Junkers Ju-52 - workhorse of Stalingrad?

[ATAG_Slipstream]

I think some where at Leningrad, but not at Stalingrad.But it won the poll of aircraft wanted ingame, so there you go. Personally I would rather have a Do17...

110 anyone?

Edited July 28, 2013 by JG52Uther

[Zorin]

We already have seen this in 2005 by 1C and so I have no doubt about them deciding NOT to include it deliberately. Same applies for the Fw200 and Bf 108. These are already finished and in their possesion and would suit the BoS scenario well, yet they are not included. Additionally, they did not reuse the E series or the 110. Even though they wouldn't need to alter a lot to make them fit the new scenario. In the end they will charge us money for planes we already payed for with CLOD...

Edited July 28, 2013 by Zorin

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Okey then. As I said, I don't have access to my books atm and apparently not everything in the internet is true...

[TJT]

Does anyone know if 190 appeared at all in BoS? I./JG53 did participate and they were equipped with 190, but I don't know if they had received those at the time when they were in BoS. I am traveling atm and don't have access to my library.

 

That error is on wikipedia. Should say I/JG 51 who flew around the Rheze-Vyazma salient, ie not around Stalingrad, during the timeframe of BOS. And JG 54 used FW 190's around Leningrad too.

Edited July 28, 2013 by TJT

[csThor]

The Fw 190 as fighter on the Eastern front was limited to JG 54 (except III. Gruppe which left for Germany in late 1942), JG 51 (minus II. Gruppe which was transferred to Tunisia, rest reverted to Bf 109 except for the Stabsstaffel in late 1943/1944) and a short stint by I./JG 26 near Leningrad. The majority of the Fw 190s on the Eastern Front were ground-attack aircraft.

[707shap_Srbin]

Lets hope its as bad ingame as in real life then Bersrk!

 

Use GOOGLE Translate. Early La-5's front evaluations on Stalingrad front, aug.42, official report.

[707shap_Srbin]

110 anyone?

 

Yeah, my dream (after IL-2 with VYa's) is this bird, photoed at Stalingrad at january 1943.

StaKa 4./ZG1, Oblt. Viedebantt.

[6S.Manu]

I love the Fw190 but for this theatre I would prefer a 109E (and the 109G2 in the external package with the La5).

 

But I understand the financial aspect of this decision. I hope that online missions will be Fw-free.

About the Ju52 I know that is was important but I see no reason to spend time on that model in this stage of the sim.

If think to the past disaster, they paid employers to model bycicles and other useless stuff... so 777 did the right thing IMO.

[Bussard_x]

I/JG51 was the first "Gruppe" on the eastern front fully equiped with the Fw 190A-3 early 1943. So not around Stalingrad.

[707shap_Srbin]

I/JG51 was the first "Gruppe" on the eastern front fully equiped with the Fw 190A-3 early 1943. So not around Stalingrad.

In september 1942.

[Zorin]

If think to the past disaster, they paid employers to model bycicles and other useless stuff... so 777 did the right thing IMO.

 

When will people finally understand that 3D modelers don't code or do any other stuff??? The amount of objects made for CLOD had NOTHING to do with its failure.

[Bussard_x]

In september 1942.

You are right september 1942 Leningrad area.

[6S.Manu]

When will people finally understand that 3D modelers don't code or do any other stuff??? The amount of objects made for CLOD had NOTHING to do with its failure.

 

So modellers get not paid in your world?

 

Think about this:

same budget but less 3D modellers = more code developers (probably a better engine, that WAS the reason of the failure).

Edited July 28, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[Zorin]

So modellers get not paid in your world?

 

Think about this:

same budget but less 3D modellers = more code developers (probably a better engine, that WAS the reason of the failure).

 

They are not hired on a model basis... They have a two year contract and in these two years they will build as much as they can, simple as that.

[707shap_Srbin]

You are right september 1942 Leningrad area.

Vyazma area, JG51.

[LukeFF]

In the end they will charge us money for planes we already payed for with CLOD...

 

 

Different game, different development team, different engine.

[LukeFF]

In reading through Bergstrom's book on Stalingrad, it's interesting to note that the Ju 52 pilots (who were regarded to be quite good) ultimately preferred to just fly supply missions unescorted at very low altitude in bad weather. The planes were so slow, which made it very hard for the Bf 109s to maintain formation with them, and of course flying at altitude made them all the more obvious to Soviet fighters. 

[Zorin]

 

Different game, different development team, different engine.

 

And someone who has no clue. Apart from the obvious fact that the team is half of that that made up the CLOD team, we know for a fact that they took over their materials and models which are by their very nature interchangeable between both engines. So if you don't know a thing about 3d stuff, better not comment.

[DD_Arthur]

And someone who has no clue.

 

Ooops!!  Couldn't be more wrong there Zorin

[LukeFF]

And someone who has no clue. Apart from the obvious fact that the team is half of that that made up the CLOD team, we know for a fact that they took over their materials and models which are by their very nature interchangeable between both engines. So if you don't know a thing about 3d stuff, better not comment.

 

 

Take a look at the credits for IL2 to see who modeled the He 162 cockpit.

 

Do you really think the developers can just take the models from an entirely different game and engine and plop them into the new one? So if you don't know a thing about 3D stuff, better not comment.

[DD_bongodriver]

 

Take a look at the credits for IL2 to see who modeled the He 162 cockpit.

 

Do you really think the developers can just take the models from an entirely different game and engine and plop them into the new one? So if you don't know a thing about 3D stuff, better not comment.

 

 

Take a look at developer diary I, and you will see screenshots of them doing exactly that.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?do=findComment&comment=1694

[Zorin]

Take a look at developer diary I, and you will see screenshots of them doing exactly that.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?do=findComment&comment=1694

 

Thanks for digging it out, much appreciated

 

Take a look at the credits for IL2 to see who modeled the He 162 cockpit.

 

Do you really think the developers can just take the models from an entirely different game and engine and plop them into the new one? So if you don't know a thing about 3D stuff, better not comment.

 

Check the link bongodriver gave you and then proceed to put your foot in your mouth.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Cant really comment on this one as I truly have no idea what it takes.  However, I think we are gettign away from ourselves.  From how its been explained to me. Even with a model in the "engine"  that is not even 1/4 the work needed to bring it to life in DN.  So to just port something over, what ever they have to make it show up, isnt the whole ball of wax.

 

I understand where they are going and what they are trying to do.  This argument while relavent for this theatre, may become less so, when we see the next theatre announced which ever that might be. 

 

Personally?  Id rather dogfight in a FW-190 that be the 1/3 promised casualty in the JU-52.  straight and level isnt as much fun when the only think you are dropping off is soft pinkies.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Hooves

[Zorin]

Cant really comment on this one as I truly have no idea what it takes.  However, I think we are gettign away from ourselves.  From how its been explained to me. Even with a model in the "engine"  that is not even 1/4 the work needed to bring it to life in DN.  So to just port something over, what ever they have to make it show up, isnt the whole ball of wax.

 

I understand where they are going and what they are trying to do.  This argument while relavent for this theatre, may become less so, when we see the next theatre announced which ever that might be. 

 

Personally?  Id rather dogfight in a FW-190 that be the 1/3 promised casualty in the JU-52.  straight and level isnt as much fun when the only think you are dropping off is soft pinkies.

 

Well, the real issue here is the insistence to have a plane flyable to be in the game, which is rather dumb if you ask me. Cause that way we will never have any transport/recon/liaison planes in game.

 

On the modelling issue, even if it is only 1/4 of the total time, it is still a very time consuming thing to "just" build an entire plane or just a number of proper ground objects, so I would not disregard the edge they have been given by taking over essentially all 3d objects from CLOD.

[76SQN-J0NJ0N]

In the end they will charge us money for planes we already payed for with CLOD...

 

 

So by that logic 1C should give us the game for free because they already produced all these planes for IL2? Pretty sure the 3d model is a tiny fraction of the work that goes into producing a plane, think about sound, re-texturing, flight model, damage model, cockpit etc. Even the link bongodriver posted says that they have to do a lot more work on the existing models, and they could only use some of them.

[DD_bongodriver]

The models used are not from CLOD but from the already created content for the sequel unofficially termed as BOM (battle of Moscow), they gave us some screenshots of it shortly before the plug was pulled.

 

Let's not get into a drawn out argument here folks, someone simply mentioned the devs used these ready made models, this has now been demonstrated as true, nobody claimed it was a simple drop-in and play affair.

Edited July 28, 2013 by DD_bongodriver

[ATAG_Slipstream]

 

  Id rather dogfight in a FW-190

So would I, just not over Stalingrad, as it wasn't there... 

[Zorin]

So by that logic 1C should give us the game for free because they already produced all these planes for IL2? Pretty sure the 3d model is a tiny fraction of the work that goes into producing a plane, think about sound, re-texturing, flight model, damage model, cockpit etc. Even the link bongodriver posted says that they have to do a lot more work on the existing models, and they could only use some of them.

 

1. You go and build an entire plane and cockpit and then come back to me on how much work that is.

2. Damage model and cockpit are just part of the 3D model...

3. More work means simply adjusting the materials for the new lighting engine, linking parts to new hooks and stuff.

4. Of course they could only use some of them, cause others make no sense in Soviet Russia or when was the last time you heard of a Crusader tank in the Battle of Stalingrad?

[Ploofy]

How many people would pay for a Ju52 compared to a FW190?

 

There is your answer, and its common sense to me.

I will pay for the two.... and for the JU-52 first !!!

[Zorin]

The models used are not from CLOD but from the already created content for the sequel unofficially termed as BOM (battle of Moscow), they gave us some screenshots of it shortly before the plug was pulled.

 

Let's not get into a drawn out argument here folks, someone simply mentioned the devs used these ready made models, this has now been demonstrated as true, nobody claimed it was a simple drop-in and play affair.

 

Pretty sure they recycled all applicable ground objects and even the He111 will have been simply altered to become a later H series plane instead of being an entirely scratch built one.

[DD_fruitbat]

So would I, just not over Stalingrad, as it wasn't there... 

 

This.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Pretty sure they recycled all applicable ground objects and even the He111 will have been simply altered to become a later H series plane instead of being an entirely scratch built one.

 

Im pretty sure you dont know how the DN process works, but then again niether do I fully.  So id just leave this one up to the devs. 

 

So would I, just not over Stalingrad, as it wasn't there... 

 

 

Well, it was in a bunch of other theatres, so one can only hope this does well enough for it to make sense to you and others concerend with Historic accuracy (which BTW is still very important) 

 

but as someone else put it.  Im sure there would have been a public hanging if the two unlockables were the LA-5 and the JU-52. 

 

And it begs to be mentioned that alot of other people just straight up wanted the FW to be in the game.  And many even pre-ordered on that merit.  Cant say I can argue with that. In fact Id be willing to say that more are overjoyed with its inclusion than the opposite.

 

Lets just have some patience here.  Things will all come out in the wash.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Hooves

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Oh I'm happy to have the FW modelled Hooves (although I have never managed to fly it well!) I just really hope there is not a mish mash of planes released in future that have little to no bearing on the theatre modelled.

As I have already said here, the FW won the vote, so it makes financial sense to model it. From a historical perspective and Stalingrad I don't have to like it, but many do.

Edited July 28, 2013 by JG52Uther

[Sokol1]

So would I, just not over Stalingrad, as it wasn't there... 

 

Welcome to OUR Stalingrad. 

 

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/051/7/d/red_orchestra_2_by_sillverdesigns-d4qcrta.jpg

 

Déjà vu...

 

Sokol1

[Zorin]

Another thing that just dawned on me while looking at old IL-2 footage is the fact that ALL models that depict types of aircraft based on the same platform (109, Yak, Spitfire, LaGG, etc.) should ALWAYS be made from the same base 3D model cause otherwise you will end up with such crap as the Spitfires in IL-2, where there were at least three different types of blueprint sets used to model the various incarnations and in the end all ended up being vastly different/wrong even in the base components ALL of them share.

[LukeFF]

Thanks for digging it out, much appreciated

 

Check the link bongodriver gave you and then proceed to put your foot in your mouth.

 

That's OK, I don't like the taste of feet. The bigger question / issue is, why are you so up in arms about this? CloD is an entirely different title. If 1CGS wants to import every last model from CloD into BoS and charge people for it, that's their choice. 

 

Oh, and for the link, think long and hard what they mean by that text in bold. 

 

Here's the result of test aircraft exports to a new project (not showing the final quality, just model export).

Edited July 29, 2013 by LukeFF

[JG27_Chivas]

ROF released quite a number of aircraft after its initial release.  I see no reason that we won't see the JU52 and many other aircraft at some point.   This is a good marketing plan as the LA5 and FW 190 would attract far more people purchasing the preorder than a JU52 would.   Most of the hyperlobby servers seemed to be dogfight servers, so a large portion of the community will be seen in and enjoying  LA5vsFW190 type servers.   While others will be enjoying more historic Stalingrad coops and 24/7 online historical wars.   The developer seems to want to develop theaters much like the original series did, but charge separately for a large proportion of the aircraft, which should give them a much needed regular revenue stream to continue the theater development.   Hope it works out. 

[Zorin]

That's OK, I don't like the taste of feet. The bigger question / issue is, why are you so up in arms about this? CloD is an entirely different title. If 1CGS wants to import every last model from CloD into BoS and charge people for it, that's their choice. 

 

Oh, and for the link, think long and hard what they mean by that text in bold. 

 

I just think it is a dodgy policy, that is all.

 

The text in bold just means what I posted above already:

 

3. More work means simply adjusting the materials for the new lighting engine, linking parts to new hooks and stuff.

[II./JG27_Rich]

It's hard to imagine a retelling of the Stalingrad campaign without the ubiquitous Ju-52. Either as a flyable aircraft, or even just as a ground object. Would this aircraft be chosen for later release?

 

The inclusion of the Ju-52 would make for some very interesting mission types. Trying to fly supplies in and wounded out. Planning a route to try and avoid interception and piloting a dangerously overloaded aircraft in all weathers. It would also be the favourite prey of Soviet fighters, and the one for the jagdwaffe to protect. It appeared on every front throughout the entire war, and once included would be able to be used by 1cGS in all subsequent Addons and expansions. A worthwhile investment!

Agree the Ju-52 needs to be included

[migmadmarine]

I won't be suprised if it is one of the first to be put in after release.