Why does no one care about the AI??????

[RyanR]

Are we just screaming into the void?.... or is there any sense that the devs are listening to this thread? The thread keeps going and going.... but the developer blog seems to think we just want a G6/AS or IAR 80 for the AI to fly off into the sunset with.

 

Why must a 4 on 6 turn into a 6 vs me because my flight mates won't engage?

 

-Ryan

 

 

[Irishratticus72]

44 minutes ago, RyanR said:

Are we just screaming into the void?.... or is there any sense that the devs are listening to this thread? The thread keeps going and going.... but the developer blog seems to think we just want a G6/AS or IAR 80 for the AI to fly off into the sunset with.

 

Why must a 4 on 6 turn into a 6 vs me because my flight mates won't engage?

 

-Ryan

 

 

They don't like you.

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, Irishratticus72 said:

They don't like you.

 

Developers, ai wingmen, or all of the above?

[Noisemaker]

13 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Developers, ai wingmen, or all of the above?

I don't like you either.

We're wanted men.  I have the death sentence on 12 systems.

[RyanR]

3 hours ago, Noisemaker said:

I don't like you either.

We're wanted men.  I have the death sentence on 12 systems.

 

No blasters, No blasters!

[Avimimus]

On 2/4/2023 at 2:26 PM, Lusekofte said:

The only problem back then was gunner radar. They knew where the plane would show up. And probably still do. And that is the main problem. It is either all or nothing. Nothing is what we get now. And that is why I do not bother flying. I reinstalled because of a coop campaign just started

 

As someone who maintained the gunner AI mod for Rise of Flight and knows the system quite well... there are deeper problems with how the AI gunner algorithm works (in particular there is a specific range where it becomes perfectly accurate as types of errors cancel out).

 

Overall, I would say that AI spotting is the major issue (along with a lack of a more modular AI structure that can allow separating out different maneouvres for different aircraft e.g. WWI vs. WWII; or 1-circle vs. 2-circle). However, the gunners have deeper issues in terms of how they are calculated.

[depapier]

Its really rather unfortunate that a flight sim with such great visuals and generally the feeling of flight is unplayable in single player.

And of course with the policy of meager allowance for mods we can only assume that it will not get fixed anymore.

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, depapier said:

Its really rather unfortunate that a flight sim with such great visuals and generally the feeling of flight is unplayable in single player.

 

In your opinion, you think it's unplayable. There's a LOT of good singe player content out there right now and that is coming that not only playable but also quite fun and enjoyable.

[Frank10RABBITT81]

The main issues with AI that bug me the most: I've had to stop my campaigns due to AI bugging out. I've had all enemy planes chase my plane while all allied planes ignore said chasing planes, planes in my flight circle non-stop, and this one really thru me for a loop - the entire flight circling back to the start halfway to the objective. These issues seem to have gotten worse since the Battle of Normandy DLC was released.

[depapier]

1 minute ago, LukeFF said:

 

In your opinion, you think it's unplayable. There's a LOT of good singe player content out there right now and that is coming that not only playable but also quite fun and enjoyable.

In you opinion, there is a lot of "great single player content out there right now". I agree, if you play a heavily scripted mission and never deviate from the path while reeling in expectations that ai will do anything but follow waypoints and occasionally getting fixated in a decent dog fighting loop (altogether though). If you think this excuses that the game in fact is shipping with an unplayable career, unfixable quick missions (think how wonderful pwcg can be, if only it wasnt for ai) and unplayable missions for any ground attack (not to mention bomber) aircraft - well, no.

Flight simulation is a genre that requires a lot of time investment. This particular series also requires significant financial investments. Should I fix the game I bought by spending dozens of hours trying to script my own missions by trial and error in hopes of ai working out this one time? Nah, thanks. It already says on the tin that this sort of stuff is included in the package. It also used to sort of work.

[354thFG_Leifr]

Play a scripted campaign, get the scripted experience, AI will perform a little better within the proscribed parameters. Heaven forbid if you load up AQM or PWCG; the AI is devoid of any particular challenge or brainpower.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Leifr

[oc2209]

57 minutes ago, depapier said:

Flight simulation is a genre that requires a lot of time investment. This particular series also requires significant financial investments.

 

This totally depends on how immersed somebody wants to feel; and whether they play multiplayer (and thus must be competitive with people who are using high-end peripherals that might grant some advantage over people with bottom-of-the-barrel equipment).

 

If you play single player exclusively, you can get by just fine with a laptop and a quarter-century-old Sidewinder stick. You can buy everything but the most recently released DLC on sale for laughable prices.

 

Sturmovik by itself doesn't require any special investment for the basic single player experience. Given the low cost of entry, people might want to revise their expectations accordingly. It's not the developers' fault--or responsibility--if some people have ~$3k invested in their flight setup to play a game that offers collector planes for ~5 dollars during a sale.

 

It's almost as if people's expectations are aligned with the cost of their peripherals, rather than the cost of the sim itself.

[Lusekofte]

5 hours ago, depapier said:

Its really rather unfortunate that a flight sim with such great visuals and generally the feeling of flight is unplayable in single player.

And of course with the policy of meager allowance for mods we can only assume that it will not get fixed anymore.

I would not go so far. But frustration bottled up in ten years make you reconsider spending time with it. 
To me main issue with ai is the crew members basically is dummies. No help at all. And when gunners got nerfed totally your crew is just dead weight.  To me it is kind of wasted. Why spend such ton of workload on multi crew aircraft when it do not work. Why not just stick to fighters. So people like me can move on watching elsewhere. Not this endless wait for fixes

[Adger]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

In your opinion, you think it's unplayable. There's a LOT of good singe player content out there right now and that is coming that not only playable but also quite fun and enjoyable.

 

Not just his opinion, many others are also of the same opinion. Why do the dev team spend money and time on a career mode that’s practically broken due to the woeful A.I. Even Pat can’t do anything regarding it with his quite brilliant PWCG..I purchased the BOX series for its SP use, there’s only so many times that you can play the scripted missions ( Massive thanks to the mission designers). 

 

Alls I’ll say is that I personally will vote with my wallet I’ll not purchase anything from the studio until I see some real development regarding the A.I ..take care all enjoy your evening.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, depapier said:

If you think this excuses that the game in fact is shipping with an unplayable career, unfixable quick missions (think how wonderful pwcg can be, if only it wasnt for ai) and unplayable missions for any ground attack (not to mention bomber) aircraft - well, no.

 

I never did, so let's not go there, okay? I was just pushing back against this idea that ALL single player gameplay is somehow unplayable right now. 

[Jaegermeister]

4 hours ago, depapier said:

Should I fix the game I bought by spending dozens of hours trying to script my own missions by trial and error in hopes of ai working out this one time? Nah, thanks. It already says on the tin that this sort of stuff is included in the package. 

 

That's what I did... then it works every time.  

 

I also get the authentic historical buy in that way. Just shooting down planes never really appealed to me that much. 

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, depapier said:

that the game in fact is shipping with an unplayable career

 

I flew a Typhoon railyard bombing mission the other night. En route, our escort took care of the intercepting 109s, and once over the target the individual planes in my flight picked out their own targets - some suppressed the AAA while others went for the railcars and vehicles in the target area. Afterwards we formed up and went home. No AI colliding with each other, no shoulder shooting, no bandits chasing us across the Channel, etc.

 

Now, explain to me how that was unplayable. It was 45-50 minutes of good quality fun.

Edited February 7, 2023 by LukeFF

[Capt_Hook]

I've only dealt with the 'all the bad guys are fixed on me' issue in a few of the paid scripted missions - I usually re-play, hang back a bit, and let the friendly AI tussle with them first.  My tolerance may be a lot higher, though, as I've been playing a fair amount of DCS lately.  Love the flight model and general 'feeling' of the warbirds, but my god... the AI is so bad it's really not worth anything but a flight study sim.  

 

Jump back into IL2 and it's like the AI are all geniuses all the sudden by comparison.  

Edited February 7, 2023 by Capt_Hook

[RyanR]

It is kinda unplayable when the friendlies just fly away, and it's suddenly 10 on 1. I've had four or five missions in a row now end that way.

 

Scripted careers can be fun.... until an update renders that content unusable.

 

IL-2 is really the only game in town, though.

 

-Ryan

[oc2209]

2 hours ago, Capt_Hook said:

My tolerance may be a lot higher, though, as I've been playing a fair amount of DCS lately.  Love the flight model and general 'feeling' of the warbirds, but my god... the AI is so bad it's really not worth anything but a flight study sim. 

 

Going by non-sale prices, one WWII plane + one WWII map in DCS will cost $85. No career mode.

 

For $90, Sturmovik gives us 10 planes, a map, and a career mode.

 

Evidently that level of savings isn't good enough. Sturmovik should offer 10 planes, a map, a career mode, and a superior AI to what DCS offers for a similar price.

 

Ooookay.

[JG27_Steini]

6 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

I flew a Typhoon railyard bombing mission the other night. En route, our escort took care of the intercepting 109s, and once over the target the individual planes in my flight picked out their own targets - some suppressed the AAA while others went for the railcars and vehicles in the target area. Afterwards we formed up and went home. No AI colliding with each other, no shoulder shooting, no bandits chasing us across the Channel, etc.

 

Now, explain to me how that was unplayable. It was 45-50 minutes of good quality fun.

 

Everyone defines fun another way. I think we respect you, and you should respect him that he has problems the way he would like to play. Many can fly with current problem, other can not. There are little treasures in that game, but many problems keep me also from flying, because i dont have the patience anymore ignoring all the problem and find those little treasures.

Edited February 7, 2023 by JG27_Steini

[depapier]

The bottom line is: examples of ai issues have been given over and over; there's a bit of improvement in one area; the amount of issues is too much etc etc.

But also, now that the devs have moved past this series into the next - and I absolutely wish them all best luck, albeit don't think it will happen because of the Situation (which is steadily getting worse), - it's unlikely any of this is going to get fixed. I wish the devs would at least open up the game to modding in this area.

[Adger]

15 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

I flew a Typhoon railyard bombing mission the other night. En route, our escort took care of the intercepting 109s, and once over the target the individual planes in my flight picked out their own targets - some suppressed the AAA while others went for the railcars and vehicles in the target area. Afterwards we formed up and went home. No AI colliding with each other, no shoulder shooting, no bandits chasing us across the Channel, etc.

 

Now, explain to me how that was unplayable. It was 45-50 minutes of good quality fun.

 

And it works “perfectly” like you’ve described on every mission (career or otherwise) you fly? I might get what you’ve described maybe once in 5-10 campaign missions in my experience. I’ve had missions similar to yours at very rare times, next mission after it’s all gone wrong again..no one following orders being chased all the way back etc etc. Are you happy with the current state of the A.I Luke? Which is what this thread is all about. 

 

12 hours ago, oc2209 said:

 

Going by non-sale prices, one WWII plane + one WWII map in DCS will cost $85. No career mode.

 

For $90, Sturmovik gives us 10 planes, a map, and a career mode.

 

Evidently that level of savings isn't good enough. Sturmovik should offer 10 planes, a map, a career mode, and a superior AI to what DCS offers for a similar price.

 

Ooookay.

 

Career mode is no use with the state of the current A.I ..this isn’t about DCS it’s about the Ai of the Box series, I’ve said it before it’s a fantastic looking series with a fantastic feeling of flight but in many peoples opinion it’s A.i is simply awful at times. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Adger

[KevPBur]

I find that most of the time Career missions run fine. Perhaps in 1 in 10 I am unhappy with. I only play SP and my careers are on all sides and either fighter or fighter bombers.

When they don't go well it is generally because I have gone off mission or become too seperated from my flight for them to respond to orders/requests.

 

As with any computer software you have to use it in the way it is expected to be used. I moan about Microsoft Word all the time as it doens't work in the way I would like to write a document. However, that is my problem, I have to adapt to create the document in the way the software wants to be used.

IL2 is exactly the same, fly a mission as it is intended and you will probably get a good result.

 

For instance, if you do not pass all the waypoints on the route then the ai may get lost as they are expecting to pass the ones you missed. I consider the route to have been my orders from above and my mission is to fly that route and stick to the mission objective. Anything else and the commanding officers will consider the mission a fail, however many planes I shot down when I wandered off mission.

 

Staying close to your flight does seem to be key if you want them to respond to orders. They will cover you if requested as long as you are within maybe 3-km and a similar altitude.  They won't dive from several km above you, I think they are trying to prevent the lawn darting we all complained about in the past!

 

I think @LukeFF point, and my experience as a user, is that if you stay on task and help the ai help you then the ai will generally behave pretty well most of the time.

 

Yes, there are times when the mission just goes wrong, such as obviously, the enemy ai just target you even if you are surrounded by friendlies who don't appearto be able to see the enemy. Perhaps, the template that is generating that type of mission cold be reviewed, but it does not make SP completely unflyable.

VVS planes with tiny ammo count can cause an issue in the friendly ai quickly using up their ammo and RTB, leaving you facing the entire Luftwaffe single handedly and of course they all chase you home. Why wouldn't they, especially when home bases are only a few km away and you can't outrun them. Doesn't stop it being annoying but I'm sure it happened.

 

[Lusekofte]

12 hours ago, Capt_Hook said:

I've only dealt with the 'all the bad guys are fixed on me' issue in a few of the paid scripted missions - I usually re-play, hang back a bit, and let the friendly AI tussle with them first.  My tolerance may be a lot higher, though, as I've been playing a fair amount of DCS lately.  Love the flight model and general 'feeling' of the warbirds, but my god... the AI is so bad it's really not worth anything but a flight study sim.  

 

Jump back into IL2 and it's like the AI are all geniuses all the sudden by comparison.  

I have for sure flown career missions to my liking in the past in GB. But they was very spesific. Some JU 88 missions over Moscow and Stalingrad was very nice. After the tweak of the gunners I have not been there. But I think we are talking two different things here. In DCS the crew will do their job, they are interacting with you and your wingmen will do what they’re told. 
I have no clue how this works out in a fighter, but in choppers you feel really part of a unit. And ai counterparts can be deadly. Only ai issue I encounter a lot is the way they deal with waypoints. 
Main problem with GB is the lack of communication, the radio. 
My point of view is you can overcome much of this with right make do attitude. 
Still to me career in GB is an utter feeling of being alone. Scripted campaign is really for me the only way to play SP until this is fixed 

[Adger]

@KevPBur thank you for the input into your findings of the A.i, I personally have quite the opposite at times.

 

Ive tried doing exactly as you’ve written mate and still have countless times when I get chased all the way back, if it happened occasionally I’d be fine with it but it’s a frequent occurrence in my experience, are you getting a better experience in the BON theatre or do you have the same in all the theatres? Cheers 

[LukeFF]

14 hours ago, RyanR said:

It is kinda unplayable when the friendlies just fly away, and it's suddenly 10 on 1. I've had four or five missions in a row now end that way.

 

Scripted careers can be fun.... until an update renders that content unusable.

 

IL-2 is really the only game in town, though.

 

-Ryan

 

I know I keep saying it over and over, but this is why the developers need track and/or mission files posted in the Technical Issues section of the forum. ? The more material they have to work with, the more likely they can work out a solution to the problem(s).

10 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

I think we respect you, and you should respect him that he has problems the way he would like to play. Many can fly with current problem, other can not. There are little treasures in that game, but many problems keep me also from flying, because i dont have the patience anymore ignoring all the problem and find those little treasures.

 

Thank you, and I respect that other people are having issues with various things in SP mode. I certainly am aware of them and have made mention of them to the developers when I seem them or someone reports something here that I think is worth bringing up. But, like I wrote above, I disagree with the idea that all SP content is broken and unplayable and thus a waste of time. Can the AI still be frustrating to interact with at times? Absolutely. Does that then make all efforts at enjoying SP content pointless? Absolutely not.

Edited February 7, 2023 by LukeFF

[RyanR]

I suspect that things are more broken in BoK and BoN simply because there's less land. Less land means that the "career" mission generator tends to concentrate "incompatible" flights into a smaller area.

 

I use the term "incompatible" because one flight might be set to "kill anything" while the other flight is set to "kill only certain things, or in a certain place". You can see this in action when you're escorting bombers, and you pass an enemy formation of bombers and escorts. If nobody bothers anyone, the two formations will pass each other like ships in the night.

 

Things fall apart when the mission builder has you say, attack ground attackers. Your flight is programmed to only kill attackers and maybe their escorts. However, the mission builder may have set a "kill anything" enemy patrol up... and possibly bombers with escorts. In a large map, like BoM, these flights likely may never see each other. In BoK, less land means these flights all happen in the same area. So, you're outnumbered, and not all of "your" guys will engage all of "their" guys. All of their guys *will* engage all of your guys. The out come is all too familiar. Everyone's dead but you, and you're high tailing it back to base with 7 planes on your tail.

 

-Ryan

 

 

[RyanR]

8 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

I know I keep saying it over and over, but this is why the developers need track and/or mission files posted in the Technical Issues section of the forum. ? The more material they have to work with, the more likely they can work out a solution to the problem(s).

 

 

The developers need to start the dialog. They've been all crickets on this stuff. There are a lot of discrete things people want to see. Radio commands, for example, pops up over and over. This is not an anomalous request that requires data to troubleshoot.

 

I can't blame people for their grumpiness. There's so little evidence that all of this isn't falling on deaf ears.

 

-Ryan

 

 

[Ram399]

21 hours ago, oc2209 said:

quarter-century-old Sidewinder stick

Yeah I use my 25 year old Sidewinder with a VR headset, works fine for me lol.

 

4 hours ago, KevPBur said:

if you stay on task and help the ai help you then the ai will generally behave pretty well most of the time.

I feel like anyone with any meaningful time spent in career mode has to have realized this at some point.

[oc2209]

8 hours ago, Adger said:

Career mode is no use with the state of the current A.I ..this isn’t about DCS it’s about the Ai of the Box series, I’ve said it before it’s a fantastic looking series with a fantastic feeling of flight but in many peoples opinion it’s A.i is simply awful at times. 

 

Actually, it is valid to bring up DCS in this conversation. I'm not trying to disparage DCS; I mention it because it's the closest competition the BoX series has. For years, DCS sold WWII planes for $50 per plane, had a single WWII map, and offered nothing else that BoX offers in terms of single player depth. The DCS developers evidently thought that situation was okay, as did the people who bought their WWII planes.

 

When people bring up how old Sturmovik 1946 AI was better, or this game or that game had better AI, none of it is current-gen. We need to compare apples to apples, and have reasonable expectations here.

 

There is no current-gen WWII simulator that offers equal/superior AI to BoX's for the same prices that BoX sells its collector planes and modules. It is therefore illogical to expect/demand that a series like Sturmovik--which has always been budget-friendly, always geared toward the lower end of PC system reqs--for that same budget-minded sim to also provide us with AAA-level of AI quality.

 

To make such a demand is absurd. Contrary to the hyperbolic claims here, the AI does actually function in career and elsewhere. Just because it doesn't function as well as many of us would want, does not equate with zero functionality.

 

DCS WWII planes cost far more, and it offers far fewer maps to use in the WWII timeline, and literally has ZERO single player career functionality... and yet I seriously doubt their devs take as much bitching and nagging over those facts as the BoX devs are taking here.

 

We need to step back and look at BoX realistically, and in the context of the current flight sim market. Going by those standards, and BoX's pricing, the current AI quality is about as good as anybody can reasonably expect.

 

3 hours ago, RyanR said:

I can't blame people for their grumpiness.

 

When said grumpiness comes from an unrealistic perspective of what the current generation of WWII combat flight sims can offer for a given price point, then I do believe some blame is in order.

 

When viewed in the context of the major upheavals going on--both directly impacting the Sturmovik franchise and otherwise--then it seems even more absurd to expect/demand an AI overhaul for BoX.

 

The increased development manpower is naturally going to be focused on the next iteration of Sturmovik, whatever that may be. There's not much reason for us to expect them to rewrite the current AI system at a time like this. If they could've quickly and easily fixed the BoX AI, I'm fairly sure they would've done so by now. At this point, it's probably easier to just write a brand new AI for the next series.

[Cravis]

58 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

none of it is current-gen.

 

Which is all the more shameful to me.

This is not just about BoX but combat flight sims in general.

 

FSX had a globe and dynamic real time weather in 2006.

Falcon 4.0 had a dynamic campaign in 1998.

 

One would think with advanced technology stuff like this would become standard. Yet no current combat flight sim has it...

Ai is just another of those issues. We have more computing power than ever yet the Ai is about the same than 2 decades before and we fly around without heavy bombers or big formations...

[KevPBur]

7 hours ago, Adger said:

@KevPBur thank you for the input into your findings of the A.i, I personally have quite the opposite at times.

 

Ive tried doing exactly as you’ve written mate and still have countless times when I get chased all the way back, if it happened occasionally I’d be fine with it but it’s a frequent occurrence in my experience, are you getting a better experience in the BON theatre or do you have the same in all the theatres? Cheers 

 

So far I am only flying Allied on BON and the Luftwaffe pilots don't like water under their wings and don't chase you beyond the French beaches so are easy to evade.

I only tend to have issues in VVS careers over Stallingrad where the distance home is short and my plane is invariably slower and a worse climber.

I mention climbing as in all careers if you can get yourself in an advantageous position I find the chasers are more likley to give up so being able to outclimb to get above them can work. If you can't do that, don't run straight for home. Keep turning and running back through the chasers with a few 90° turns can sometimes throw them off or make them give up. I've done this several times in the La-5 till I run out of gas and have to ditch in friendly territory which is annoying but I claim in my head, I probably saved several of my flight by entertaining the Luftwaffe. Mark it up as a bad mission and move on to the next day. The Russian way machine will have 2 more planes made for me by the morning anyway, I just need a lift back to base!

If all else fails, I don't fly iron man so I can try again and this time try not to take the same actions that got my chased or left on my own.

 

VVS over stallingrad I have found reducing the difficulty to medium seems reduce the enemies desire to chase you far into your friendly territory.

But the best way is to not end up on your own. Sure they will chase you home and try to catch you all landing occassionally but if you can rally your troops (a well timed "Patrol for enemy aircraft") can give you a good chance. I have found a follow me and race under the incoming enemy, maybe a couple of times can give you all time to climb and even out some of their advantage whilst they turn.

 

I realise the experience might be different in bombers or IL-2's as you can't do so much to avoid the enemy fighters. I must try a career in the IL-2 and see how it goes.

 

[RyanR]

1 hour ago, Cravis said:

 

Falcon 4.0 had a dynamic campaign in 1998.

 

 

 

Falcon had a dynamic campaign in 1988 with Operation: Counterstrike on the Atari ST!

 

-Ryan

 

[RyanR]

I've been having a heck of a good time with PWCG and early USAAF channel action with the BoN map.

 

I hadn't flown the P-47 in way too long. So long that when I opened up on a 190 for the first time, I jumped out of my seat just like (Robert Johnson in his book!) as 8 fifties lit up. I forgot to dial back the convergence before taking off, so the .50's just sawed the wings off the 190.

 

This is why I think a lot of "AI problems" are actually the way career missions are scripted in the game. One of the (many) brilliant aspects of PWCG is being able adjust more parameters, and "debug" a bit before climbing into the cockpit.

 

-Ryan

 

 

[JG27_Steini]

10 hours ago, oc2209 said:

 

We need to step back and look at BoX realistically, and in the context of the current flight sim market. Going by those standards, and BoX's pricing, the current AI quality is about as good as anybody can reasonably expect.

 

You can not say what is realistically because you dont know how hard / easy it is to do a good AI. It is pretty obvious that the team have done some bad decisions with the AI and they kept moving on unable to fix those shortcoming later. We have seen great games with great AI at low budgets. It is not impossible and you can not tell what is realistic and what is not. 

[Lusekofte]

On 2/8/2023 at 8:45 AM, JG27_Steini said:

 

You can not say what is realistically because you dont know how hard / easy it is to do a good AI. It is pretty obvious that the team have done some bad decisions with the AI and they kept moving on unable to fix those shortcoming later. We have seen great games with great AI at low budgets. It is not impossible and you can not tell what is realistic and what is not. 

One can if one been here since 2012. 
You do not know much about artificial intelligence if you say it is cheap and easy. 
what low budget ai is great? 
Because no ai in any combat sim goes under that category. 
You can not compare this to anything else. 
AI planes take up as much recourses as a human player in this game. It makes it unique and good in one aspect. And bad in others. 
if you take other game limitations in to all this, you will find that a fix are not easy nor cheap.  Personally for me ai became worse after gunners got useless. 
But I have seen several honest and devoted attempts by the devs trying to improve this. 
I think any future improvements will be small if at all because they start something new, maybe ai is one of the reason

Edited February 9, 2023 by Lusekofte

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Good AI and not involved with big budget is WOFF a WW1 combat sim. Recently jet DCS has better AI. The ROF AI with mods were better than FC are now. Did enjoy fighting against 8 opponents in ROF QMB , no the same experience in FC unfortunately.

[Letka_13/Arrow_]

In my opinion, while I understand the decision to have AI use the same FM as players in hindsight has brought more problems than advantages. Like high computational complexity, poor formation flying, strange engine management inability, etc. - at least what I am observing in the sim. I think some middle ground between totally simplified models and full flight models would be best for AI to handle, so they would operate in the same flight envelope as player but do not have to deal with all complex flight dynamics phenomena. 

 

On the other hand for realistic campaigns AI does not have to necessarily be extremely skillful and be able to pull all kinds of ACE maneuvers in dogfight. This is maybe good for some furball but in campaigns in my opinion where you strive to survive for some hundred missions, the AI needs to behave itself better on tactical level. So the dogfights are not fights to death of the last aircraft but AI can loose focus, aircraft will disengage quite often after disorientation or at a squadron level. AI should adhere better to its mission like escorts would not abandon bombers and defend them - and on the other hand, the attackers should be cautious (with some randomisation) in attacking strongly defended formations (as you can read in memoirs, where germans would sometimes be hesitant to attack escorted bombers). So I think that some higher level decision making for AI would very much be needed. Sensible ground attacks with one pass/haul ass tactics against heavily defended ground targets should also be the norm as well as avoiding flak concentrations with airfields and so on. I think that each AI squad should have some higher level virtual controller (impersonating) that would create these decisions and commands (when to disengage, attack, how to attack, etc.).

[[CPT]Crunch]

Cause rewriting the AI disrupts every single campaign ever produced, and basically ends their sales unless they get rebuilt probably from scratch.  That's going to upset a whole lot of oxcarts.