couldn’t find any info in the manual.

 

Curious, never knew that ... how?

[LukeFF]

11 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

Curious, never knew that ... how?

 

The commands are right there in the list of keybindings inside the game, in the same section as the level autopilot ones

[Ledg]

Any idea if or how it works?

[LukeFF]

3 minutes ago, Ledg said:

Any idea if or how it works?

 

You engage the autopilot system (not the level autopilot) and set the pitch angle with the appropriate commands. With the Ar 234 it's, as I recall, a two-step process: engage the autopilot master and then the pitch channel. Then you can adjust the pitch as needed. With the C-47 it's engaging the autopilot master and then adjusting pitch. 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

You engage the autopilot system (not the level autopilot) and set the pitch angle with the appropriate commands. With the Ar 234 it's, as I recall, a two-step process: engage the autopilot master and then the pitch channel. Then you can adjust the pitch as needed. With the C-47 it's engaging the autopilot master and then adjusting pitch. 

I can attest that the autopilot works for all of the Ar-234, Me-410 and C-47

 

I wonder why the autopilots, both the C-47 and the Arado one, are pitch based? It seems to me that if you can measure the gyroscopic pitch and use that as an input to the autopilot feedback loop, you should be able to measure the deflection of the variometer instead, to keep it at a steady 0m/s vertical speed, rather than mess around with pitch which will vary your rate of climb depending on speed, payload and the Gods may know what else.

 

@LukeFF, you seem like someone who would happen to know the answer to this.

[AndyJWest]

31 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I wonder why the autopilots, both the C-47 and the Arado one, are pitch based? It seems to me that if you can measure the gyroscopic pitch and use that as an input to the autopilot feedback loop, you should be able to measure the deflection of the variometer instead, to keep it at a steady 0m/s vertical speed, rather than mess around with pitch which will vary your rate of climb depending on speed, payload and the Gods may know what else.

 

 

I suspect it may be because altimeters and variometers lag to some extent, and trying to use them with 1930's-era autopilots wasn't practical - you could end up with a lot of oscillation. The technology of the time was fairly crude, and was seen as a means of 'pilot assistance' rather than being intended to take over control entirely. It isn't that hard to adjust pitch and/or throttle settings to get close enough to level flight to be useful.

[Yogiflight]

7 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

The Me 410 has that. ?

 

4 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I can attest that the autopilot works for all of the Ar-234, Me-410 and C-47

I can't find a way to preset a direction, the autopilot then turns the aircraft to.

 

As I understand the writing 'Bei eingedrücktem Knopf Kurssteuerung ausgekuppelt' (with pressed button autopilot disengaged), the pilot pressed the button on the device to disengage the autopilot, turned the upper scale with the knob to the direction he wanted to head for, and engaged the autopilot again by unpressing the button. And then the autopilot turned the aircraft to the right direction. But I don't find a way to turn the upper scale to the direction I want to head for.

 

 

 

[LukeFF]

10 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

I can't find a way to preset a direction, the autopilot then turns the aircraft to.

 

 

Those are the ones needed for the Me 410's course steering autopilot. For the Ar 234, you have to take the extra step of engaging each separate channel after turning on the Autopilot master switch.

[Yogiflight]

23 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Those are the ones needed for the Me 410's course steering autopilot.

Did you ever try it? This was, what I had tried to use, but the 410 starts heavily banking about 45° from side to side. It turns towards the preset direction, but then rolls left, right, left, right, always around the direction I set and I have to pull the stick quite hard so it doesn't dive down to the ground. In my eyes absolutely unusable.

 

EDIT: I just tried it with countering the banking with the ailerons and pulling at the stick. But the way it works, I don't see a lot of use in the system. I would never use it, instead turn manually to the new heading and make the last small corrections the way I used to do them when flying the Ju 88 or the He 111, by using the switch for turning left/right, when in level pilot.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Yogiflight

[AEthelraedUnraed]

13 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Did you ever try it? This was, what I had tried to use, but the 410 starts heavily banking about 45° from side to side. It turns towards the preset direction, but then rolls left, right, left, right, always around the direction I set and I have to pull the stick quite hard so it doesn't dive down to the ground. In my eyes absolutely unusable.

 

EDIT: I just tried it with countering the banking with the ailerons and pulling at the stick. But the way it works, I don't see a lot of use in the system. I would never use it, instead turn manually to the new heading and make the last small corrections the way I used to do them when flying the Ju 88 or the He 111, by using the switch for turning left/right, when in level pilot.

I think it was only meant for small corrections, i.e. keeping course on a long flight rather than setting a new one. The way it works combined with the state of 1940s control systems engineering make the behaviour you describe very plausible.

 

On 4/7/2023 at 9:28 PM, AndyJWest said:

I suspect it may be because altimeters and variometers lag to some extent, and trying to use them with 1930's-era autopilots wasn't practical - you could end up with a lot of oscillation. The technology of the time was fairly crude, and was seen as a means of 'pilot assistance' rather than being intended to take over control entirely. It isn't that hard to adjust pitch and/or throttle settings to get close enough to level flight to be useful.

Sounds very plausible. I hadn't thought of the lag.

Edited April 9, 2023 by AEthelraedUnraed

[JG4_Moltke1871]

On 4/7/2023 at 9:58 AM, Yogiflight said:

There should also be the possibility to preset a direction, the autopilot turns your aircraft to, for the Ju 88s, He 111s, Bf 110s and the Me 410. The German 'Kurssteuerung' was able to do that.

And BTW, the turning left and right with activated level autopilot in the 110s and the 410 is done very bad in game. It should be as smooth as in the 88s and 111s.

The autopilot in in H111, Ju88 and Bf110 isn’t a technical like the moving buttons and lights promise that move when you activate it. It’s a „fake“ autopilot in fact controlled by your AI avatar pilot. With this „autopilot“ you get the axis gifted that stabilise your plane and makes the turning smooth?The „Kurssteuerung“ in real was an one axis autopilot means hold the Kurs ahead that you set. There was only small corrections to the left or right possible, too much and your plane will tip over. The AI autopilot isn’t realistic and you can activate it it any plane that never had an autopilot in real, like most fighters or all the flying circus planes. But maybe it’s necessary because fly a bomber alone isn’t realistic too, the crew had a lot of teamwork to do with navigation, engine management, fly, bomb dropping and defending.

 

The Kurssteuerung in the Me410 works simplified (The Pilot avatar set automatically your actual course), I prefer this autopilot for more a realistic experience.

 

The Ar234 was the first plane offers an autopilot allows you to control all three axis: 

 

Add the Kurssteuerung to the planes had it in real like Ju88, Bf110 and He111 is a feature I waiting for since a long time. I assume the A20 had a similar system?

I can remember somewhere in the forum there was a talk about implement it for the planes had it in real. @LukeFF, do you know there is still work on it?

 

By the way:

In Cliffs of Dover the Kurssteuerung is completely simulated, you have to set the course manually and to to all the grips that necessary by yourself. With even full control over the stopwatch ?

Here an old vid about in German ?

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by JG4_Moltke1871

[BMA_FlyingShark]

8 hours ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

In Cliffs of Dover the Kurssteuerung is completely simulated, you have to set the course manually and to to all the grips that necessary by yourself.

I've been hoping since day 1 they'd implement this in BoX series too but I'm afraid it's one of those "not gonna happen" things.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[LukeFF]

10 hours ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

@LukeFF, do you know there is still work on it?

 

No, I've not heard anything more about it. If I had to guess, it's one of those "we'd like to add it when we have the time to" sorts of things.

 

10 hours ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

I assume the A20 had a similar system?

 

Maybe in the later models, but I've never seen anything about the B model having an autopilot system.

 

EDIT: this is an image from an A-20G. That red button on the yoke likely is an autopilot disconnect button: