Would anyone be able to take a look at aircraft deep black fire smoke effect files please?

[Stonehouse]

Status at the moment

Engire fire - so this is blacker smoke as it involves the oil burning. Typically, this fire goes out during the terminal dive of the aircraft and leaves a thin pale smoke stream after the fire is extinguished.

 

 

Fuel tank fire - this doesn't go out. Grey/white thin smoke due to the heat generated. More about the structure of the wing and fuel burning.

 

Eventually got around the smoke_volume.txt issue by modifying some epl files and pointing the crash related smoke plumes to a new custom text file. Once I get the timing for the animation right I can upload a new version of that mod. Still haven't figured out how to retain the mostly intact wrecks but working on it.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Stonehouse

[Mysticpuma]

2 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

Status at the moment

Engire fire - so this is blacker smoke as it involves the oil burning. Typically, this fire goes out during the terminal dive of the aircraft and leaves a thin pale smoke stream after the fire is extinguished.

 

 

Fuel tank fire - this doesn't go out. Grey/white thin smoke due to the heat generated. More about the structure of the wing and fuel burning.

 

Eventually got around the smoke_volume.txt issue by modifying some epl files and pointing the crash related smoke plumes to a new custom text file. Once I get the timing for the animation right I can upload a new version of that mod. Still haven't figured out how to retain the mostly intact wrecks but working on it.

This is great news. That last picture has less opacity, erratic edges to the trail and looks significantly better than the huge thick black trail currently available. 

 

Would it be possible to show the effect on a single engine aircraft? 

[Stonehouse]

fuel tank fire - initial

 

After a short time, same aircraft shortly before impact and beginning to break up due to overspeed and damage.

 

Different aircraft, fuel tank fire and spinning. (edited to suppress swastika)

 

Engine fire (edited to suppress swastika)

 

 

 

[Mysticpuma]

This looks practical spot on with the smoke fading away/dissipating nicely. 

 

 

This goes back to appearing to appearing way over the top (trail length) IMHO.

 

 

Thank you for sharing ?

[Stonehouse]

9 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

This goes back to appearing to appearing way over the top (trail length) IMHO.

Tunable. So % wise how shorter? So if what you see = 100% is for example 75% correct?

 

It's the same smoke in each shot just a different angle and the first is earlier. 

 

<edit> so 25% less than before:

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Stonehouse

[Mysticpuma]

 

I think that's pretty close to being spot on. 

Would it be possible to see 35% less on a single engine fighter but the bomber keep this trail? It just feels that the larger the aircraft it would have this smoke but maybe a fighter, less?

 

Either way this is a great improvement over the current super thick black smoke. Thank you for your work on this ?

Edited February 4, 2023 by Mysticpuma

[Stonehouse]

Unfortunately, no, effects are one size fits all I'm sorry. I can reduce it a bit more to try to get to a compromise between single engine fighters and larger aircraft but that's about it.

 

So, you reckon go for splitting the difference? I.e., take another 5% off to make it 70% of the earlier length you said was too long or a bit more than that?

[Mysticpuma]

5 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

Unfortunately, no, effects are one size fits all I'm sorry. I can reduce it a bit more to try to get to a compromise between single engine fighters and larger aircraft but that's about it.

 

So, you reckon go for splitting the difference? I.e., take another 5% off to make it 70% of the earlier length you said was too long or a bit more than that?

Just another 5% off this version and we'll call it quits

 

[Stonehouse]

bit shorter...........just a reminder that the smoke will change colour based on light angle. I don't know enough about graphic art for digital effects to know whether this is something I've screwed up or something inherent to the sim or something which could be fixed by someone who knows what they are doing. All I did was to take one of the stock textures, deselect the alpha layer, lighten it, take a bit with the clone brush in gimp and then use it like a brush to add/remove bits (dark where it was light type stuff or vice versa) and then put the alpha layer back and export it. As far as my uneducated eyes can tell it has the same properties as the stock texture. Image is a 109 on fire.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Stonehouse

[Mysticpuma]

7 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

bit shorter...........just a reminder that the smoke will change colour based on light angle. I don't know enough about graphic art for digital effects to know whether this is something I've screwed up or something inherent to the sim or something which could be fixed by someone who knows what they are doing. All I did was to take one of the stock textures, deselect the alpha layer, lighten it, take a bit with the clone brush in gimp and then use it like a brush to add/remove bits (dark where it was light type stuff or vice versa) and then put the alpha layer back and export it. As far as my uneducated eyes can tell it has the same properties as the stock texture. Image is a 109 on fire.

 

 

Impressive work Stonehouse, thank you.

 

In regard to the fire effects, I think I remember (maybe from another thread) that various events share the same fire/smoke effects, so altering one affects another?

I have to ask though, is it possible to do the same with fire effects size? Opacity is fine but the actual fire size is quite huge? Just wondering as an overall effect if the flame effect itself is possible to be reduced to maybe 75% of it's current size too or maybe just make it a little more pointed so that where it interacts with the aircraft it isn't quite as huge? 

 

Thanks again, smoke looks great, much appreciated.

 

 

[Stonehouse]

There definitely is a reuse of effects. No idea about the fire effect for fuel tank fires. It would be a completely different set of files. I must admit I use an old JSOFlyer set of effects that I've altered to suit myself so possibly you'd see a different flame effect anyway. It is actually the main fuel tank on fire so would tend to be a pretty big deal when combined with an airstream of 150 knots plus, as I recall a G3 had 400 litres of internal fuel and later marks would be much the same I assume. It's 100 octane or more fuel I believe. If that caught fire it would cause a seriously big fire. I thought it matched the video of ww2 gun camera fairly well. Can look though I guess.

 

Have you ever seen an F111 dumping fuel or pics of it? Having the main fuel tank on fire would likely be kind of similar.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Stonehouse

[TheSNAFU]

So, is there a final on this black smoke mod, if so where is it? 
 

It looks much better. Thanks to all of you for the work

[Mysticpuma]

15 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

 

Look how far this has come ?

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Mysticpuma

[Stonehouse]

8 hours ago, TheSNAFU said:

if so where is it? 

I haven't posted it yet because it was WIP. If this is a good place to stop tweaking, then I can bundle it up and upload it.

[Stonehouse]

So not sure if you want just the different smoke files or the smoke and fire files or the whole pack I use. 

[Mysticpuma]

4 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

So not sure if you want just the different smoke files or the smoke and fire files or the whole pack I use. 

My main concern has always been the thick black smoke.

However more than happy to just take a fire and smoke effects pack if possible?

 

Cheers, MP

[Stonehouse]

OK if you want the fires too it will take a bit to figure out. Hopefully post it soon.

[Mysticpuma]

4 minutes ago, Stonehouse said:

OK if you want the fires too it will take a bit to figure out. Hopefully post it soon.

Thanks again, MP

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

11 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

OK if you want the fires too it will take a bit to figure out. Hopefully post it soon.

[Stonehouse]

So, the issue for me is that it is difficult and very time consuming to sort out exactly which of the fire effect textures are in use for aircraft damage/fires etc.

 

In the end I have left all the fire related effect textures I have been using in the mod package below. This may mean that you find that certain fire/flame related things look different to what you are used to when using this mod. 

 

If you do not like this and want to only have the altered smoke effects that have been displayed in this thread, then you would need to go into the folder \alternative smoke and fire trails\data\graphics\textures\particles and delete all dds files other than n_metallicdebris.dds and n_smoke-traildark.dds . 

 

Alternatively, you can just create a new folder within the particles folder and move all dds files other than n_metallicdebris.dds and n_smoke-traildark.dds into the new folder. The game will not see the files in this new folder with the mod enabled.

 

This would then allow you to selectively move flame related dds files back into the particles folder and pick and choose which effects that you see.

 

Pretty much this would be moving a file back, re-enable the mod, start the game and then somehow force the situation that generates the effect while playing. eg. shoot the target and make the fuel tank burn.

 

If you like the altered effect, all good.

 

If not, then it is exiting the game, disabling the mod, take the file just moved back out of the particles folder. Put a different file back into particles. Re-enable the mod. Wash, rinse and repeat. Considering that it is sometimes hard to force the effect to happen in game you can see how easily this can soak up a lot of time. Believe me I did this dance a great many times while tweaking the smoke and sometimes had to sit through 4 or 5 attempts at the same quick mission because I couldn't force the situation I needed to get the effect I wanted to test and then if it still didn't look ok you'd have to repeat the whole exercise for each time you applied a tweak to texture or configuration. I'm sure JSOflyer spends days and weeks when trying to test their effects packs.

 

You would obviously only do any of the manipulation of mod files described above when the mod is disabled in JSGME. 

 

Just to repeat that to get the smoke effects, you need to keep n_metallicdebris.dds and n_smoke-traildark.dds and the text files in alternative smoke and fire trails\data\graphics\effects\air

 

Final note - unless you know your mods and how to tweak them well enough to merge mods and handle mod conflicts then the simple rule is that to get these effects in game you must load this mod after any other effects mod you might be using (e.g. JSOFlyer's mods). 

 

 

alternative smoke and fire trails.zip

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Stonehouse

[Mysticpuma]

On 2/7/2023 at 3:07 AM, Stonehouse said:

So, the issue for me is that it is difficult and very time consuming to sort out exactly which of the fire effect textures are in use for aircraft damage/fires etc.

 

In the end I have left all the fire related effect textures I have been using in the mod package below. This may mean that you find that certain fire/flame related things look different to what you are used to when using this mod. 

 

If you do not like this and want to only have the altered smoke effects that have been displayed in this thread, then you would need to go into the folder \alternative smoke and fire trails\data\graphics\textures\particles and delete all dds files other than n_metallicdebris.dds and n_smoke-traildark.dds . 

 

Alternatively, you can just create a new folder within the particles folder and move all dds files other than n_metallicdebris.dds and n_smoke-traildark.dds into the new folder. The game will not see the files in this new folder with the mod enabled.

 

This would then allow you to selectively move flame related dds files back into the particles folder and pick and choose which effects that you see.

 

Pretty much this would be moving a file back, re-enable the mod, start the game and then somehow force the situation that generates the effect while playing. eg. shoot the target and make the fuel tank burn.

 

If you like the altered effect, all good.

 

If not, then it is exiting the game, disabling the mod, take the file just moved back out of the particles folder. Put a different file back into particles. Re-enable the mod. Wash, rinse and repeat. Considering that it is sometimes hard to force the effect to happen in game you can see how easily this can soak up a lot of time. Believe me I did this dance a great many times while tweaking the smoke and sometimes had to sit through 4 or 5 attempts at the same quick mission because I couldn't force the situation I needed to get the effect I wanted to test and then if it still didn't look ok you'd have to repeat the whole exercise for each time you applied a tweak to texture or configuration. I'm sure JSOflyer spends days and weeks when trying to test their effects packs.

 

You would obviously only do any of the manipulation of mod files described above when the mod is disabled in JSGME. 

 

Just to repeat that to get the smoke effects, you need to keep n_metallicdebris.dds and n_smoke-traildark.dds and the text files in alternative smoke and fire trails\data\graphics\effects\air

 

Final note - unless you know your mods and how to tweak them well enough to merge mods and handle mod conflicts then the simple rule is that to get these effects in game you must load this mod after any other effects mod you might be using (e.g. JSOFlyer's mods). 

 

 

alternative smoke and fire trails.zip 2.22 MB · 8 downloads

 

Well I installed the new smoke mod, launched my track of the JU52 in flames.... and no smoke at all from the engine fire ?

 

Will have another play, I did just install the smoke and fire folder as above as per usual JSGME procedure? 

[Mysticpuma]

Without any effects enabled

 

 

JSO flyers effects pack (burning aircraft less smoke fix)

 

 

 

With alternative Smoke and Fire effects enabled (smoke generated is from left engine fire, not right.

I also deleted all the files (with mod disabled in JSGME) apart from  n_metallicdebris.dds and n_smoke-traildark.dds .

Edited February 10, 2023 by Mysticpuma

[Stonehouse]

So smoke trail is different damage on left engine and not to do with fire on the right side and I suspect JSOflyer made the left smoke much lighter judging by your pics.  I assume that is a track file? Could I get a copy please? 

[Mysticpuma]

2 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

 

Updated file below ?

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Mysticpuma

[Stonehouse]

1 hour ago, Mysticpuma said:

Attached. 

trk file seems to be missing? I'll try to load it as is but not sure it will work?

 

Yep it doesn't @Mysticpuma I need the trk file as well. Believe it would be something like skirmish.yyyy-mm-dd_hh-mm-ss_nn.trk where yyyy is year, mm is month, dd is day, hh hours, mm min, ss secs and nn is the sequence of the track in the collection of tracks for the given mission (ie if you record more than a single track segment in the mission you get a 00, 01 etc)

skirmish is assuming that you were using AQMB. If it was a real mission then it will be the mission name instead of skirmish.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Stonehouse

[Mysticpuma]

No idea why it didn't attach last time. Apologies, give this a go

JU52lotsofsmoke.rar

 

33 minutes ago, Stonehouse said:

trk file seems to be missing? I'll try to load it as is but not sure it will work?

 

Yep it doesn't @Mysticpuma I need the trk file as well. Believe it would be something like skirmish.yyyy-mm-dd_hh-mm-ss_nn.trk where yyyy is year, mm is month, dd is day, hh hours, mm min, ss secs and nn is the sequence of the track in the collection of tracks for the given mission (ie if you record more than a single track segment in the mission you get a 00, 01 etc)

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Mysticpuma

[Stonehouse]

Ok so left engine smoke comes from third burst you hit with. This actually is an engine fire that later goes out. First hit is left elevator, second is left wing around the engine seeming to start a fuel/liquid leak.

 

Then while the MC202 is nibbling at you, you score a hit on a right wing fuel tank (?) and set it on fire - it is not the right engine on fire. You didn't record much past the initial outbreak of fire - I didn't see any smoke running it here - so:

• Effects can take a short time to fully build up I think. There is something that looks like timing for different stages in the animation in the text files. Did you continue to watch past the point the track cuts off? Did any smoke appear?
• What was your mod setup in your pic of the fi? stock + alternate smoke and fire or stock plus jsoflyer plus alternate smoke and fire?

I did a quick mission as well and got the screen shot below but it did take a short time to develop the smoke. So I can only think of a few possibilities:

• I've left something out of the alternate smoke and fire zip without realising it was important.
• You are running a combo of effects with alternate smoke and fire loaded last and the other effects are somehow influencing the results
• The smoke might have appeared if you watched it longer
• The fire in your track is due to different damage than the fire in my screen shot and hence a different effect is used and the smoke in your track has been completely suppressed (noting that n_metallic_debris.dds is actually a transparent dds ie no effect and attached to n-smokedarkspeed.txt so this may quite possibly be the answer) - this is the equivalent of the gun cam shots where there is no smoke and just lots of fire.

 

Trying to eliminate possibilities I am attaching the full effects pack I am using which contains the alternate smoke and fire files. When you have a sec please try to repeat the experiment (ie a new mission and try to record from point of fire starting and let it run for a min or so. Tracks get big fast so not too long) and see what you get and report back please. Use it as stock + attached pack. If you get results something like my shot above, then probably I left out a file by mistake or the damage effect is a different one.

 

I find that a P51B with a single Ju52 and waves set to reoccur until ammo is empty isn't bad as a test vehicle. Best chance for a fire is to aim at the wing between engine and fuselage. I find slowing time down to half or quarter speed can help you have more time to aim.

 

Also adding some shots from your track so you can see how it looked to me.

 

2076295059_mpeffects.zip

Edited February 10, 2023 by Stonehouse

[Mysticpuma]

9 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

Ok so left engine smoke comes from third burst you hit with. This actually is an engine fire that later goes out. First hit is left elevator, second is left wing around the engine seeming to start a fuel/liquid leak.

 

Then while the MC202 is nibbling at you, you score a hit on a right wing fuel tank (?) and set it on fire - it is not the right engine on fire. You didn't record much past the initial outbreak of fire - I didn't see any smoke running it here - so:

• Effects can take a short time to fully build up I think. There is something that looks like timing for different stages in the animation in the text files. Did you continue to watch past the point the track cuts off? Did any smoke appear?
• What was your mod setup in your pic of the fi? stock + alternate smoke and fire or stock plus jsoflyer plus alternate smoke and fire?

I did a quick mission as well and got the screen shot below but it did take a short time to develop the smoke. So I can only think of a few possibilities:

• I've left something out of the alternate smoke and fire zip without realising it was important.
• You are running a combo of effects with alternate smoke and fire loaded last and the other effects are somehow influencing the results
• The smoke might have appeared if you watched it longer
• The fire in your track is due to different damage than the fire in my screen shot and hence a different effect is used and the smoke in your track has been completely suppressed (noting that n_metallic_debris.dds is actually a transparent dds ie no effect and attached to n-smokedarkspeed.txt so this may quite possibly be the answer) - this is the equivalent of the gun cam shots where there is no smoke and just lots of fire.

 

Trying to eliminate possibilities I am attaching the full effects pack I am using which contains the alternate smoke and fire files. When you have a sec please try to repeat the experiment (ie a new mission and try to record from point of fire starting and let it run for a min or so. Tracks get big fast so not too long) and see what you get and report back please. Use it as stock + attached pack. If you get results something like my shot above, then probably I left out a file by mistake or the damage effect is a different one.

 

I find that a P51B with a single Ju52 and waves set to reoccur until ammo is empty isn't bad as a test vehicle. Best chance for a fire is to aim at the wing between engine and fuselage. I find slowing time down to half or quarter speed can help you have more time to aim.

 

Also adding some shots from your track so you can see how it looked to me.

 

2076295059_mpeffects.zip 6.47 MB · 1 download

Thanks, I will try again this afternoon ?

[Stonehouse]

On 2/11/2023 at 8:36 PM, Mysticpuma said:

Thanks, I will try again this afternoon

Any conclusions yet?

[Mysticpuma]

1 hour ago, Stonehouse said:

Any conclusions yet?

Hi, and apologies for not answering yet. 

I have been tied up with work as we are replacing an entire software network which entails a complete outage of all the company computers for a 12 hour period, leading to a complete software system having to be built to replace it while the replacement takes place! Been absolute carnage! Today is my first free day to actually have a play at this (since my last comment), will report back later, thanks for your patience ?

[Stonehouse]

2 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Hi, and apologies for not answering yet. 

I have been tied up with work as we are replacing an entire software network which entails a complete outage of all the company computers for a 12 hour period, leading to a complete software system having to be built to replace it while the replacement takes place! Been absolute carnage! Today is my first free day to actually have a play at this (since my last comment), will report back later, thanks for your patience ?

 

LOL been there - no problem at all. I was just curious.

[Mysticpuma]

1 hour ago, Stonehouse said:

 

LOL been there - no problem at all. I was just curious.

Well, booted it up, installed the entire pack and....it's great!!!! Very impressed, thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure how obvious it is, but the second image down, that I believe is the engine fire itself, and it lasts only briefly. I can see the more common (round/bubble) shaped smoke occurring, but it's obviously considerably lighter and shorter, it appears that the wing/fuel tank fire is the one that continues to engulf the wing and the smoke effect on that is fantastic!

 

Here is the track I took these images from:

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/m350gi607ta1rq1/Stonehouse+effects.rar/file

 

Very much appreciate your time and effort on this, happy to test any further tweaks if you ever return to it

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Mysticpuma

[Stonehouse]

Glad it worked ok. I'm still not sure why the original zip didn't work but it would seem I left out something important anyway. FYI I found recently while testing some things for AI Gunnery that if you take the Ju52 or whatever as your aircraft and let an AI attack you then you get the tech readout (if enabled) for each effect which is kind of interesting to watch. So fuel tank damaged message = a specific effect seen etc

[Mysticpuma]

14 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

Any conclusions yet?

On further reflection, to go from this

 

To this

 

It's ridiculously good now ?

Fantastic work mate! 

[HurridaleHurridale]

This is great work, Stonehouse, and greatly appreciated!  I´m curious about your "smoke_volume.txtx" (sic) from the Feb 10, 2023 edit.  I´m no computer geek and am assuming that´s a typo.  Will it run as-is, or I am missing even more Stonehouse goodness?

[Stonehouse]

1 hour ago, HurridaleHurridale said:

This is great work, Stonehouse, and greatly appreciated!  I´m curious about your "smoke_volume.txtx" (sic) from the Feb 10, 2023 edit.  I´m no computer geek and am assuming that´s a typo.  Will it run as-is, or I am missing even more Stonehouse goodness?

 

Thats from a while ago but I believe it should work unless a game patch has broken something. The txtx file is most likely just a file I have renamed from txt so that it is no longer visible to the game. IE You could remove that txtx file without ill effects.