So, TFS busy with important business, etc, etc

[Mysticpuma]

Well as there is nothing to talk about and nothing being discussed... let's throw wild speculation out there while we wait for any news of any deals. 

 

Currently TFS only have access to the source code.... leased if you will. 

 

I wonder if the reason for such long and protracted delays on updates... could they be looking to buy the Source Code instead? 

 

Just punting it out there... as we wait for news ?

[Dagwoodyt]

If there is a high ratio of requests for admission to the private beta to copies of DW-T being sold, the private beta may be now considered a revenue generator for DW-T with a need to exist into the foreseeable future.

[Enceladus828]

The relationship between 1C and TFS was good and any news on new installments would be announced once everything necessary was ready to be shown. But when Jason left and CloD was sold to Fulqrum, Fulqrum could decide not to continue after they release the Visual Update Package.

 

I know it’s frustrating and we’ve had to wait longer than we hoped for. I mean, the guys at IL-2 GBs aren’t fairing any better, it’s been almost 6 months since BoN was released and the new installment still hasn’t been announced.

[354thFG_Leifr]

Dead.

[Dagwoodyt]

Last time I checked DW-T sells for $50 U.S. on Steam, five times the price of Blitz. From a business standpoint new DW-T sales are essential. Certainly there are individuals willing to purchase DW-T if they have been assured eventual access to the private beta. 

[FurphyForum]

Ok here's one WILD SPECULATION for you; (you do know we'll blame you if it happens. @Mysticpuma) ? Since the handover/ takeover and certain keys pers leaving and/or moving to elevated roles, maybe the new owners have stated internally to TF pers to 'wrap up what you're doing and finish it by X-date' as the project isn't being supported and it will officially end under our company business name.......?‍♂️

 

Remember it's just speculation as per the topic.

[Avimimus]

Well, my speculation is simple: Given the slowed pace of updates on Great Battles - now would be an excellent time to make some kind of announcement... even a few teasers. It might draw in some fans who've overlooked Desert Wings.

[DD_Arthur]

5 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Well, my speculation is simple: Given the slowed pace of updates on Great Battles - now would be an excellent time to make some kind of announcement... even a few teasers. 

You mean an announcement about an announcement, with a wink and a hint that implies something might be just around the corner?

 

What a great idea! Surprised no one from TFS has done that before…..

[Dagwoodyt]

 

9 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Well, my speculation is simple: Given the slowed pace of updates on Great Battles - now would be an excellent time to make some kind of announcement... even a few teasers. It might draw in some fans who've overlooked Desert Wings.

For private beta inductees there is this:

 

"Those who have bought the TOBRUK DLC in hopes they will get access... you will... please have patience.

 

When we do open it, there will also be a special surprise, which is not present in the current version, which should get people's interest.   ?"

 

As of February 14 there is the above announcement without  equivocation!

Edited February 23, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[Blitzen]

On 2/23/2023 at 3:24 AM, Dagwoodyt said:

 

For private beta inductees there is this:

 

"Those who have bought the TOBRUK DLC in hopes they will get access... you will... please have patience.

 

When we do open it, there will also be a special surprise, which is not present in the current version, which should get people's interest.   ?"

 

As of February 14 there is the above announcement without  equivocation!

Special surprise...oh boy!!!

[Dagwoodyt]

My understanding is that as of this Valentine's Day ❤️ private beta access is promised to everyone who buys the DLC in hope of gaining private beta access. If it has taken literally months to get acknowledgement of private beta requests before now how much will response timeline lengthen if everyone who now buys the DLC does so based on this promise? I guess the private beta isn't going away any time soon.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[the_finkinator69]

My best guess is that clod as it stands right now is not a money maker for Fulcrum or 1C or whoever owns the rights now. Tfs has probably had a hard time getting their work in front of superiors for approval. That’s the delay.

 

For the special surprise, obviously VR access would be ideal, but I hope it’s a career mode.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by the_finkinator69

[Dagwoodyt]

48 minutes ago, the_finkinator69 said:

 

For the special surprise, obviously VR access would be ideal, but I hope it’s a career mode.

 

 

My understanding is that the "special surprise" will appear only for testing in an upcoming private beta build. Not so? ?

[Dagwoodyt]

3 hours ago, Blitzen said:

Special surprise...oh boy!!!

"In" maybe?

 

[Feldgrun]

I wonder if the announcements/teasers, including new a new module and VR, might have indirectly hurt TFS's chances to buy the source code. If new developments will spike interest in this game and generate revenue, why would the owner of the code want to sell it? If it appears dead, with nothing on the horizon, that's the time to buy/sell it. TFS's silence and inaction may be their best choice if they want to buy and further develop this game.

[No.54_Reddog]

11 minutes ago, Feldgrun said:

I wonder if the announcements/teasers, including new a new module and VR, might have indirectly hurt TFS's chances to buy the source code. If new developments will spike interest in this game and generate revenue, why would the owner of the code want to sell it? If it appears dead, with nothing on the horizon, that's the time to buy/sell it. TFS's silence and inaction may be their best choice if they want to buy and further develop this game.

 

So the strategy is to make the existing player base lose interest and disappear ?? Mission accomplished?

[Dagwoodyt]

 

1 hour ago, Feldgrun said:

I wonder if the announcements/teasers, including new a new module and VR, might have indirectly hurt TFS's chances to buy the source code. If new developments will spike interest in this game and generate revenue, why would the owner of the code want to sell it? If it appears dead, with nothing on the horizon, that's the time to buy/sell it. TFS's silence and inaction may be their best choice if they want to buy and further develop this game.

At this point the imperative is clearly to pull new sales out of the existing DW-T rather than of putting new money in. Lawyers fees might cost $1000.00 per hour. That seems a daunting financial risk.

[Jack_Daniels1983]

On 2/26/2023 at 12:27 AM, Dagwoodyt said:

 

At this point the imperative is clearly to pull new sales out of the existing DW-T rather than of putting new money in. Lawyers fees might cost $1000.00 per hour. That seems a daunting financial risk.

 

If this is the imperative, I hope it backfired. Because at the moment they sell it with just a promises that hasn't been fulfilled till now.

[Jack_Daniels1983]

On 2/25/2023 at 11:11 PM, No.54_Reddog said:

 

So the strategy is to make the existing player base lose interest and disappear ?? Mission accomplished?

If that was their plan, they did a great job. Team Fusion announced an official event on Twitter and 34 pilots are taking part (Rest of the servers are empty).

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Jack_Daniels1983

[No.54_Reddog]

Advertised on Twitter? Excellent. Looks like they've given up with the ex-official forum then. Maybe that was the plan? Leave all the problematic posters and their difficult holding them to account questions here and go off to enjoy the adulation of the (very small) masses?

[OBT-Eazy]

25 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

Advertised on Twitter? Excellent. Looks like they've given up with the ex-official forum then. Maybe that was the plan? Leave all the problematic posters and their difficult holding them to account questions here and go off to enjoy the adulation of the (very small) masses?

By the way, it was a good event with a lot of fun.
You need to try, one day, instead of spit your venom.

Edited February 27, 2023 by OBT-Eazy

[Jack_Daniels1983]

10 minutes ago, OBT-Eazy said:

By the way, it was a good event with a lot of fun.
You need to try, one day, instead of spit your venom.

I will one day, when truesky, 4k and VR available.

And in terms of spit venom, TF's communication is the poison here that made people toxic by the time.

It is not surprising that after this long time people have lost patience and become salty.

Remember, after you've paid ~$50 for a promise, then excuses, then nothing, maybe people aren't in the best mood?

[No.54_Reddog]

9 hours ago, OBT-Eazy said:

By the way, it was a good event with a lot of fun.
You need to try, one day, instead of spit your venom.

 

Oh my bad, I expected it to be in announcements like their previous missions.

 

 

[Mysticpuma]

I think the awkward part here is that TFS have said this is the official forum as they are aligned with 1C, but now they aren't selling CloD through 1C/Tencent or whoever now owns them, they no longer have an interest to be here, apart from the fact they can't announce anything without their 'partners' concent. 

 

I have to assume their lack of any official updates, news, interaction is because they aren't interested in being here and are falling back to ATAG forums to give any news and updates (although there is nothing there either). 

 

I think it's a sad reflection on the state of the project that in a team of (we are led to believe) approx. 40(ish) members, not one is able to make any effort to make contact with their most active forum (here) to give any update..... other than at the start of January to say "we hope" to give an update in a few weeks...... and a few weeks later we are no further forward and still hoping. 

 

Let's hope this is cryptic and the constant use of 'hope' is the middle word of the next update "Faith, Hope and Charity" for a Malta expansion. 

 

So what do we see now. 

The most active members of the forums are the reported "antagonists" and "haters". I disagree. We are the most passionate! We are still here after all the tumbleweed has blown past, still here after all the finger pointing at "how dare we ask questions", still here to called out for wanting information, still here daring to ask for news (like we have for years) and being called out for daring to put pressure on TFS, still here waiting for an update about the next module, promoted as being announced in May 2022, delayed and hoped to be announced 'soon', and nearly a year later after it was announced that the v6.0 module was being announced, still no announcement.... yet those who ask get ridiculed for asking what is actually happening. 

 

Literally all we know about the next update is it will include a FW190 and that was announced 2 years ago. Comments from the team indicate a Typhoon and maybe a P51A.... maybe, maybe, maybe..... 

 

At the end of the day, no matter your love or despair at the information given to the community, it IS fair to say, progress has been glacial, interaction with the community has been pathetic and the player base has fallen away (it was never big but now it's microscopic, look at the last TFS announced event... 37 players turned up). 

 

There has to be a point of no return and in the flat stall that CloD has been in for the last year (few years) with no-one appearing to be at the controls, even if the the much touted but now considered 'mythical' graphics, VR and Truesky update is ever released, there is no way back for CloD. 

The project is dead. 

 

The last legion of followers will show an interest if anything is ever released, we so called 'haters' will be there, not to hate, but to salute the passing of an old friend who we have been there with throughout the ups and many downs, but ultimately it will just be a curiousity, nothing more. The sadness here is everyone who still visits this forum knows just what this could have been had 1C not pulled the plug on Oleg Maddox..... all we have now is fond memories of a once great game, modded then officially taken over by TFS and now it's life support machine is running out of power...... how long it will be before the plug is pulled 'who knows', but currently CloD appears to be in a Comatose state and with little sign of activity or life, why would anyone keep the power on?

 

 

Just the ramblings of a passionate follower of the project, watching as it passes away and it appears no matter how much you hold the hand of it, shout at it for any response...... it lays there in its bed, unresponsive, unable to move and ultimately the finger hovers over the switch as the last rites are passed. 

 

Salute old friend. 

 

MP

[354thFG_Leifr]

12 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

Advertised on Twitter? Excellent. Looks like they've given up with the ex-official forum then. Maybe that was the plan? Leave all the problematic posters and their difficult holding them to account questions here and go off to enjoy the adulation of the (very small) masses?

 

Retreat back in to ATAG, sounds familiar.

Sure happy I was permanently banned from that place for suggesting the UI needed overhauling.

 

It's a joke really, and a sad one at that. The Storm of War campaigns are still some of the best gaming experiences I've had, and still the best flight simulation experience - sharing in that with 127 other people, or however many it was, was a true delight. I had some hope that the pace would pick up with the acquisition of the source code but it seems that TF are lost down the rabbithole of VR and some other... things? Who knows, we certainly don't, it's all a bit murky to be honest. I wouldn't be surprised to see the plug pulled on Cliffs soon, especially with the transfer to Tencent.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Leifr

[Jack_Daniels1983]

5 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

I think the awkward part here is that TFS have said this is the official forum as they are aligned with 1C, but now they aren't selling CloD through 1C/Tencent or whoever now owns them, they no longer have an interest to be here, apart from the fact they can't announce anything without their 'partners' concent. 

 

I have to assume their lack of any official updates, news, interaction is because they aren't interested in being here and are falling back to ATAG forums to give any news and updates (although there is nothing there either). 

 

I think it's a sad reflection on the state of the project that in a team of (we are led to believe) approx. 40(ish) members, not one is able to make any effort to make contact with their most active forum (here) to give any update..... other than at the start of January to say "we hope" to give an update in a few weeks...... and a few weeks later we are no further forward and still hoping. 

 

Let's hope this is cryptic and the constant use of 'hope' is the middle word of the next update "Faith, Hope and Charity" for a Malta expansion. 

 

So what do we see now. 

The most active members of the forums are the reported "antagonists" and "haters". I disagree. We are the most passionate! We are still here after all the tumbleweed has blown past, still here after all the finger pointing at "how dare we ask questions", still here to called out for wanting information, still here daring to ask for news (like we have for years) and being called out for daring to put pressure on TFS, still here waiting for an update about the next module, promoted as being announced in May 2022, delayed and hoped to be announced 'soon', and nearly a year later after it was announced that the v6.0 module was being announced, still no announcement.... yet those who ask get ridiculed for asking what is actually happening. 

 

Literally all we know about the next update is it will include a FW190 and that was announced 2 years ago. Comments from the team indicate a Typhoon and maybe a P51A.... maybe, maybe, maybe..... 

 

At the end of the day, no matter your love or despair at the information given to the community, it IS fair to say, progress has been glacial, interaction with the community has been pathetic and the player base has fallen away (it was never big but now it's microscopic, look at the last TFS announced event... 37 players turned up). 

 

There has to be a point of no return and in the flat stall that CloD has been in for the last year (few years) with no-one appearing to be at the controls, even if the the much touted but now considered 'mythical' graphics, VR and Truesky update is ever released, there is no way back for CloD. 

The project is dead. 

 

The last legion of followers will show an interest if anything is ever released, we so called 'haters' will be there, not to hate, but to salute the passing of an old friend who we have been there with throughout the ups and many downs, but ultimately it will just be a curiousity, nothing more. The sadness here is everyone who still visits this forum knows just what this could have been had 1C not pulled the plug on Oleg Maddox..... all we have now is fond memories of a once great game, modded then officially taken over by TFS and now it's life support machine is running out of power...... how long it will be before the plug is pulled 'who knows', but currently CloD appears to be in a Comatose state and with little sign of activity or life, why would anyone keep the power on?

 

 

Just the ramblings of a passionate follower of the project, watching as it passes away and it appears no matter how much you hold the hand of it, shout at it for any response...... it lays there in its bed, unresponsive, unable to move and ultimately the finger hovers over the switch as the last rites are passed. 

 

Salute old friend. 

 

MP

 

Not to forget that they advertise the update on the official Steam page. I don't want to know how many buyers feel ripped off here. I also bought it based on the VR-promises and I call products where "purchase relevant" content is not delivered a SCAM.

 

Despite i purchased the game+DLC and own VR, I wasn't selected for the beta (that for the subject of buying the DLC to take part in the beta, you don't even get a rejection so you don't buy the DLC to get access, you buy the DLC to get a maybe chance to get an access).

Also. because I wrote to Buzz via this forum, I could see that the e-mail was never opened

I also find it embarrassing to treat the community like this and then, with less success, beg for donations. With a contribution margin of only 80%, I don't worry about being decried as a hater. The few people who claim that don't even manage to finance a server together.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Jack_Daniels1983

[Dagwoodyt]

Whether TFS has exited this forum or not does not matter if the Visual Update isn't coming either way.   ?
 

[Jack_Daniels1983]

20 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Whether TFS has exited this forum or not does not matter if the Visual Update isn't coming either way.   ?
 

 

I can't agree with that, after all this is the first destination (besides Steam) that players who are interessted in CLOD end up at.

Because as I said, the visual update is advertised on Steam.

By the way, I am still amazed at the positive rating of Tobruk on Steam. The community seems to be very resilient.

It might help if the steam-rating falls into the negative, so that TF feels compelled to take a stand. I know, not gentleman styl but do you see an other way to get them to talk with us without making excuses, hoping and daring guesses. Because honestly, when was the last time something substantial came from Buzz?

Edited February 28, 2023 by Jack_Daniels1983

[Dagwoodyt]

I feel comfortable navigating reviews. It is only the substance of a review that I look at. If there is little substance I tend to disregard whether + or -.

Even if this forum is about to sunset, the Steam forum is still available. Questions can still be asked on that forum if they are polite and substantive. I don't understand what could possibly be gained by registering for the ATAG forum.

[Jack_Daniels1983]

20 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I feel comfortable navigating reviews. It is only the substance of a review that I look at. If there is little substance I tend to disregard whether + or -.

Even if this forum is about to sunset, the Steam forum is still available. Questions can still be asked on that forum if they are polite and substantive. I don't understand what could possibly be gained by registering for the ATAG forum.

 

Regarding the Reviews, if they had warned me, I wouldn't have spent any money for the game  (or I have overseen the warnings).

 

The Steam Forum of "European Air Wars" ist also still available, but that does not indicate support and further developing of a game

 

Regarding the ATAG Forum, I don't understand too..

[Hoots]

TFs really need to step away from the ATAG forum, it just makes them seem dreadfully amateur as it's just a page set up by some players. it may have changed but they were a touchy lot too.

[Jack_Daniels1983]

2 minutes ago, Hoots said:

TFs really need to step away from the ATAG forum, it just makes them seem dreadfully amateur as it's just a page set up by some players. it may have changed but they were a touchy lot too.

 

Their whole demeanor and way of communicating makes them seem like dreadfully amateurs. The ATAG-forum is the smallest problem in my eyes.

[No.54_Reddog]

1 hour ago, Hoots said:

TFs really need to step away from the ATAG forum, it just makes them seem dreadfully amateur as it's just a page set up by some players. it may have changed but they were a touchy lot too.

 

TFS bought ATAG from it's original owner(s). But separating the amateur from the corporate, the modder from the paid developer, that's a tricky prospect.

[Jack_Daniels1983]

5 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

 

TFS bought ATAG from it's original owner(s). But separating the amateur from the corporate, the modder from the paid developer, that's a tricky prospect.

But you agree that they can't offer a game on Steam for $50 (under their/team name) and then still claim to be an amateur modder, right?

Edited February 28, 2023 by Jack_Daniels1983

[Hoots]

10 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

 

TFS bought ATAG from it's original owner(s). But separating the amateur from the corporate, the modder from the paid developer, that's a tricky prospect.

Didn't know that, odd choice in my book.

[Spook109]

I own both titles and bought Tobruk on the promise that VR was coming with a Summer 2022 ETA. Lord knows I can deal with delays (I fly DCS) but all I ask is for some clear communication from the dev. What do they have social media for if not to communicate with their customer base?

 

I contacted Buzzsaw several times, via several different methods, requesting beta access and received no response. When I've asked about VR on Facebook, I've been shouted down and told I'm "entitled".

 

Apparently, the $100+ I paid wasn't a "purchase", it was a donation - given freely and without expectations.

 

I'll spend my time in BoX, BMS, and DCS. If someone asks me about Cliffs, I'll tell them it has been a disappointment and I'd recommend they look elsewhere for their VR combat sim'ing. ☹️

[Jack_Daniels1983]

2 hours ago, I./JG3_Spook109 said:

I own both titles and bought Tobruk on the promise that VR was coming with a Summer 2022 ETA. Lord knows I can deal with delays (I fly DCS) but all I ask is for some clear communication from the dev. What do they have social media for if not to communicate with their customer base?

 

I contacted Buzzsaw several times, via several different methods, requesting beta access and received no response. When I've asked about VR on Facebook, I've been shouted down and told I'm "entitled".

 

Apparently, the $100+ I paid wasn't a "purchase", it was a donation - given freely and without expectations.

 

I'll spend my time in BoX, BMS, and DCS. If someone asks me about Cliffs, I'll tell them it has been a disappointment and I'd recommend they look elsewhere for their VR combat sim'ing. ☹️

 

Absolut same situation like me. Also purchased in Summer 2022 with same expectations and the same outcome. Never received any response. As said in an other tweet, I saw that my message was not even read by Buzz. After several contact tries, I deleted the messages life with the disappointment about Buzz and TF and played DCS, BMS, BOX and WOTR. But time to time I'll come back, with hope....

[Livai]

19 hours ago, I./JG3_Spook109 said:

I ask is for some clear communication from the dev.

 

Clear communication? - do you only play these games, then I understand that you still believe in clear communications.

 

I play more games and what I always hear are excuses or everything is quiet on the developer front + every critical statement will be deleted even if you are right. 

As example how clear communication sounds in other games when you have bad performance = "We made the game for future cards" but when my 4090 can't run it what future card can?"

 

---> Now back to IL-2. TFS said they finish what they already said......................

[Feldgrun]

STEAMCHARTS    An ongoing analysis of Steam's concurrent players.

 

IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Blitz

Month	Avg. Players	Gain	% Gain	Peak Players
Last 30 Days	22.4	-0.5	-2.11%	74
February 2023	22.9	-6.1	-21.00%	74

 

I'll give $100 for the source code & rights to the franchise. Maybe they'll take me up on the offer. 

 

In reality, I hope TFS can scrape together some cash to make a realistic offer to buy this game. Regardless, with or without them, the game is slowly dying.

[Jack_Daniels1983]

7 hours ago, Feldgrun said:

STEAMCHARTS    An ongoing analysis of Steam's concurrent players.

 

IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Blitz

Month	Avg. Players	Gain	% Gain	Peak Players
Last 30 Days	22.4	-0.5	-2.11%	74
February 2023	22.9	-6.1	-21.00%	74

 

I'll give $100 for the source code & rights to the franchise. Maybe they'll take me up on the offer. 

 

In reality, I hope TFS can scrape together some cash to make a realistic offer to buy this game. Regardless, with or without them, the game is slowly dying.

A game with only 76 players smells already like dead, the 76 are more like mourners or gravediggers who accompany it on the last way.

So sad