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Feathered_IV

Junkers Ju-52 - workhorse of Stalingrad?

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It's hard to imagine a retelling of the Stalingrad campaign without the ubiquitous Ju-52. Either as a flyable aircraft, or even just as a ground object. Would this aircraft be chosen for later release?

 

The inclusion of the Ju-52 would make for some very interesting mission types. Trying to fly supplies in and wounded out. Planning a route to try and avoid interception and piloting a dangerously overloaded aircraft in all weathers. It would also be the favourite prey of Soviet fighters, and the one for the jagdwaffe to protect. It appeared on every front throughout the entire war, and once included would be able to be used by 1cGS in all subsequent Addons and expansions. A worthwhile investment!

Edited by Feathered_IV
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Agreed, I really hope to see this plane added im.  Im sure there will be some ready to jump in and fly in around, I beleive it was retrofitted with a top turrent as well to help protect it. 

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I was surprised also to read that there will be no "Tante Ju".

How can  you make a Battle of Stalingrad flight sim including historical missions/ campaigns without the Ju-52? :huh:  :nea: 

And why is the FW-190 included while it did not take part during the battle?

 

Pity though the I-16 will also not be included.  :( 

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Gents, You want a trasport aircraft, flying wich iwould be interesting?

 

Here You are.

post-1464-0-76166600-1375010032_thumb.jpg

 

He111H-6 was much more suitable for transport missions than Ju52 because of:

-it is simply faster, and not such a "sitting duck" for soviet fighters as Ju52 (keep in mind that some Il-2 were engaged in "anti-transport-missions" :)

-better defencive weapon

-more suited for winter conditions, better navigation in bad weather.

-could be a BOMBER aircraft if need (mid-december bomber operations in Kotelnikovo area, supporting Wintergewitter)

 

There were following He111 units:

KGrzbV5

KGrzbV20

KGrzbV23

KGrzbV25

 

III./KG4

 

Stab./KG27

I./KG27

II./KG27

III./KG27

 

II./KG 53

 

Stab./KG 55

I./KG 55

II./KG 55

III./KG 55

 

I./KG 100

 

So, it would be interesting, trust me :)

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Still, excluding the standard transport aircraft of Germany, an iconic type to boot, leaves a bit of a  sour taste in my mouth. IMO it would have been much better had the work spent on the Fw 190 (which is irrelevant for a Stalingrad scenario) been spent on at least an AI Ju 52. Just saying ...

Edited by csThor
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How many people would pay for a Ju52 compared to a FW190?

 

There is your answer, and its common sense to me.

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If you reduce project focus on monetary issues you could limit the planeset to a Spit, a Fw 190, a Bf 109, Jug, Stang and Lightning and be done with it ... Flying transport aircraft is one key task for AI so I'm not completely sold on "no AI-only aircraft" policy of 777. It seems to be centered too much on online thinking.

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I agree its not perfect, and i would love the Ju52 to be there, and i agree its a limiting factor for offline play.

 

But at the start of the release i can understand it.

 

Lets hope BOS is a winner and these things can be added at a later date.

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Yeah....let's all chill, what's wrong with releasing a game which is imperfect and expect to see improvements in due course......glad you finally see the light Furbs.

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 It seems to be centered too much on online thinking.

 

 

And that might be part of the problem.

I mean what serious opponent is there for the FW-190 at the moment? None I would say.

All Russian planes like Yak-1 and LaGG-3 will be massacred by the FW-190.

To get some online competition It wouldn't be such a bad idea to add a serious opponent like the La-5.

A plane that wasn't available neither during BoS.

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La5 is also a bonus plane along with the 190.

 

However, unlike the 190, i believe the La5 did actually turn up at the end of Stalingrad irl.

 

Both, will most likely rape the rest of the planeset.....

 

That said, very much looking forward to flying the A3.

Edited by fruitbat

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La5 is also a bonus plane along with the 190.

 

 

Ah yes, you're right!

Sometimes all the info is too much for my limited brain capacity. :biggrin:

 

Quote:

  • Special Aircraft Set: Buyers of the Premium Edition will also get access to a couple more special aircraft (La-5 and Fw-190 A-3) which cannot be obtained in the game, but can be purchased in our store after launch.

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If the 190 brings in more paying customers compared to a Ju52 I guess the team management made the right decision.

I vote on management for now.

When all less "hardcore" and un-enlightened (like me) players have paid the bill there might be room for the more historical approach.

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Yeah....let's all chill, what's wrong with releasing a game which is imperfect and expect to see improvements in due course......glad you finally see the light Furbs.

 

Hallelujah!

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Historical significance of key aircraft shouldn't be held to ransom by the onliners.

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Historical significance of key aircraft shouldn't be held to ransom by the onliners.

No point spending $ thousands on developing an aircraft that only ten people will buy*, even though I would love to see it, and actually flew it in il2 online wars. Forget the past, its all about what people will pay for now.

(*All figures pulled out of my *****)

Edited by JG52Uther

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If so then we're in trouble. Imagine someone made a 8th USAAF sim and didn't do a B-17 as the investment (3D model + X cockpits + animations + systems modeling) is too great for too small gain. Now that would be a sh'tstorm I'd love to see ... :o:

 

Bottom line is I wouldn't have raised an eyebrow at the absence of the Ju 52 if the Fw 190 hadn't been there as a "bonus aircraft". That makes me wonder how much relevance and usefulness for people other than onliners counts with the devs when all is said and done (and when the bills come in). IMO money is a key constraint, no doubt about it, but it can't be the only argument pro/contra aircraft types to be developed.

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No point spending $ thousands on developing an aircraft that only ten people will buy*, even though I would love to see it, and actually flew it in il2 online wars. Forget the past, its all about what people will pay for now.

(*All figures pulled out of my *****)

 

 

That's what games like War Thunder are for, let the historically ignorant airquake it out in airplanes they saw in movies once.

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'Tante Ju' should be in as an AI plane, it played a huge part in the air war in the area and prolonged the Stalingrad battle by means of transport to the encircled city. Don't quite get the 'no-AI planes only' approach either, just leaves out a lot of important/significant planes which few want to fly.

 

I get their approach though. They don't make the game for long lasting appeal, same with ROF. The JU52 would be a great addition to missions but will create no revenue from the masses that just want to get into the fastest ride and dogfight in QMB or play in a server. 

Edited by Sven
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The FW190 won the poll that ran. I dislike it but money talks. Just thank god that a Mustang didn't win.

Edited by JG52Uther

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But 50 cals won teh war, how will we flip tigers without them?

 

I want a mustang whah!

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And ju-52 would be extremely useful for the game series (I hope), since Germans used it everywhere.

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'Tante Ju' should be in as an AI plane, it played a huge part in the air war in the area and prolonged the Stalingrad battle by means of transport to the encircled city. Don't quite get the 'no-AI planes only' approach either, just leaves out a lot of important/significant planes which few want to fly.

 

 

 

I think some of you guys really should download free to play Rise of Flight so you can get a better understanding of the DN engine and how it works.  You'd also get an idea of whether you'll be able to run BoS on your machine too.  There are no a.i. planes as the amount of time and effort needed to create them is almost the same as a flyable in the DN engine.  The flight model takes as much time to construct as the 3D model itself.  Therefore from an economic point of view all the planes made available will be flyable. 

 

This is not IL21946/CoD.  It does things differently.  If you consider the timescale, I think the team have worked wonders to give us this scale of map and a pretty good, relevant plane set for the period.

Edited by arthursmedley
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And ju-52 would be extremely useful for the game series (I hope), since Germans used it everywhere.

 

So true, hopefully management can lift a little on the "no-AI" stance (as said by Sven above) so we can use them in missions (paratroops capturing airfieds for instance - yeah, not historical yada yada).

 

I see their point that creating a plane is so much work due to ai flying the same FM as us etc (really good news btw) but I thought creating a cockpit was a major undertake and as such AI-only planes would be possible/reasonable. Guess I was wrong.

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On the ROF boards 777 have always insisted that the engineering stuff, the flight and damage model coding, is the limiting factor.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about the Ju 52 not appearing at some time, we've had the RE8 in ROF after all. 777 coded artillery spotting and recon for ROF, they could include paratroop drops and supply runs for BOS, why not?

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And that might be part of the problem.

I mean what serious opponent is there for the FW-190 at the moment? None I would say.

All Russian planes like Yak-1 and LaGG-3 will be massacred by the FW-190.

To get some online competition It wouldn't be such a bad idea to add a serious opponent like the La-5.

A plane that wasn't available neither during BoS.

If the multi-player set up is anything like RoF, then most server owners will not include the FW in the list of aircraft useable on the server. 

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The 190 did not feature during BoS? Anyway for what's its worth I'd like to see the Ju-52 someday too, hopefully not too late after release, the arguments provided are pretty compelling, but I understand its omission right now, probably down to time and resources. If they release in pairs, what could they release for the Russian side? I'd like to see Night Witches, although if its like for like we'd need a Russian transport plane.

 

If they had tried to sale the premium with the Ju-52 on the German side and the La-5 on the Russian I think we'd have seen other comments on this, and probably not so nice ones.

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Ju-52/3m in pair with Li-2 (Douglas DC3) would be nice, then they can reuse the DC3 for North Afrika and western front etc :)

Ok, shoot me haha.

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Ju-52/3m in pair with Li-2 (Douglas DC3) would be nice, then they can reuse the DC3 for North Afrika and western front etc :)

Ok, shoot me haha.

OK we all agree what new theatre of war should be :)

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However, unlike the 190, i believe the La5 did actually turn up at the end of Stalingrad irl.

 

...

 

Both, will most likely rape the rest of the planeset.....

 

1. On moment please - La-5's saw action in large numbers from august 1942, directly at Stalingrad. And flew through all the Battle, being a 3rd fighter a/c after Yak-1 and Yak-7 in meaning of quantity.

2. La-5 (1942, original "hunchback") was iRL nothing common with La-5 as it is in IL-2: '46.  Fact: when "aces" regiment (434 iap) was established,  major Klescshov tested Yak-7B and La-5 and was very disapointed in latter's flight chars, choosing Yak-7B.

The 190 did not feature during BoS?

 

 

We may see air battle over Rzhev area ("Mars" operation), or battle over Velikiye Luki (I./JG51's Fw190A-3 +I II./JG54's Bf109G-2), who knows :)

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Lets hope its as bad ingame as in real life then Bersrk! ;)

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I'd be surprised if we didn't get it a little while down the line but they're building a whole new game in 9 months or so, which means we won't get everything we want at first release. If RoF is anything to go by they'll build what people want given some time and assuming sales go well.

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Lets hope its as bad ingame as in real life then Bersrk! ;)

 

whats the betting.......

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Does anyone know if 190 appeared at all in BoS? I./JG53 did participate and they were equipped with 190, but I don't know if they had received those at the time when they were in BoS. I am traveling atm and don't have access to my library.

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La5 is also a bonus plane along with the 190.

 

However, unlike the 190, i believe the La5 did actually turn up at the end of Stalingrad irl.

 

Both, will most likely rape the rest of the planeset.....

 

That said, very much looking forward to flying the A3.

 

The razorback La-5 of 1942 wouldnt really rape a 109G-2 or even a F-4. The -5FN would be needed for that.

 

But I can only roll my eyes at the deciction to include the 190 as a bonus. :wacko:  They started a slippery glide with going of scenario planeset so early.

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I./JG 53 and Fw 190??? :o: To paraphrase Oleg "close that book and never open it again". I./JG 53 was withdrawn at the end of September 1942 and transferred to Sicily to strengthen the axis air effort against Malta. Throughout the war they retained the Bf 109.

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