FC3 & FC4 official announcement + planesets + release date FC3

[BMA_Hellbender]

Just in case you missed it as it's a little bit buried in a blog post, but FC3 and 4 are now officially announced:

 

https://il2sturmovik.com/news/790/update-5101-fc-volii-spitfire-mkxive-free-typhoon-/

 

TL;DR

 

FC3 (end of 2023)

 

• German Albatros D.II fighter
• German fighter Halberstadt D.II
• French Nieuport 17.C1 fighter
• French Nieuport 11.C1 fighter
• French fighter Nieuport 17.C1 GBR adapted for British service
• French Hanriot HD.1 fighter.
• British two-seat reconnaissance aircraft R.E.8.
• British two-seat medium bomber F.E.2b.

 

with Western Front map and Pilot Career mode finalised

 

 

FC4

 

• British Sopwith Pup fighter.
• British rear-engine fighter Airco DH.2.
• British two-seat reconnaissance Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter.
• German fighter Albatros D.III.
• German Fokker E.III monoplane fighter.
• German two-seat reconnaissance Roland C.IIa.

 

with further improvement to the maps

[Patricks]

Very underwhelming, and we are going to pay quite a bit for these "new" versions? Hopefully there will be a LOT more to look forward to, like near photo-realistic graphics availability, GREATLY improved AI, etc. to keep pace with modern equipment.. No man's land looks like something from 1995..

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Patricks

[No.23_Triggers]

Good to see the return of the early Nieuports and the Alb D.II. Have to admit, it stings a bit knowing we'll have to wait as long as we will for the Pup / D.III though...the two currently absent scouts I was most excited about...! 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

The Albatros DIII should be relisted before DII . 

[BMA_Hellbender]

23 minutes ago, Patricks said:

Very underwhelming, and we are going to pay quite a bit for these "new" versions? Hopefully there will be a LOT more to look forward to, like near photo-realistic graphics availability, GREATLY improved AI, etc. to keep pace with modern equipment..

 

 

I'm not sure what you find underwhelming, we've known for a while that FC would be porting over and remastering RoF planes. Graphics will improve as the engine itself evolves over the years and the maps are also updated. I do agree that AI needs improvement. I mainly hope that FM fixes will happen at some point to bring them in line with the Sopwith Snipe and Siemens-Schuckert.

 

2 minutes ago, No.23_Triggers said:

Good to see the return of the early Nieuports and the Alb D.II. Have to admit, it stings a bit knowing we'll have to wait as long as we will for the Pup / D.III though...the two currently absent scouts I was most excited about...! 

 

Just now, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

The Albatros DIII should be relisted before DII . 

 

Probably the only reason why the Pup and D.III are going into FC4 instead of FC3 is so that people would still be excited about FC4.

 

I'm obviously happy about the Hanriot HD.1 in FC3, but it's odd that we'll have it before those two. I do hope we'll get a tiny bit of Belgian front (just North of Ypres) at some point in FC3 or 4.

[No.23_Triggers]

6 minutes ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

Probably the only reason why the Pup and D.III are going into FC4 instead of FC3 is so that people would still be excited about FC4.

 

I'm obviously happy about the Hanriot HD.1 in FC3, but it's odd that we'll have it before those two. I do hope we'll get a tiny bit of Belgian front (just North of Ypres) at some point in FC3 or 4.

Yeah honestly the order is a bit muddled up with the release - going from the furthest extremes of 1918 to 1916 and leaving a big fat 1917-shaped gap in the middle, but like you say it might be just to keep the excitement. Seems particularly strange if they're focusing on completing career mode though...

Re: Snipe / Siemens...yeah, they turned out having pretty much the 'contextual' effect I expected - more modern FMs causing the current FMs to show their age...fingers crossed that the WW1 Performance Data book inspires a FM overhaul (although doing a full FC flight model upgrade seems like it would be a fairly sizeable amount of work for a product that's already released...hopefully not so much that they don't think it's worth the time/effort/resources) 

[ST_Catchov]

Big picture observation. It's still exciting considering, at one point, there were fears amongst discerning simmers that it may not progress beyond FC1.

[BlitzPig_EL]

There was also mentioned in the change notes that WW1 AI evasive maneuvers have been worked on.  Have not tested it yet in my missions, but will see if the tendency of WW1 German pilots to behave like they are in a Bf109 has changed at all.

[Trooper117]

It's good that the WWI side of things will go on to near completion of the RoF plane set... not sure on the plane selection for release of FC3 and 4. It seems that at least a couple are arse about face. 

People are already saying that they are getting weird match ups in career with planes that just shouldn't be there... the stock reply from officialdom is they are 'stand ins', and if you want a proper match up go to the late 1918 career???

If we have a career start in April 1917 there should be the correct aeroplanes to fly and fight against surely?... anyway, that's my minor gripes. The rest seems to be all good.

 

[Zooropa_Fly]

Disappointed not to be getting the Pup and Roland in #3, and yes would have liked the Alb III before the II.

I'm not convinced that the order of release would have affected sales that much.

Anyway, good to hear it's all in the planning.

With a bit of luck we might get 2 -4 collector planes along the way to flesh out the early war options, the DH2 and EIII were always a bit lonely in RoF. 

[Russkly]

Well, firstly I'm very pleased that FC lives on. That was a concern given the lengthy delay in completing FC2 compared to original release estimate.

 

I agree with some of the comments here that the plane set choice for FC3 seems a little unusual, but I can see the perspective of others that delaying the Pup and the D.III to FC4 will keep interest in that project a little higher perhaps.

 

Whilst I'm pleased that the multi-seasonal maps will come with FC3, I remain a little disappointed that we have to wait another few months for this (for me at least) critical upgrade - SP careers, whether in the new career mode or in PWCG will continue to lack all-round flavour with maps only representing a few months of any year.

 

Still, I'm in for the long haul.

[simfan2015]

4 hours ago, Patricks said:

Very underwhelming

I would, personally, call the FC3 and FC4 (?) announcement ... over-whelming.

Each and every one of those (FC I and II) WW I planes is a true piece of art, especially in VR.

The work, resources that must have gone into those must be immense !

We will, indeed, have to pay 'again'.

But what I payed for IL-2 GB is still less than what I had to pay for a.o. DCS World modules and maps.

I never expected this very positive outcome after reading all the questionable news and feedback of the last couple of months.

But as always YMMV ... as it shows.

I also have, as many people here I guess, a big personal wishlist of potential improvements to IL-2 GB, but I try to be realistic ... most important to 

 me is that IL-2 GB will live on.

I trust the Devs are doing what they can, they have proven themselves in the past over and over again ... why would they not

 keep on doing so ?

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by simfan2015

[kendo]

2 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

It's good that the WWI side of things will go on to near completion of the RoF plane set... not sure on the plane selection for release of FC3 and 4. It seems that at least a couple are arse about face. 

People are already saying that they are getting weird match ups in career with planes that just shouldn't be there... the stock reply from officialdom is they are 'stand ins', and if you want a proper match up go to the late 1918 career???

If we have a career start in April 1917 there should be the correct aeroplanes to fly and fight against surely?... anyway, that's my minor gripes. The rest seems to be all good.

 

 

You have a point, but i can see why they opted to set up the 1917 career option now. Gives people who are not too concerned about some historical inaccuracies the chance to do the early career - PWCG makes similar stand-in choices for some scenarios.

 

And, as always, if they hadn't included a 1917 option some would complain about the lack of it. It's the damned if they do, damned if they don't thing again. This way at least gives the option. Maybe it was also more efficient from the development side to implement it all now?

[BMA_Hellbender]

1 hour ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

With a bit of luck we might get 2 -4 collector planes along the way to flesh out the early war options, the DH2 and EIII were always a bit lonely in RoF. 

 

BE2c, Albatros C.I, Farman F.40 or Caudron G.4 and the Morane-Saulnier Type N fighter would be amazing, indeed!

 

We all know what we really need, though... engine variants for existing planes, and a late war German recon, the Rumpler C.VII Rubild.

[J15_Gontermann]

I'm not sure about the rest of the community, but I'd love to see an early war expansion that focuses solely on the start of the war and hopefully includes an Etrich Taube monoplane.

[LukeFF]

54 minutes ago, J15_Gontermann said:

I'm not sure about the rest of the community, but I'd love to see an early war expansion that focuses solely on the start of the war and hopefully includes an Etrich Taube monoplane.

 

I just don't see that happening, ever. 100 km/h top speed and armed with nothing but pistols and bolt-action rifles? ROFL yeah no, I'll pass.

 

Hopefully, the delay in the Albatros D.III to FC4 means we'll finally have the non-OAW version modeled.

[Russkly]

Interesting - I've just played the first mission of a Jasta 24 career (DVa) in June 1917 based north of Verdun.

 

The Entente squadrons based nearby are all flying Spads (inc. some XIIIs, which surprised me given the timing) according to the intel map.

 

So, what did I encounter in this mission? Spads? Nieuports? Breguets? Nope. Se5s and DH4s (at least I think they were, and they definitely sported RFC markings, but I couldn't get close enough to tell, because the Se's were all over me like a cheap suit).

 

Hmmm...not quite what I was expecting.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Russkly said:

Interesting - I've just played the first mission of a Jasta 24 career (DVa) in June 1917 based north of Verdun.

 

The Entente squadrons based nearby are all flying Spads (inc. some XIIIs, which surprised me given the timing) according to the intel map.

 

So, what did I encounter in this mission? Spads? Nieuports? Breguets? Nope. Se5s and DH4s (at least I think they were, and they definitely sported RFC markings, but I couldn't get close enough to tell, because the Se's were all over me like a cheap suit).

 

Hmmm...not quite what I was expecting.

 

Probably what is happening is the mission generator is looking for squadrons across the whole map instead of a limited distance. This was changed a while ago on the WWII side since certain plane types were just not showing up at all, even though they had the range to fly across the whole map. I've made a report about it in the testing forum, so we'll see what can be done about it. ?

[Russkly]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Probably what is happening is the mission generator is looking for squadrons across the whole map instead of a limited distance. This was changed a while ago on the WWII side since certain plane types were just not showing up at all, even though they had the range to fly across the whole map. I've made a report about it in the testing forum, so we'll see what can be done about it. ?

 

Thanks, Luke.

 

Here's hoping, because it was a bit of a surprise.

[=IRFC=Gascan]

10 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

 

BE2c, Albatros C.I, Farman F.40 or Caudron G.4 and the Morane-Saulnier Type N fighter would be amazing, indeed!

 

We all know what we really need, though... engine variants for existing planes, and a late war German recon, the Rumpler C.VII Rubild.

He speaks the truth!

[ST_Catchov]

11 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

BE2c, Albatros C.I, Farman F.40 or Caudron G.4 and the Morane-Saulnier Type N fighter would be amazing, indeed!

 

Call me weird but I'd really like RFC training missions using Farman Shorthorns/Longhorns/Be2's in England. I'd pay for that as a collector item. I've always been enthralled by the early crates.

 

What did the Germans use as trainers?

[BMA_Hellbender]

7 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

 

Call me weird but I'd really like RFC training missions using Farman Shorthorns/Longhorns/Be2's in England. I'd pay for that as a collector item. I've always been enthralled by the early crates.

 

What did the Germans use as trainers?

 

You're weird. Most of us here are.

 

Not sure what the Germans used, but the French used "rouleurs", clipped wing trainers which the students would roll with on the ground without taking off.

 

[J2_Trupobaw]

9 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

 

Call me weird but I'd really like RFC training missions using Farman Shorthorns/Longhorns/Be2's in England. I'd pay for that as a collector item. I've always been enthralled by the early crates.

 

What did the Germans use as trainers?

Albatros B.II . A really lovely machine. Austro-Hungarians armed it and used as a fighters well into 1916. And, there is a surviving example to base on.




So, the FC3 is going to be Nieuport / Hanriot edition, with other 1916 mainstays thrown in. I am disappointed by having just two German planes in there, but excited about return of the Halberstadt D.II. And much needed R.E.8.  It should pretty much seal the gap between 1916 and early 1918 (with Albartos D.III only thing missing).

FC4 seems to be all-stars set, made of exciting planes we just want to buy. And D.H.2, unless it gets remodelled.

Edited March 31, 2023 by J2_Trupobaw

[No.23_Starling]

1 hour ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

Albatros B.II . A really lovely machine. Austro-Hungarians armed it and used as a fighters well into 1916. And, there is a surviving example to base on.




So, the FC3 is going to be Nieuport / Hanriot edition, with other 1916 mainstays thrown in. I am disappointed by having just two German planes in there, but excited about return of the Halberstadt D.II. And much needed R.E.8.  It should pretty much seal the gap between 1916 and early 1918 (with Albartos D.III only thing missing).

FC4 seems to be all-stars set, made of exciting planes we just want to buy. And D.H.2, unless it gets remodelled.

I’m with you on more German 2 seaters and the meme which was the BE2c. Late war high alt Rumpler would be a bonus. The DH2 in RoF had an odd FM and couldn’t sustain a turn for toffee vs its main opponents which goes in the face of the science and eyewitness accounts (see Bennet, Gunning for the Red Baron, and Guttman, Pusher Aces of WW1).

 

I don’t know if the DH2 was nerfed at some point by the devs.

[[F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly]

23 hours ago, LukeFF said:

I just don't see that happening, ever. 100 km/h top speed and armed with nothing but pistols and bolt-action rifles? ROFL yeah no, I'll pass.

 

Wings over Flanders Fields was able to sell an expansion entirely based on this premise!

[No.23_Triggers]

On 3/30/2023 at 2:21 PM, Zooropa_Fly said:

With a bit of luck we might get 2 -4 collector planes along the way to flesh out the early war options, the DH2 and EIII were always a bit lonely in RoF. 

On that note, always thought that the DH2 suffers from N28 syndrome in that its FM is pitiful compared to its apparent real-world capabilities, and I've always suspected that that's essentially to give the E.III something it can go toe to toe with without being utterly beaten black and blue...imo what the early war scenarios desperately need is some 'prey' for the E.III (Moranes, B.E.2s, etc), and perhaps some earlier entente scouts - Vickers Gunbus, Bristol Scout, etc...as well as the D.H.2 getting a FM overhaul. 

 

[Enceladus828]

On 3/30/2023 at 8:42 AM, LukeFF said:

I just don't see that happening, ever. 100 km/h top speed and armed with nothing but pistols and bolt-action rifles? ROFL yeah no, I'll pass.

Well, they've done well in WoFF BH&H:II

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Enceladus said:

Well, they've done well in WoFF BH&H:II

 

Yes, and those are third-party mods for an extremely old and outdated engine.

 

That, and define "done well" in financial terms. 

[No.23_Starling]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, and those are third-party mods for an extremely old and outdated engine.

 

That, and define "done well" in financial terms. 

Personally, I find the atmosphere and living world of WoFF compelling. Even in the janky engine it doesn’t matter too much when you see random fighter patrols, recons, artillery bombardments, and are hunted by AI that are a real threat - I’ve been bounced and PKd more than once. Just taking a woeful BE2c up into those skies can be thrilling. The little touches like having to hammer your guns to unjam them with your pilot swearing is all part of that.

 

The tech is ancient but the world feels alive. Reminds me of the older 90s world of flight sims where single player was king. Before the dark times… before.. War Thunder….

[Trooper117]

1 hour ago, US103_Rummell said:

Personally, I find the atmosphere and living world of WoFF compelling. Even in the janky engine it doesn’t matter too much when you see random fighter patrols, recons, artillery bombardments, and are hunted by AI that are a real threat - I’ve been bounced and PKd more than once. Just taking a woeful BE2c up into those skies can be thrilling. The little touches like having to hammer your guns to unjam them with your pilot swearing is all part of that.

 

The tech is ancient but the world feels alive. Reminds me of the older 90s world of flight sims where single player was king. Before the dark times… before.. War Thunder….

 

Totally agree... Woff gets ridiculed because it's an older game, but it's feeling of being part of a squadron and completely immersed in the WWI conflict is far in advance of any other WWI combat flight sim out there. The AI is first class and believable. 

Yes, the graphics in FC are top notch there's no denying that... but fancy graphics aren't everything... given time, FC may well get up to RoF standards for it's career as it gets fleshed out, but I've yet to see anything that matches up to the complete package of WWI air warfare  that WoFF produces.

 

[jojy47jojyrocks]

I am hoping for much better career missions, like recon and map tools etc.

 

Also, more additions to the awarding system.

[JD007]

Looking forward to both FC 3 and 4. Its great that the Eindeckers and Aircos are being brought into the IL2 engine, its good to see some early air war content.

 

Would love to see the seaplanes added one day and the Eastern front, the Ilya Muromets was a great plane.

[J2_Trupobaw]

8 hours ago, No.23_Triggers said:

On that note, always thought that the DH2 suffers from N28 syndrome in that its FM is pitiful compared to its apparent real-world capabilities, and I've always suspected that that's essentially to give the E.III something it can go toe to toe with without being utterly beaten black and blue...imo what the early war scenarios desperately need is some 'prey' for the E.III (Moranes, B.E.2s, etc), and perhaps some earlier entente scouts - Vickers Gunbus, Bristol Scout, etc...as well as the D.H.2 getting a FM overhaul. 

 

Both historical E.III and D.H.2 suffer from grand amount of myth, and RoF versions show clearly how all over the place the suspitions of their capabilities are. Especially relative capabalities.

[ST_Catchov]

My understanding is the DH2 was superior in performance to the EIII which, along with the N11, ended the "Fokker Scourge". So we need early war pushers, monoplanes and obsolescent kites as fodder for the EIII. ? Yeah?

[Avimimus]

2 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

My understanding is the DH2 was superior in performance to the EIII which, along with the N11, ended the "Fokker Scourge". So we need early war pushers, monoplanes and obsolescent kites as fodder for the EIII. ? Yeah?

 

At least as AI. I have lots of thoughts on this. Would be interesting to see what people think.

[No.23_Starling]

9 hours ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

Both historical E.III and D.H.2 suffer from grand amount of myth, and RoF versions show clearly how all over the place the suspitions of their capabilities are. Especially relative capabalities.

Yes, but science and engineering can still tell us a lot. If you read Bennett, Gunning for the Red Baron (aerospace engineer) he produces models based on power loading, wing loading etc which can provide broad views on sustained turn. His analyses happen to match German and British accounts (see Guttman, British Pusher Aces of WW1) - DH2 was slower than the DII at all alts, could climb with it down low, and out turn it at most alts, but hopelessly outclassed in an energy fight.
 

I’d love to see @Holtzauge’s model these in his more complex simulations, particular the Eindecker match up.

PS, there’s no such thing as a perfect model, only better and worse ones. That being said, a better model is better than an anecdote or uninformed opinion.

[Russkly]

12 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 

Totally agree... Woff gets ridiculed because it's an older game, but it's feeling of being part of a squadron and completely immersed in the WWI conflict is far in advance of any other WWI combat flight sim out there. The AI is first class and believable. 

Yes, the graphics in FC are top notch there's no denying that... but fancy graphics aren't everything... given time, FC may well get up to RoF standards for it's career as it gets fleshed out, but I've yet to see anything that matches up to the complete package of WWI air warfare  that WoFF produces.

 

 

As a game WOFF is exceptional, and the AI is best in class; as a flight simulator, less so.

 

If somehow we could merge the WOFF game and the GB/FC flight simulator, then IMO we would have combat flight sim Nirvana.

[ACG_Ginger]

Can we  say that IL~2 is now just RoF 2 ? Nothing new just recycled.  We need some fresh idea's, we were flying this plane set 10 years ago.

 

[No.23_Starling]

30 minutes ago, ACG_Ginger said:

Can we  say that IL~2 is now just RoF 2 ? Nothing new just recycled.  We need some fresh idea's, we were flying this plane set 10 years ago.

 

Another look at the FMs using the devs’ newer C++ model and additional support from @Holtzauge would essentially mean new planes. The N28 for example could be transformed to something unrecognisable.

 

Engine variants for high compression Hispano and Merc engines would help there too.
 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by US103_Rummell

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, ACG_Ginger said:

Can we  say that IL~2 is now just RoF 2 ? Nothing new just recycled.  We need some fresh idea's, we were flying this plane set 10 years ago.

 

 

Sopwith Snipe and SSW D.IV are new... but I get the point - it'd be nice if each of the next modules had a premium addition with one or two completely new aircraft.