Best VR

[Ken5421]

Hi

 

I'm currently using HeadTracker

 

I'm thinking of making move to a VR headset. My rig good enough to run it

 

What is best suggested make to buy?

 

Any thoughts from people that have made the change? Good / Bad ??

 

Thanks,

 

Ken

[TimSell75]

HP Reverb G2 currently

 

Pimax Crystal might become the new hero if it proves to be functioning and with deep pockets available

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

1 hour ago, Ken5421 said:

Hi

 

I'm currently using HeadTracker

 

I'm thinking of making move to a VR headset. My rig good enough to run it

 

What is best suggested make to buy?

 

Any thoughts from people that have made the change? Good / Bad ??

 

Thanks,

 

Ken

The Varjo Aero is the best for image quality, that is currently available, but you need deep pockets.

The HP Reverb G2 would be my choice if just starting with VR, especially if you pick it up on sale.

Some other contenders are still in the development stage and will be discussed in detail, on this forum, when available.

VR is amazing IMO. 

[BMA_West]

Also using HP Reverb G2 ;

[Todt_Von_Oben]

Ken, I was in the same situation as you about a year and a half ago.  I'd been flying an Oculus Rift CV1 and heard there were better alternatives to the "screen door effect" that headset has.  Most people recommended the HP G2.  I bought one and I like it better than the Rift.  Better graphic quality; very little screen door at all.

 

I'm driving it with an RTX 3080ti and it works great! 

 

My only gripe is a minor one: the maximum adjustable focal width is only 68 mm and my face is 70 mm wide.  It's a little tight but I make do with it.

 

Before the G2 I bought a Pimax but sent it back because I found it big, bulky, and (even with the wide screen view) not all of it is in focus.  Having flown both, I like the G2 much better than the Pimax.

 

I also bought my wife an Oculus Quest 2.  The image is better than the CV1 but still not quite as good as the G2, IMOHO.

 

I'm always trying to make my rig better and will buy a better headset when one becomes available.  But so far I haven't found one that beats the G2 for performance and price.  Most folks I communicated with said it's the bang-for-buck favorite and I agreed with them.  No post-purchase regrets.

 

Flight-sim technologies have gone from mouse-and-keyboard to twist-sticks; joy sticks and pedals, TIR, and now 3D.  For me, this is better than anything I ever imagined as a young boy playing with my plastic Steve Canyon Jet Fighter Helmet.  ?

 

Virtual Reality isn't for everyone (what is?) but I'll never go back to 2D again.  For me, 2D is like sitting at a computer; VR is much more like being in an airplane and that's what appeals most to me.. 

 

I think 2D does have some advantages in Multi Player (better range of vision) so if your focus is game longevity and a string of kills online, VR might not be for you.  There's a lot to be said for 2D; it's a lot of fun and I've enjoyed it myself.   I have no "VR bias" against 2D; it's great as far as it goes.

 

But if your looking for something that more closely approximates the experience of flying an airplane or helicopter, it's VR all the way.

 

Prosit! 

 

ADNOTE: RAAFSteve's comment caused me to look at the Varjo Aero.  I like the automatic interpupillary adjustment; it's even wider than I need.  Everything else sounds better than my G2, too.  Thinking about springing for one.  Want to watch some Youtube comparisons first, though.  But I am really inclined to do this.

 

Film at eleven...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Todt_Von_Oben

[TheSNAFU]

I think the first thing to ask yourself is how much do you plan to spend? Then how much horsepower does your pc have? The Areo is by all reports the top of the line for sim vr but it is wildly expensive. In the mid range it’s probably the reverb g2 with maybe the Pico 4 a bit behind that. Q2 is a fine starter headset. I have the g2 having come from the q2. It’s a great trouble free headset at a reasonable price. 

Edited January 29, 2023 by TheSNAFU

[Todt_Von_Oben]

I read up on it; studied some comparisons.  I decided to keep flying my G2.

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

9 hours ago, Todt_Von_Oben said:

I read up on it; studied some comparisons.  I decided to keep flying my G2.

It is good to be doing research to see what is on the market and the HP G2 is still a very good VR headset.

I, however had a lot of fogging issues with it and an unexpected bonus with the Varjo was the inclusion of a  heat extraction fan that resolved the fogging issue and improved longer session overall comfort.

Hopefully some of the higher end VR headsets, still IMO in development phase, can deliver on what they are promising so more high end options are available.
 

[Ken5421]

On 1/29/2023 at 3:39 AM, Todt_Von_Oben said:

Ken, I was in the same situation as you about a year and a half ago.  I'd been flying an Oculus Rift CV1 and heard there were better alternatives to the "screen door effect" that headset has.  Most people recommended the HP G2.  I bought one and I like it better than the Rift.  Better graphic quality; very little screen door at all.

 

I'm driving it with an RTX 3080ti and it works great! 

 

My only gripe is a minor one: the maximum adjustable focal width is only 68 mm and my face is 70 mm wide.  It's a little tight but I make do with it.

 

Before the G2 I bought a Pimax but sent it back because I found it big, bulky, and (even with the wide screen view) not all of it is in focus.  Having flown both, I like the G2 much better than the Pimax.

 

I also bought my wife an Oculus Quest 2.  The image is better than the CV1 but still not quite as good as the G2, IMOHO.

 

I'm always trying to make my rig better and will buy a better headset when one becomes available.  But so far I haven't found one that beats the G2 for performance and price.  Most folks I communicated with said it's the bang-for-buck favorite and I agreed with them.  No post-purchase regrets.

 

Flight-sim technologies have gone from mouse-and-keyboard to twist-sticks; joy sticks and pedals, TIR, and now 3D.  For me, this is better than anything I ever imagined as a young boy playing with my plastic Steve Canyon Jet Fighter Helmet.  ?

 

Virtual Reality isn't for everyone (what is?) but I'll never go back to 2D again.  For me, 2D is like sitting at a computer; VR is much more like being in an airplane and that's what appeals most to me.. 

 

I think 2D does have some advantages in Multi Player (better range of vision) so if your focus is game longevity and a string of kills online, VR might not be for you.  There's a lot to be said for 2D; it's a lot of fun and I've enjoyed it myself.   I have no "VR bias" against 2D; it's great as far as it goes.

 

But if your looking for something that more closely approximates the experience of flying an airplane or helicopter, it's VR all the way.

 

Prosit! 

 

ADNOTE: RAAFSteve's comment caused me to look at the Varjo Aero.  I like the automatic interpupillary adjustment; it's even wider than I need.  Everything else sounds better than my G2, too.  Thinking about springing for one.  Want to watch some Youtube comparisons first, though.  But I am really inclined to do this.

 

Film at eleven...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated to you and everyone that commented. I think bottom line for me is realism is key. Like I find TAW server hard. Very difficult to survive when flying alone. But when you make a kill or just land safely it feels great. Same with VR. If it makes it more realistic then that is what I want to do. I remember trying Head Tracker for the first time years ago. Took some getting used to as I was used to a non moving fixed point. But once I was used to it could never imagine changing back. I feel like I now need to take on VR  

[WIS-Redcoat]

I have been using the aero for a year and I simply adore it, but unless money is no object, I suggest you get the G2.  It’s a sold headset and cheap.  I don’t know of any other new headsets being released in the next 6 months to change that opinion.

 

 

[chiliwili69]

VR is very personal. I would say (just based on my experience) that 10-15% of people would not like VR when they tried.

 

I don´t concieve a Flight Sim (or space, or Race) without VR. It is the difference between looking at the scene from a window or being in the scene.

 

Deciding what VR device to buy in 2023 is a difficult question. It would help if you give some details:

- What are your PC specs (CPU, RAM, GPU)?

- What is your budget for the VR device?

- would you also upgrade your PC if required?

- Do you prefer resolution over FOV?

- Do you want to buy it now or would wait 2-6 months? (there are new devices in 2023)

 

My advice would be that you go to a simple solution (low budget or second hand) to test the water in VR. Then if you like it, and you know the relevance of your preferences (Resolution, FOV, clarity, etc) you can then go to a more expensive device.

 

Also you should know that there are two main categories in the market:

 

- With DisplayPort Cable: So image is not compressed (G2, Aero, Index, VivePro2, Pimax8KX, and  future Crystal, Meganex, Pimax 12K, SomniumVR1

- Without DisplayPort Cable: So image has to be compressed to be transmitted via USB cable or Wifi (Quest2, Pico4, Vive XR Elite, Quest Pro ...)

 

Also, there are two ways to do the tracking of your head:

- With External basestations: They require to be installed in your room, (normally 2 basestations, but for seated games 1 is enough)

- Without external basestations (using cameras of the device)

 

The resolution of each device is this. 

 

 

I have been trying most of the VR devices, here you have my impressions:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/67855-valve-index-vs-reverb-g2-my-view-with-through-the-lens-pictures/

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/72532-my-final-verdict-vivepro2-vs-index/

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/81247-pico4-vs-index-vs-monitor4kfullhd-through-the-lens-pictures/

 

So, depeding on what GPU you have, I would recomend to buy a second hand G2, or Quest2 or Index(without controllers) just to take the red pill. And if you like it there is no return.

Edited January 31, 2023 by chiliwili69

[dburne]

HP Reverb G2.

[HansBlitz]

Recently I just switched from a using a Rift CV1 for years, to a HP Reverb G2. I've been quite happen with the G2. Enough so that I wish I'd made that switch sooner.

[spreckair]

I started with an Oculus Rift S, then very quickly switched to the G2 which was like going from an impressionist painting to a photograph.  I have been happily using the G2 exclusively for IL-2 for about two years now, and while it is not without limitations that are well discussed on this forum, it is still close enough for me to being in a cockpit.  I will eventually switch, but not until the VR headset market produces a G2-like headset with pancake lenses (hopefully a "G3"), and I will be happy with my G2 until this happens at a nice price.

[Drano]

Quite happy with my G2 after upgrading from a RiftS. The only thing that bothers me is the cable, which has a tendency to just go bad for no apparent reason. And the lack of available affordable replacements for it. Other than that, it's great.

[slikslik]

chiliwili provided you a great list of VR headsets.  He also asked you a few very good questions.  Your budget is first thing to consider.  Is a wide FOV a must for Flight sims like IL 2?   I believe it is. I have the Pimax 8kx.  I  started VR with the Rift S, but I just can't stand that binocular or looking down a tunnel effect with a smaller FOV.  In my opinion, the Pimax series headsets are first choice for a truer VR experience when in a Flight or Race sim.  The DMAS 8kx can be had  {without controllers} for about $1400.00 to $1500.00 us.   Keep in mind, the 8kx is my opinion only.   Others here are OK with a G2 size FOV, but If they had a chance to try a Pimax, I'm betting they would change their mind.  

[jollyjack]

Just curious; been reading that HP is going to abandon VR ...

https://uploadvr.com/rumor-hp-reverb-g2-exiting-vr/

 

PS what's the difference between the reverb G2 and the reverb G2 v2?

[TheSNAFU]

47 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

PS what's the difference between the reverb G2 and the reverb G2 v2?

 
The differences are the display port cable, improved face mask that added more fov and better camera tracking. The v2 cable resolved connection problems with the original cable. 

[jollyjack]

Got two Display ports already occupied on my 3080; any other connection possibilities?

Connect it to a monitors extension slot maybe?

[TheSNAFU]

The g2 uses display port. 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

I don't love my G2, but it's been a pretty decent headset. I can't wait for wireless tech to be mainstream. The G2's size, weight, and heat that it generates are my biggest peeves. My Rift S was much more comfortable, but the G2 looks worlds better through the lens, despite the poor FOV.

Edited February 4, 2023 by drewm3i-VR

[Ken5421]

On 1/30/2023 at 9:27 PM, WIS-Redcoat said:

I have been using the aero for a year and I simply adore it, but unless money is no object, I suggest you get the G2.  It’s a sold headset and cheap.  I don’t know of any other new headsets being released in the next 6 months to change that opinion.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated

[jollyjack]

Field of view, seems that that's important IMO. I only tried a VR set holding my phone once; was like looking through a binoculars all the time ...

Went for a trackIR5 then.

 

Still i don't get how f.i  with a reverb G2 one has access to the many keyboard functions needed during gameplay when you're ' blindfolded' .

Alas i don't know someone in my area using a VR set.

[kissTheSky]

3 hours ago, jollyjack said:

Field of view, seems that that's important IMO. I only tried a VR set holding my phone once; was like looking through a binoculars all the time ...

Went for a trackIR5 then.

 

Still i don't get how f.i  with a reverb G2 one has access to the many keyboard functions needed during gameplay when you're ' blindfolded' .

Alas i don't know someone in my area using a VR set.

If one doesn’t have enough buttons on the stick/throttle, some add a button box. Some use voice attack (free= 10 commands, $10=full license, IIRC).
Basic keyboard functions (esc, function keys etc) become a muscle memory type of thing like typing without looking. And when you really need the keyboard you can use “flashlight” type of functions (for G2, for example, you say “flashlight on” and position tracking cameras go into pass through mode and show you outside world. The image is low resolution, monochrome, and grainy, but it works.).

13 hours ago, drewm3i-VR said:

I don't love my G2, but it's been a pretty decent headset. I can't wait for wireless tech to be mainstream. The G2's size, weight, and heat that it generates are my biggest peeves. My Rift S was much more comfortable, but the G2 looks worlds better through the lens, despite the poor FOV.

I have a small $20 Vornado fan blowing towards my head and torso, and I always thought of it as more of an overall circulation addition, but last night I forgot to turn it on, and I was hard pressed to finish a 25 minute race.

 

I did NOT think it would have made that much of a difference. I would still like to try Varjo’s active cooling one day. I believe auto IPD and active cooling are amongst the best features of it in terms of quality of life in VR.

[TheSNAFU]

Would certainly agree on the matter of game functionalities. Far before I got into vr I knew every button, wheel, slider and switch on my hotas so there was no problem putting on the headset and knowing where my controls were. Very rarely do I need to use flashlight or pop the headset up to see the real world. 
 

Concerning the binocular feel of vr at least with ww1 and 2 fighter pilots, they were generally equipped with goggles and their view would be similar to that of vr. Although their fov was admittedly wider than most vr headsets. 
 

I have no heat related issues in my g2 with the exception of a little fogging sometimes if the room temp is cooler. A quick wipe of the lenses is all I’ve needed. The set is very comfortable to wear. 
 

Im sure the areo or one of the other high end sets is better than g2 but their cost is prohibitive for me. Just won’t pay that much. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by TheSNAFU

[spreckair]

8 hours ago, jollyjack said:

Still i don't get how f.i  with a reverb G2 one has access to the many keyboard functions needed during gameplay when you're ' blindfolded' .

Alas i don't know someone in my area using a VR set.

I use VoiceAttack for those functions that I rarely use or only once or twice per mission, like landing gear, nav lights, and bailing out.  Otherwise, my stick/throttle buttons cover the things that I use a lot in a mission.  VoiceAttack is a really nice program and lets you do a lot of things with only your voice.  It also works on just about any program, so the investment can be spread out.

 

The other nice thing about VoiceAttack in single player is that you can issue voice commands to your AI flight, which feels more realistic.  However, the AI still often ignore my commands. ?

Edited February 5, 2023 by spreckair
More info

[jollyjack]

20 hours ago, drewm3i-VR said:

I don't love my G2, but it's been a pretty decent headset. I can't wait for wireless tech to be mainstream. The G2's size, weight, and heat that it generates are my biggest peeves. My Rift S was much more comfortable, but the G2 looks worlds better through the lens, despite the poor FOV.

 

That's a downer; heat. Never heard a complain like that on VR.

[Drano]

Not having these issues with my G2. It's a bit heavier than the RiftS I moved up from but it's not the end of the world. I have the counterbalance weight mod on it which helps a lot. I have no problems wearing it for hours long sessions. FOV isn't a lot better than the RiftS but the res/ visual acuity is night and day better. No screen door at all with the G2. Best bang for the buck IMO. If you wanted better FOV and higher res you can get it, but you're gonna pay out the A for it relative this headset. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Drano

[kissTheSky]

2 hours ago, jollyjack said:

 

That's a downer; heat. Never heard a complain like that on VR.

It only affects me in the summer (very humid, hot northest US summers), and mostly in racing sim. Rarely in flight sim. 

[jollyjack]

Racing on a hot summers day, Holy Mackerel; are you daft Paddy ... ?

[1Sascha]

So what about those "HP getting out of VR" rumors? The G2 still seems available on the EU/DE HP-store (for €650, ouch!), but it's labeled as "diminishing stock" ... whatever that means..

 

Plus: If I'd be going for the Quest 2, does it matter which variant I'm getting if I'm only going to use the thing on my PC - and not as a stand-alone device?

 

Also: Is the Quest 2 a decent lower end choice for IL-2 in 2023? I'm still on my puny Rift-S so pretty much anything will probably be an improvement, but would the switch to the Q2 be worthwhile?

 

 

S.

Edited February 11, 2023 by 1Sascha

[chiliwili69]

If one day the REverb G2 disappear , then the most logical low budget alternative would be the Pico Neo 3  (if display port is wanted).

 

Otherwise the Pico Neo 4 is also nice, much better than Quest2 in many senses (lenses, FOV, resolution, weight, compactness, full price).

[Todt_Von_Oben]

Getting back to this after a few days and some changes; here's a tip that worked for me.

 

As I said earlier in this thread; I started with the Rift, tried the Pimax, and settled on the G2.  Been flying it for about two years now.  I like it better than the Rift but the G2's 68mm maximum pupil width is one or two milimeters too narrow for me and it was like looking through a straw;  an awfully narrow view.

 

So I tried putting the headset on without the face mask and it gave me a great wide-angle field of view.  But then, how to hold it on my face?

 

So equipped my 4" Makita grinder with a narrow cutoff wheel and trimmed the plastic sides out of the face mask.  Took about five minutes all together.  I was careful to NOT damage the four center tabs that secure the mask to the headset but I removed the hard plastic sides almost all the way out to the foam pads on the sides. 

 

Here's a pic of the stock HP G2 mask and three pics of my modified "wide angle" mask.  I had to block two small light leaks at the bottom and a little black Gorilla Tape is all it took.  But this cheap, simple modification gave a MUCH better wide-angle view and I love the G2 even more now.  No more "horse blinders!" HURRAY!!!  

 

So, if you want to experiment with giving your G2  more of a wider angle field of vision,  it's possible.  If you aren't daring enough to perform surgery on your one-and-only headset, you might get a spare one and modify it.  But it worked really well for me and might for you, too.

 

In fact, it worked so well I think HP should market a commercial version.  Even if your face does fit the G2, this will give you a wider field of vision and who doesn't want that?

 

Prosit!   

 

 

[[CPT]Crunch]

So is what you did allowing for the face mask to widen up it's spread through better flex, letting your face closer to the lenses?  

[1Sascha]

More silly questions incoming, since I'm not really all too deep into any of the more recent VR stuff:

 

Is the lack of DP-connection on some of those devices a problem for us PC-gamers? If I understand correctly, sets like the Q2 or Neo4 connect via USB C and/or WLAN/BT?

 

 

S.

[chiliwili69]

53 minutes ago, 1Sascha said:

sets like the Q2 or Neo4 connect via USB C and/or WLAN/BT?

 

The "problem" of the Meta Quest 2 and Pico Neo 4 (and any standalone VR device equiped with the XR2 gen1 chip) is the maximun decoding limit of that chip ( 150Mbps for the H265 codec)

 

So, no matter if you have a powerfull GPU with a high %SS, or a super Wifi with a large bandwith.

 

Hopefully future Standalone devices will have a higher limit on the Decoding side and better qualities, but as resolution of the devices is every time higher it will require higher deconding rates to not loose too much info.

 

So, for us simmer seated, the DP cable will be always preferred to not lose any detail of the images.

Edited February 12, 2023 by chiliwili69

[1Sascha]

6 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

So, for us simmer seated, the DP cable will be always preferred to not lose any detail of the images.

Gotcha!

 

So I guess the USB-C connection is just to power or charge the device and the streaming of the actual image happens via Wifi?

 

S.

Edited February 12, 2023 by 1Sascha

[chiliwili69]

14 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

I guess the USB-C connection

 

The USB-C connection can be also used to stream the data instead of wifi.

 

Quest2 offer the "Link" using USB-C or "Air Link" using Wifi.

Pico4 standard software offers also both USB-C or Wifi streamining, but it runs worse than the VirtualDesktop app which only run via Wifi.

 

The reason why the software developer opted to provide only Wifi connection for the Pico4 is because most of the Wifis handle well the 150Mbps bitrate, so a USB connection will not add any value.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Can USB bandwidth be used without any data losses/compression? I wonder because PS VR2 will use this type of connection. 

[chiliwili69]

22 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Can USB bandwidth be used without any data losses/compression? I wonder because PS VR2 will use this type of connection

 

USB has several versions and connection types. Some of them have a large bitrate and can be used to support Display Port without data losses.

I believe the new PSVR2 uses DP over USB-C.