VR clod is a myth change my mind

[Dagwoodyt]

Could be the only thing TFS and its' "partners" can agree on is the centrality of selling more DW-T DLC. The CloD code is worthless without TFS to maintain it in saleable condition. The "partners'" challenge is to to get TFS to maintain a saleable, though maybe not very popular product, at bottom dollar compensation. If that is the case a contentious relationship between TFS, its' "partners" and some of its' customers' expectations is inevitable.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

2 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Could be the only thing TFS and its' "partners" can agree on is the centrality of selling more DW-T DLC. The CloD code is worthless without TFS to maintain it in saleable condition. The "partners'" challenge is to to get TFS to maintain a saleable, though maybe not very popular product, at bottom dollar compensation. If that is the case a contentious relationship between TFS, its' "partners" and some of its' customers' expectations is inevitable.

 

 

Earning money depends on the time and energy one spends in a given activity. 1C doesn't spend a second a year in "IL2-1946", they had completely abandoned "IL2-1946" to  Daidalos Team (non proffessional modders) and simply collect 8 dollars a sale from time to time. They won't waste their time in this game, they simply let it produce a residual gain. They could have done the same thing with "Cliffs of Dover" but they didn't, if not they wouldn't have had all the meetings and discussions with TFS in the last two years. At this point they are still discussing and negociating. We don't know what, but apparently something is going on. I, personnally, remain optimistic.

 

 

[Jack_Daniels1983]

11 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Patience is the clue word.

You know how it ends in a relationship when one partner just says please be patient with me?

First you don't have anything else to say to each other, then the aversion comes and you're just annoyed no matter what it's about and then you file for divorce and look for a new partner. Through fault or no fault of their own, TFS is almost halfway down this path (as the event player numbers show). 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

3 minutes ago, Jack_Daniels1983 said:

You know how it ends in a relationship when one partner just says please be patient with me?

First you don't have anything else to say to each other, then the aversion comes and you're just annoyed no matter what it's about and then you file for divorce and look for a new partner. Through fault or no fault of their own, TFS is almost halfway down this path (as the event player numbers show). 

 

 

Maybe, but if so it is, first of all look for obtaining contact details and, then, start sending emails to 1C, or to Fulqrum, or to wohever is locking the situation. Let's leave TFS alone, they are fed up with this situation, as we all are.

 

By the way, this forum is not TFS' official forum. They owe us nothing here, so please, in general, you people stop demanding this or demanding that. The only forum that could be considered official is ATAG's forum, but I'm not confident with a ton of responses from TFS there. My suspicion is that the situation is locked because of a chain of causality that goes far beyond us and TFS.

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

7 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Although it has been mentioned, this is the last official comment I can see from Buzzsaw on the ATAG forums on Feb 14th

Is this screenshot TFS' "official" announcement of an "open" beta or simply screenshot of a reponse to another post or thread that could readily be misconstrued as a TFS' announcement.

[Jack_Daniels1983]

6 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

Maybe, but if so it is, first of all look for obtaining contact details and, then, start sending emails to 1C, or to Fulqrum, or to wohever is locking the situation. Let's leave TFS alone, they are fed up with this situation, as we all are.

 

By the way, this forum is not TFS' official forum. They owe us nothing here, so please, in general, you people stop demanding this or demanding that. The only forum that could be considered official is ATAG's forum, but I'm not confident with a ton of responses from TFS there. My suspicion is that the situation is locked because of a chain of causality that goes far beyond us and TFS.

 

 

I guess if we (the community) know hows responsible for the situation (1C, or to Fulqrum, or to wohever), we will take the needed steps. But lack of information we can't. So I blame the "company" in the Title Screen (what yes, maybe is unfair). 

My thought was, both are official Forums. Thanks for clearifing, i will keep in mind.

TFS are fed up with this situation, so should we just swallow the "feeling that we've been ripped off"? Of course everyone always says no no, that's coming, don't worry. TFS is not at fault they do their best. But as of now, we have paid money for something that cannot be predicted when it will be delivered. Not everyone sees this as a donation "for a good cause". And yes, we who are slowly losing patience are probably at least a little to blame for the wrong management of expectations. But this is about an exchange of views. I accept that you have different opinions here and that's ok too. As long as we're polite to each other, we're allowed to have different opinions. And who knows, maybe one day we'll fly side by side into a beautiful sunset over the cliffs of Dover on a full server and be happy. But until the time comes, I will (at least internally) whine about every day on which that is not yet possible.

 

 

[Mysticpuma]

33 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Is this screenshot TFS' "official" announcement of an "open" beta or simply screenshot of a reponse to another post or thread that could readily be misconstrued as a TFS' announcement.

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36617#post388626

It's easier to have a discussion here if you have a complaint than on the ATAG forums. 

There you will just be kicked and banned if you aren't happy with the progress. 

[Jack_Daniels1983]

9 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36617#post388626

It's easier to have a discussion here if you have a complaint than on the ATAG forums. 

There you will just be kicked and banned if you aren't happy with the progress. 

Really now? You gave them money and just say that you are dissatisfied or "not satisfied yet" (no offense of course, purely objective) and there is a ban for that. If that's true, I'm no longer surprised. This explains why the player base is getting smaller and smaller  (byside the missing Update ofcourse). But if that's how they treat the community, why are they still defending some here?

Edited March 2, 2023 by Jack_Daniels1983

[Mysticpuma]

7 minutes ago, Jack_Daniels1983 said:

Really now? You gave them money and just say that you are dissatisfied or "not satisfied yet" (no offense of course, purely objective) and there is a ban for that. If that's true, I'm no longer surprised. This explains why the player base is getting smaller and smaller  (byside the missing Update ofcourse). But if that's how they treat the community, why are they still defending some here?

The situation is, TFS own ATAG so if you are an antagonist or naysayer then they will find it easier to silence you than over here.

I haven't been banned but I know they have wanted to previously. 

Over here threads get locked but it is rare to be banned, usually it's just time off in solitary. 

I should have written "can" be kicked and banned if you aren't happy with the progress. 

[Jack_Daniels1983]

5 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

The situation is, TFS own ATAG so if you are an antagonist or naysayer then they will find it easier to silence you than over here.

I haven't been banned but I know they have wanted to previously. 

Over here threads get locked but it is rare to be banned, usually it's just time off in solitary. 

I should have written "can" be kicked and banned if you aren't happy with the progress. 

But thats drives away the players who are interested in CLOD. After all, they wouldn't ask or express dissatisfaction if they weren't interested. That's sad ?.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

There's no need the ATAG's forum becomes a place where TFS permanently receives unjustified attacks, insults and comments of hate. We already have the present forum for that. If all the bans that should happen here happen there... then I'm glad. Have a nice day gentlemen.

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

short fuse maybe? 

[No.54_Reddog]

5 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Could be the only thing TFS and its' "partners" can agree on is the centrality of selling more DW-T DLC. The CloD code is worthless without TFS to maintain it in saleable condition. The "partners'" challenge is to to get TFS to maintain a saleable, though maybe not very popular product, at bottom dollar compensation. If that is the case a contentious relationship between TFS, its' "partners" and some of its' customers' expectations is inevitable.

 

You talk as if the CLOD source is somehow perishable or requires periodic maintenance. If TFS downed tools now and another key stroke was never entered, the game as it stands would continue to work. The new owners can reap whatever residual sales CLOD generates ad infinitum (future operating system changes perhaps withstanding).

 

But I do see the value in your thought a expressed in other posts re the closed beta requiring SAND CLOD, which in turn creates revenue. Releasing VR free to those with no interest in that theatre generates no income. I see the point.

As for the talk of TFS being "fed up with the situation", perhaps the poster could refer us to evidence of that? I've seen nothing to indicate that is the case. Sure, I can infer that it might be. I could also postulate that there are darker motives behind the silence as others have done. I find it's better to stay grounded in facts, than find myself in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Kintaro, given your penchant for making people happy, maybe you could refund the other unhappy people in this thread, I'd hate to think you didn't do everything you could to help j/k

[343KKT_Kintaro]

51 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

Kintaro, given your penchant for making people happy, maybe you could refund the other unhappy people in this thread, I'd hate to think you didn't do everything you could to help j/k

 

 

I, a 47-year-old grown man, did it for an adolescent who has a condition, still lives at his parents' place and doesn't have a revenu. I did it once, for the reason I explained, and I don't think I'll do it again, I cannot afford as much expenses as, apparently, you imagine. But please, do not stop being ironic, you are much funny this way.

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

If TFS were defunct what entity would be capable of updating CloD code to maintain compatibility with Steam, Steam VR, various HMD's and Windows?

[354thFG_Leifr]

5 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

The situation is, TFS own ATAG so if you are an antagonist or naysayer then they will find it easier to silence you than over here.

I haven't been banned but I know they have wanted to previously. 

Over here threads get locked but it is rare to be banned, usually it's just time off in solitary. 

I should have written "can" be kicked and banned if you aren't happy with the progress. 

 

I was banned from ATAG; mostly for being labelled as a disturber of the peace I suppose, when really I vented the same old frustrations over and over. The final nail in the coffin was daring to suggest that the UI needed changing after that awful Blitz launch. Hilariously, Buzzsaw PM'd me on here to vaguely threaten that he was the 'good cop' keeping 'bad cop' Jason at bay (who apparently desired to nuke this forum of naysayers completely), but I don't know about any of that now. ?

[Mysticpuma]

1 hour ago, Leifr said:

 

I was banned from ATAG; mostly for being labelled as a disturber of the peace I suppose, when really I vented the same old frustrations over and over. The final nail in the coffin was daring to suggest that the UI needed changing after that awful Blitz launch. Hilariously, Buzzsaw PM'd me on here to vaguely threaten that he was the 'good cop' keeping 'bad cop' Jason at bay (who apparently desired to nuke this forum of naysayers completely), but I don't know about any of that now. ?

I've had worse ?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

TFS, TFS, TFS, TFS... the legendary TFS... those very same TFS guys who ban one out of their forum as soon as one is objectively critical... yeah... sure... as objectively critical as some are here in these forums... sure... sure... come on my friends, let's keep being objectively critical... we are in the appropriate place for that, aren't we?

 

 

[354thFG_Leifr]

Well no, not any more... Tencent own Cliffs now, not 1C.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

22 minutes ago, 86th_Leifr said:

Well no, not any more... Tencent own Cliffs now, not 1C.

 

 

Brands and source codes are not the same thing. Some may possess brands, other may possess source codes.

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

What really matters is who collects the Blitz/DLC monies. Wonder what remains after Steam and Fulqrum get their portions. I have no idea how many copies are being sold, but on the Steam forum the most recent post I see is from 02/25/2023.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[Jack_Daniels1983]

By the way, I was one of them, how was the other one? ?

Edited March 3, 2023 by Jack_Daniels1983

[Thundercracker]

3 hours ago, Jack_Daniels1983 said:

By the way, I was one of them, how was the other one? ?

Is that the original clod? 

[Jack_Daniels1983]

17 minutes ago, Thundercracker said:

Is that the original clod? 

I'dont know, maybe this helps. I just a visit the game yesterday for a short time  (and then switched back to DCS)

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

You need to look at Blitz. Old CloD is irrelevant for any statistics. 
 

Not that it makes this whole

situation any better. 
 

But anyways… carry on. 

[Thundercracker]

Thought it was, Blitz's peak is about a third of that ☹️ 

 

Fingers crossed microprose bring back EAW, BoX just doesn't do it for me. 

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

42 minutes ago, Thundercracker said:

Thought it was, Blitz's peak is about a third of that ☹️ 

 

Fingers crossed microprose bring back EAW, BoX just doesn't do it for me. 

No, you are right. I was solely thinking about how many players play the game and what the numbers are currently. 

But back when CloD was the only option, the peak was way higher like you showed. CloD Blitz and DW never came near that. 
 

Same boat here. If CloD continues down this path and eventually gets its burial, I don’t know what I would be flying tbh. 

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

When I play CLOD/Tobruk online in the multiplayer servers, we have on a given night maybe 2-10 players or so. That 10 would be a really "busy" night for multiplayer. This is in the US/Canada evening time period. The weekend events certainly have more people but those are planned events versus just an "average evening" kind of thing. I have maybe 3-4 squad mates who are "VR only" and said, at one point or another, they would like to try it when VR comes out.

 

The good sign, at least for me, is that the more I flew CLOD/Tobruk, the more I was thinking, "actually, this is surprisingly pretty good". I don't foresee VR or 4K turning it into a game with hundreds of people online at once, but I'd like to see it get to the point where we have a server with maybe 30 people on during an "average evening" kind of thing. There's a tipping point where the activity is such that people check in each evening to see what is going on. Below that, and many don't bother.

Edited March 3, 2023 by NO.20_Krispy_Duck

[Mysticpuma]

2 hours ago, NO.20_Krispy_Duck said:

When I play CLOD/Tobruk online in the multiplayer servers, we have on a given night maybe 2-10 players or so. That 10 would be a really "busy" night for multiplayer. This is in the US/Canada evening time period. The weekend events certainly have more people but those are planned events versus just an "average evening" kind of thing. I have maybe 3-4 squad mates who are "VR only" and said, at one point or another, they would like to try it when VR comes out.

 

The good sign, at least for me, is that the more I flew CLOD/Tobruk, the more I was thinking, "actually, this is surprisingly pretty good". I don't foresee VR or 4K turning it into a game with hundreds of people online at once, but I'd like to see it get to the point where we have a server with maybe 30 people on during an "average evening" kind of thing. There's a tipping point where the activity is such that people check in each evening to see what is going on. Below that, and many don't bother.

Thing is, years after it was announced, all we know is that some players have tried a VR beta version. Truesky has been seen in pictures and a very few rare video clips.... and those were months ago. 

 

Announcements of an announcement have been made but ultimately there is and has still been no announcement of 'that' announcement. 

Clod has been in Limbo for at least a year with barely a keystroke typed to indicate any progress. 

I saw on the ATAG forum Salmo was asking players to suggest objects for the FMB. 

11 replies since Feb 2nd.

I would have expected something like that on the TFS FB page, get the community involved. Instead, it's buried away on the ATAG page and yet this page probably has more followers. 

 

Yet the 4700 followers of their page had a last update on January 8th. What a waste! 

 

Anyway in case anyone is interested, here's the link for FMB suggestions. 

 

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36960

 

[Gunfreak]

Well, obviously it's extremely quiet now, most likely because of what ever is happening with the ownership thing. Its a small team of dedicated guys. That might be over their head when dealing with multi billion dollars conglomerates. 

There probably won't be much happening until that is sorted out.

[Dagwoodyt]

43 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Well, obviously it's extremely quiet now, most likely because of what ever is happening with the ownership thing. Its a small team of dedicated guys. That might be over their head when dealing with multi billion dollars conglomerates. 

There probably won't be much happening until that is sorted out.

"Sorting out" might require substantial interruption of a work schedule that is "part time" under best of circumstances. As non-disclosure is in play there is no useful input from "private" beta participants. There is no one to fill the information vacuum. It is of concern that taking on more "private  beta" participants has recently been commited to when previous applications have yet to be processed, while adding new enticement of an exclusive "special surprise" for those who meet all requirements including purchase of DW-T. The most recent update on Speedtree 9.0 seems to date from August 2022. None of this inspires confidence.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[Mysticpuma]

Speculation of the next news from Buzzsaw:

 

"Work continues as normal behind closed doors. Negotiations are still ongoing. We hope to make an announcement soon but that depends on the negotiations. The expected announcement will include a Road map for releasing VR, Truesky, Speed tree and the graphics update as well as a date we will announce where the V6 module will take us. I have mentioned the FW-190 before, also that we hope/would like to have a P51A. I also note discussions on the forum about the Typhoon (car door model) which has been speculated on. Time will tell if your thoughts have any credence ?

We are testing Truesky, VR and the graphics update internally, there are still a few issues which we hope to resolve soon as we would like to release this sooner rather than later. 

VR is proving challenging with a new internal open beta being worked on (we have different levels of access in TFS and all members can now test the latest build) we hope to give access to the current community beta testers soon but this depends on how things go.

To the community members who have applied for beta access, I apologise for not getting in touch with you but I have lots going on behind close doors so when we announce the next round of open beta testing I will supply an email address to contact rather than PM me as I often don't have time to visit two forums and read my messages. 

The email address can be monitored by multiple people so your request won't go unanswered. 

Ultimately TFS apologise for not keeping regular commentary, news and updates with our community. You are obviously very important to us and the lifeblood for what the future will hold. We are a small team and while the flight sim community and especially Cliffs of Dover, have fallen away, we are dedicated to releasing this update as soon as humanely possible. 

The team acknowledge we can and should be much more open about progress, after all, the main reason there are still a few of you reading these forums is that you are passionate and dedicated about what the future holds for our software, we will try to do much better. 

 

Ultimately we thank you for sticking with the project, without you, anything we release becomes pointless. We still aim to keep the dream alive, bare with us, we are working on it ? "

 

Something humble like that would be nice to read. 

Cheers, MP

[Dagwoodyt]

On 3/1/2023 at 9:51 PM, Mysticpuma said:

Although it has been mentioned, this is the last official comment I can see from Buzzsaw on the ATAG forums on Feb 14th

There seems a difference in content between these posts, both appearing to bear the same date. In your screenshot it seems that TFS will potentially choose which applications it accepts into the "private" beta. The second screenshot, from this forum, seems much more inclusive and references a "special surprise". References to "business matter/details" could simply be a euphemism for "I won't be taking calls for a while." and doesn't necessarily involve anyone beyond the Team itself.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[FurphyForum]

@Mysticpuma Didn't know you had access to Buzz's draft email.....  You know him too well as the recitation sounds almost to the tee.

 

I'll LMAO if he copies and paste your version as his reply..

[simfan2015]

Those negotiations ... telling.

To me, personally, it became clear by now that the 'patience' they ask for is probably to postpone ... an inevitable decision !

 

[Mysticpuma]

6 hours ago, FurphyForum said:

@Mysticpuma Didn't know you had access to Buzz's draft email.....  You know him too well as the recitation sounds almost to the tee.

 

I'll LMAO if he copies and paste your version as his reply..

I did think that could be a possibility ?

 

(but he would have to visit the forum to see it first ?)

Edited March 6, 2023 by Mysticpuma

[No.54_Reddog]

18 hours ago, FurphyForum said:

@Mysticpuma Didn't know you had access to Buzz's draft email.....  You know him too well as the recitation sounds almost to the tee.

 

I'll LMAO if he copies and paste your version as his reply..

 

There are a couple of phrases in there that I don't think we will ever hear Buzzsaw say somehow.

[BigC208]

I’m still waiting patiently on the sidelines with my money waiting for the addition of VR. Only times I’m not flying VR these days is when having technical difficulties so no need to buy until it’s actually done. I used to just buy to support development but burned my fingers a few times with that approach. 

[simfan2015]

28 minutes ago, BigC208 said:

waiting patiently on the sidelines with my money

Patience is a virtue and may be sorely needed in this case.

The good side though is that this money in your pocket ... won't leave it anytime soon !

There is a saying that No News is Good News ... if only I could believe it.

[Blitzen]

You know what they say : "If I told you,I'd have to...."