Flying Circus Ai too bad!

[kodam]

I watched the Ai aircrafts fight while playing pilot career mode and scripted campaign.

Ai aircraft did not attempt to occupy the enemy's 6 o'clock during the combat. They just turn randomly, and when the enemy comes into the line of fire, they fire for a moment and then just pass away. Even when they were turning randomly and luckily got the enemy's 6 o'clock perfectly, they just fired nearby and then immediatley turned and fly away. I've seen this stupid battles of Ai countless times. AIs do not actively fight or run away. They just turn randomly and only shoot briefly when they accidentally come into the line of fire and then turn again.

 

I saw the Airco DH.4 flying at the same speed under the belly of the Albatross. At this point, the observer had the perfect shooting moment to hit the belly of the albatross, but he only shot into the air. Sometimes he luckily hit a few of bullets but I think it was real luck. And after a while, the Airco DH.4 turning again and just pass away like the other AI. I bet Airco DH.4 didn't intend to shoot down Albatross, it just happened by accident. The funny thing is that the albatross didn't any react this happening!!!! Albatross was just flying straight without any thinking.

 

As a result, I was able to into the middle of the enemy formation and shoot down 9 enemy planes without any damage. Even with other enemy squadrons engaged in the fight, I could just fire at the bandit without any threat, and when I ran out of bullets, I could just fly back to base. At this point, the bandits don't even try to stop me!!! This is absolutely ridiculous.

 

I am most disappointed with Ai's behavior, they attacked the balloons.

When the AIs attack the balloons, instead of shooting at the balloons, they just pour machine guns at the air and just pass away. In this time, they collide into the ropes that hold the balloons or even crash into the ground. Nevertheless I kept seeing if the Ai could destroy the balloon, but they only repeatedly tried meaningless attacks and crashed after being hit by AA fire. They cannot complete their mission without player intervention.

 

This stupid act of Ai makes me never feel like I'm on the battlefield of World War I. Currently Ai's behavior not feel at all that people are flying. They don't try to fight, They don't try to run away, They don't try to survive, They don't try to accomplish mission! They just fly to waypoint and just exist as a background until the player solves everything.

 

As I really enjoyed Rise of Flight, IL-2 FC is so disappointing right now. I'm not talking about the details of the aircraft or the feeling of flying. These are wonderfully made, as was the case with Rise of Flight.

 

What I hope is that at least Ai will show their willingness to fight.

When I palying Rise of Flight I felt hopeless and tried to survive somehow when I saw the other enemy squadrons intervening during a combat. But When I playing Fying circus I can't feel any threat during the battle. Even if I'm in the middle of an enemy formation, I don't need to check my back. Because they don't want to kill me!!!!

 

I know it will not be easy to develop Ai, but I ask you to work on modifying Ai behavior first.

[BBAS_Tiki_Joe]

I agree, it is laughably easy to fight the AI in FC. 7-12 kills every mission I run into action, I have not seen anything alluding to an overhaul by the devs, I was really hoping for a major update with the new career mode release. I've seen a few tiny AI enhancements over the last couple of years in updates but to be honest, I don't think we are going to get much improvement on that end. I don't know if it's an engine limitation or just a lack of interest. I visit these forums regularly and there doesn't seem to be much outcry about the FC AI, so maybe I'm just really good at flying the kites ?, (I'm Not) or the majority only fly MP in FC and don't care about AI.

[cmbishop]

I agree !
The IA controlled planes seem acting like automats. They don’t really attack you and stay very passive. Could it be possible to make the IA more reactive and agressive ?

[ST_Catchov]

If the majority of FC players are SP then the devs really need to move on improving the AI. Posts on AI issues are mounting quickly everywhere since the recent release of the FC pilot career so communication from the devs about some kind of plan and path forward would be desirable.

[Rambler_01Jenato]

It is simply ridiculous how the AI planes act! I have built up quite some experience in the last decade handling planes in Rise Off Flight and the AI planes were certainly more aggressive than what I have noticed the last few days in Flying Circus. During an escort flight with an Albatros D.Va, I managed to shoot down seven, yes... seven enemy planes. Three Sopwith Triplanes acted as if they were flown by real rookies. When shooting at the tail end Charly and hitting the pilot mortally, the other two kept on flying as nothing was happening at all! The tail gunner of a Bristol Fighter did not even fire in my direction, though there were no other German AI planes in my vicinity. This is not good at all! I am strongly under the impression the launch of Flying circus 2 was a hasty and sloppy job. After only a few missions I also noticed much was very wrong with the award system too. Though I managed to acquire the untrustworthy score of twelve shot down enemy planes in only two missions, just because of the airy attitude of the AI pilots, I was not even granted the simple Iron Cross Second Class as a German pilot.

Attacking vehicles in Rise of Flight was a difficult job because they moved. This is not the case in Flying Circus. They simply stop, remain in place and are literally are acting as sitting ducks.

Though Flying Circus is graphically very good and certainly has a lot of potential, far too many things are not working well. I sincerely hope something will be done about it. If not… Flying Circus won’t become as popular as Rise of Flight was, and maybe even still is?

[BBAS_Tiki_Joe]

They can be alright when on the defensive if they have the ACE setting, but are absolutely incapable of giving chase and instead just shoot off pop shots and then flutter away nonsensically in random directions. I have a feeling they are using the same AI logic as the ww2 planes which does not transfer well to ww1. Just a complete shot in the dark though.

Edited April 4, 2023 by BBAS_Tiki_Joe
left something out.

[Rambler_01Jenato]

I totally agree! As a matter of fact I am a little bit disappointed in the sim as a whole... 

I do not like to fly server missions. The tactical discrepancies because of the ability to communicate in a non-historical manner with fellow players makes most of the combat scenes too “Hollywoodian”. That is why I liked ROF so much in career mode. Something must be done about the sloppy and far from historical AI logic. 

[Patricks]

Supposedly the latest patch addressed "some" of the AI issues, is it any better?

[jollyjack]

Besides is RoF any better regarding Ai?

[BBAS_Tiki_Joe]

1 hour ago, Patricks said:

Supposedly the latest patch addressed "some" of the AI issues, is it any better?

 

Gonna check it out later today! Good to see that AI is still something they are working on.

[Harry85]

Hello all

 

Just wanted to give my quick feedback on the new update. This is my first post on this forum. The AI is extremely dim. As others have written, I manage to shoot down 7 or more enemies in a single career mission. My half squadron either crashes or collides with their comrades in mid-air. This is not during a fight but already on the flight to the target point. As much as I love the scenario and I appreciate the flight simulation because of all the other points, the AI behavior will sooner or later lead to the downfall of IL2 and its spin-offs.

 

To the devs: the highest priority should be the AI in the future. Just my 2 Schilling.

 

Wish everyone a safe flight and "Play it fair - its the code of the air".

 

[kodam]

21 hours ago, Patricks said:

Supposedly the latest patch addressed "some" of the AI issues, is it any better?

 

Now Ai's trying to occupy the enemy's 6 o'clock, but it's still bad. If Ai occupies the enemy's 6 o'clock, Ai begins to turn left and right behind the enemy. Even enemy plane is flying in a straight line without any response, the attacking Ai cannot even aim properly because it keeps turning left and right. And as Ai keeps turning left and right, the distance from the enemy gets farther away, so the combat returns to the starting point. As a result, Ai battles still turn randomly, shooting only when the enemy aircraft enters the line of fire and then turning again forever.

 

And also if squadron attacked by enemy, while on a balloon attack mission, they do not help their companions and just concentrate on balloon.

21 hours ago, jollyjack said:

Besides is RoF any better regarding Ai?

RoF's Ai is not a good level, but it's incredibly good compared to the flying circus' Ai.

 

I think Wings over Flanders field's Ai is the best. Their Ai actively tries to fight, but actively avoids the combat when situation is disadvantageous. And if the bandit runs away from battle, they will actively pursue it. Of course, it is Ai, so there is a limit to its behavior, but it is very good compared to other games.

[ST_Catchov]

10 hours ago, Harry85 said:

the AI behavior will sooner or later lead to the downfall of IL2 and its spin-offs.

 

To the devs: the highest priority should be the AI in the future.

 

As a first post you make a point that many are thinking. The devs really need to get a team together to focus exclusively on the AI and not on the odd band-aid solutions.

[Lederhosen]

Staying with ROF (Modded)

Will wait till this is sorted and on sale.

 

Flew two Career missions just to make sure. Both times I had 5-7 DVa's bump into Spads attacking a balloon.

And.... they just ignored each other. Non were interested in fighting. Haven't flown in yrs but able to drop AI aircraft quite easily.

No, ROF is better.

[Dusty926]

I didn't think the FC was particularly bad before, the main issue was that many of them just didn't turn nearly as hard as they reasonably should be able to pull, which is kind of an issue overall.

However, the last two patches have introduced an absolutely absurd wobble in the AI that leads to 30+ minute engagements where nobody shoots anybody down, because once they get on someone's tail, they just start wobbling like they're going evasive despite being in the prime position to just pull the trigger and shoot.

At this point, I'm not really looking for wider variety in the AI even, or any particularly strong dynamics. I just want to be SCARED of a formation of baddies when I see them. Being able to put every kite in the game into lethargic turns while the guys behind you wobble in figure-8s makes the campaign lack any sense of dread, fear or tension. 
Considering the next 6-12 months seem like strong FC hours for the sim, I'm desperately hoping that it's something they give a lot more attention to soon.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Dusty926

[CB77Don246]

So sorry to have to say this but I no longer fly FC or any of the other Great Battles because of the AI you can see I have purchased most of the content on offer and will not purchase any more SORRY.

I do have many sims combat or other on my PC including Red Baron 3D and the AI in that is much better in RB than GB or FC what happened to progress, all that gistens is not gold.

[giftgruen]

On 4/6/2023 at 1:40 PM, Harry85 said:

.... As much as I love the scenario and I appreciate the flight simulation because of all the other points, the AI behavior will sooner or later lead to the downfall of IL2 and its spin-offs.

 

To the devs: the highest priority should be the AI in the future. Just my 2 Schilling.

 

You are absolutely right.

 

I wrote a quite enthusiastic Review for IL2 Flyinf Circus at Steam.

This is because I love the look and feel of the Sim in VR. Graphics and so on are really beautiful.

 

After now flying some careers/missions I still enjoy but it's really getting boring because it's in fact not a fighter sim but some sitting duck pew-pew game.

The AI pilots are all completely and identically stupid, they never vary their tactics, they never take advantage of a specific planes abilitys, they just

to "random" scriped (?) manoevers without any purpose or target.

 

Hey. There is no mystical wonder AI needed!

Take a look at the AI for WOFF for example. Also has some flaws - but in summary is way way more fun to fight against. And this is an old low budget game, no ?

To be honest - I'm really NOT 100% sure if the Red Baron 1 AI was that very very stupid. I remember I had fun .-) 

 

Now I really struggle between having this wonderful VR experience ( it is ! ) or real fighter fun with WOFF or something else ( non WW1 then, yes )

 

 

[Patricks]

14 minutes ago, giftgruen said:

 

You are absolutely right.

 

I wrote a quite enthusiastic Review for IL2 Flyinf Circus at Steam.

This is because I love the look and feel of the Sim in VR. Graphics and so on are really beautiful.

 

After now flying some careers/missions I still enjoy but it's really getting boring because it's in fact not a fighter sim but some sitting duck pew-pew game.

The AI pilots are all completely and identically stupid, they never vary their tactics, they never take advantage of a specific planes abilitys, they just

to "random" scriped (?) manoevers without any purpose or target.

 

Hey. There is no mystical wonder AI needed!

Take a look at the AI for WOFF for example. Also has some flaws - but in summary is way way more fun to fight against. And this is an old low budget game, no ?

To be honest - I'm really NOT 100% sure if the Red Baron 1 AI was that very very stupid. I remember I had fun .-) 

 

Now I really struggle between having this wonderful VR experience ( it is ! ) or real fighter fun with WOFF or something else ( non WW1 then, yes )

 

 

 

Which I really don't understand as the WWII AI is, at times, quite challenging. Just don't fight them in the clouds..... 

[giftgruen]

Well, an AI that needs clouds to fight well - means that the AI is cheating ( having view ) instead of beeing good. No ?

 

The FC AI pilots do it all wrong. They neither pull Gs in circles, they don't give speed in longer dives, they dont climb away. Nothing.

They just fly around 'somehow' and wait to be shot down.  Could be okay if one squadron member acts like this ( the rookie )

as long as the others fight in another way. WOFF had this concept of "rookie/veteran/ace" AI pilots if I remember correctly. 

 

Funny enough, the 2seaters have better pilots, so it's way easier to stay at the Six of a Camel compared to at a Bristol Fighter.

Since these in addition have a rear gunner, one Bristol is more dangerous than three Camels. Hmmmmm ....

 

A real danger is the autopilot. Means that you have quite a good chance to collide with a team mate is not all the pack flying i a straight line to some waypoint .... 

Edited April 24, 2023 by giftgruen

[Patricks]

11 hours ago, giftgruen said:

Well, an AI that needs clouds to fight well - means that the AI is cheating ( having view ) instead of beeing good. No ?

 

 

 

Yes, the AI can "see" in 0 visibility so I have removed clouds\bad weather when flying single player, which is a shame...

[LukeFF]

10 hours ago, Patricks said:

Yes, the AI can "see" in 0 visibility so I have removed clouds\bad weather when flying single player, which is a shame...

 

Got a track file?

[Patricks]

On 4/25/2023 at 7:22 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Got a track file?

 

No, sorry. The last time I used the full weather was a while back in a Hurricane (or Spit, been a while) career mission across the channel and over the French coast there was a thick layer of clouds with less than 100' visibility I was in the middle of. Couldn't even see my flight and they were quite close. Got shot to hell by a 109 that never became visible.. Dove to the deck and coming out of the pea soup I finally saw a 109 chasing me down. I was told, reporting it quite a while ago, it was just the way it is and can't restrict AI's "vision", so that made it clear to me when flying SP I can't have MY vision restricted..

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Patricks

[Guest deleted@219798]

The last 2 career missions I flew may as well been lone patrols. 1st mission, balloon protection, flying Dr1. I climbed to around 2,000m, the rest of the flight and leader circled around 800m. 3 Spads came about 200m below me , so I had an advantage and got all 3. The other others weren't in a position to do anything. 2nd mission a free hunt, again flying Dr1. The rest of the flight didn't follow the route, just waffled around the edge of the Entente lines at around 1,000m or less. They managed to get a balloon. Meanwhile I got a few Camels by following the mission route. Any sort of tactical or common sense would say to gain altitude, AI pilots in my flights don't, As my pilot is still stuck at Feldwebel I don't get to lead flights. AI must have been trained from recruits found in a zoo. Flying circus need far better AI for SP.

[Harry85]

As the others describe, that's exactly how it is, unfortunately. In the meantime, I have also flown IL2 Bodenplatte and Kuban careers again. There, the AI pilots do not behave really highly intelligent or as real pilots would do. But the AI level is a thousand times better than in FC. It gives a certain amount of immersion.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that the developers are not really interested in solving the problem. I don't know.

[Guest deleted@219798]

The AI reminds me of a line from the "Battle of Britain" movie. "You could teach monkeys to fly better than that!". It seems that the developers are much more interested in WW2, whatever changes that are made for WW2, aren't always suitable for FC.

[cmbishop]

FC in VR is fantastic (as GB is !)

Thanks to the Team ! But could the AI be improved ? The lack of agressivness of AI fighters breaks the experience.

The AI fighters don’t seem to be interested by the other aircrafts. When an AI fighter decides to chase an enemy airplane, it only turns behind and sometimes fires only some cartridges. It’s really weird and annoying. The other AI planes just follow and don't engage the enemy...

Please could you make something about it ?

 

Best regards

[plepew]

Ditto to all above.  I've noticed the enemy AI seems to be better when flying some AC than others (i.e., they seem more challenging in the Sopwith Triplane than when flying the Fokker DVII). And by that I mean that they seem to do a better job ganging up on me, so that as soon as I maneuver on the tail of one, another one is peppering my tail.    Maybe that's just something I'm imagining, but I suspect there is some mismatch between the flight characteristics of many of the WW1 AC and the logic used by the AI.  Bottom line, as others have noted, the AI seems to handle WW2 AC much better than WW1 vintage.   

[jollyjack]

Advanced Properties: set the ai enemy planes behavior to high in the mission editor?

[Charon]

It really does seem strikingly worse than the WWII AI. I've spent the last year or so doing co-op WWII campaigns, and while the AI certainly has flaws, it can at least make me sweat, especially when I'm flying an inferior plane.

 

The FC AI though... I've recently joined a co-op Camel campaign, and the AI is so weak in comparison that all interest I had in Vol II or III has disappeared.

[ST_Catchov]

@LukeFF Are they gonna look into the problematic FC AI at all? Or is the new team (upped to 52 personnel or thereabouts I think(?)) engaged purely for the new project?

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

@LukeFF Are they gonna look into the problematic FC AI at all? Or is the new team (upped to 52 personnel or thereabouts I think(?)) engaged purely for the new project?

 

Yes, they are looking at it, but I am not sure at this time what the results will be.

[REAPER__40404]

So, flying for the German Empire about four of five missions in for Jasta 2 out of Velu 04.09.1916 Escorting Fighters my wingmen collide eith eachother and the escort flight keeps loosing altitude until smashing into the earth, please fix these issues.

[LukeFF]

36 minutes ago, REAPER__40404 said:

So, flying for the German Empire about four of five missions in for Jasta 2 out of Velu 04.09.1916 Escorting Fighters my wingmen collide eith eachother and the escort flight keeps loosing altitude until smashing into the earth, please fix these issues.

 

Please post your supporting mission and track files in this topic: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/86737-regarding-the-ai-issues-a-request-for-help/