P 51 tail warning radar

[fogpipe]

Any chance of getting this or is it in already and im just missing it?

Edited March 25, 2023 by fogpipe

[FuriousMeow]

I don't think it was installed until the D-30, and we have a D-15 I think?

Edited March 25, 2023 by FuriousMeow

[fogpipe]

Looking at the wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tail_warning_radar some p47s also had  twr and the germans had a detector to locate planes using it, which the allies used to set traps:

 

"They were mostly used on World War II bombers, starting with the Monica system fit to Royal Air Force (RAF) heavy bombers starting in June 1942. The set was also produced in the US as the AN/APS-13, but used primarily on late-war fighter aircraft like the Republic P-47 and North American P-51. These had to be withdrawn over Europe in 1944 when it was learned the Luftwaffe was homing in on their signals using the Flensburg radar detector. A small number were then transferred to RAF de Havilland Mosquito night fighters to attract the German fighters, and when one was seen approaching the Mosquito would perform a controlled 360 degree turn that would result in the German aircraft in front of the Mosquito and centered in their radar. "

 

Fun stuff i wonder if that could be reasonably modeled in game.

Edited March 25, 2023 by fogpipe

[ROCKET_KNUT]

The An/APS-13 sets were even retrofitted to 51B/C models. Lucky Leaky II is one example.

[fogpipe]

Wow. Nice pic. Hope he was lucky enough to walk away.

[FuriousMeow]

If it were to get properly modeled and added - just the AN/APS-13 not the Luftwaffe radar detection system, I doubt that will get modeled in GB series - it'll probably be more of an annoyance than useful. It has a very narrow arc behind the aircraft and anything it detects will set off the bell. Below 4000ft it apparently picked up lots of interference and would ring off randomly. According to some anecdotes the pilots would just leave the system off until engagement because of how finicky it was, then forget to turn it on after engagement so it was just dead weight anyway.

[BlitzPig_EL]

What I'd really like to see are G suits for the P51B as one of the selectable modifications.

 

Far more useful than that radar system.

 

Oh, and APIT ammo for the .50" Brownings.

Edited March 25, 2023 by BlitzPig_EL

[357th_KW]

An example of the system in use: http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/78-landers-19march45.jpg

 

A description of the units from “A Manifest Spirit: The 359th Fighter Group”: 

 

“and the communications section also wrestled with a new gadget in the shape of tail-warning radar, described by Major Swiren in these terms: “The tail warning indicator will indicate any reflecting object two hundred to eight hundred yards behind the aircraft within an elliptical cone 90 degrees high and 60 degrees wide. “The cockpit indicators are a red light on the cowl and a huge doorbell. When the set is triggered, the light will flash and the bell will ring. The bell is just barely audible above normal cockpit noises. Some pilots claim that they notice the ringing of the bell first, but the majority notice the flashing red light. “The set indicates flak passing by the tail and wing tanks falling off. It also indicates every aircraft passing through the cone, whether it be wingman, friendly flight or enemy. For this reason many pilots feel that the indicator is really valuable only in combat or when striking home alone. “The first bug to develop is that the indicator is triggered in many of our ships when the pilots transmit on “A” Channel—the Group frequency. “The set is also continually triggered by ground objects when flying at altitudes below 3,100 feet. Hence, the set is unreliable when flying on the deck, the altitude where combat usually ends and the set is most needed. But for this reason it also serves as a rough absolute altimeter.”.  

Edited March 25, 2023 by 357th_KW

[fogpipe]

Thats a great read, nice find.

I would love to see it modeled in Il2 especially if it "gives good service" as in the first example. Two pretty much opposite descriptions of it, probably evolved in use.

2 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

What I'd really like to see are G suits for the P51B as one of the selectable modifications.

 

 

I just figured the g suits were modeled by default.

Edited March 25, 2023 by fogpipe

[LukeFF]

55 minutes ago, fogpipe said:

I just figured the g suits were modeled by default.

 

They are included based on the mission date (September 1944, IIRC). 

[FuriousMeow]

@LukeFF Do you know if that applies to AQMB if, for example, the 1945 Bodenplatte map is used? I won't further divert the convo for rear warning radar.

[Rjel]

This page about the tail warning radar is from the October 1944 magazine IMPACT, published by the USAAF. I bought a compilation of the magazine republished in book form 40 odd years ago.

 

Sorry for the bad scan. I didn't want to break the spine of the book flattening it out for a better picture.

 

 

[LukeFF]

47 minutes ago, FuriousMeow said:

@LukeFF Do you know if that applies to AQMB if, for example, the 1945 Bodenplatte map is used? I won't further divert the convo for rear warning radar.

 

Yes, last time I checked it does. So, you should not see American pilots with the G-suit on the Normandy map but definitely on the Rhineland ones. The easiest way to confirm is to go to the external view and zoom in on the pilot model.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Only on the D model however.  The G suit certainly is not modeled on the B.

[69th_chuter]

On a marginally related note, our P-51A (436274) had the tail radar installed.  Our aircraft was never overseas and I have no clue on the install date, but I would guess it was a pre-production version installed for beta testing.