Why does no one care about the AI??????

[Leftenant_Soap]

15 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

Playing career on less than top difficulty. Since @DD_Soapy got 12 kills in one sortie, I'm guessing he was playing at less than max difficulty. 12 kills means A) there were very few enemies left, and B) friendly AI was probably aggressively chasing the same target.

 

If you chase an enemy in a 6v1 scenario, or whatever, then there's a good chance the friendly AI will either hit you or collide with you. Don't get sloppy, don't get kill hungry, and it won't happen. Either kill the target quickly, or don't chase when you see other friendlies going after the target. That's what I meant by it being a completely avoidable problem.

 

The fact is I play on no less than max difficulty because I like the challenge. Normally in BoBp career you can rack up kills easily with a Mustang, but I was frustrated by my record getting ruined by dumb AI.

You're right that the problem may happen when there's only 1 or 2 enemies left, then it becomes a cluster with all the friendlies dogpiling on them. Yet there is nothing stopping them from doing this if the numbers were evenly matched. It's a problem that our wingmen are outright ignorant about avoiding friendly fire. Stuff like that happens. It shouldn't happen, but I deal with it and move on.

[Gambit21]

1 hour ago, oc2209 said:

 

When would mission design ever dictate, during a regular career sortie, that an entire enemy flight attack the player?

 

 

Simple

When there's an attack MCU object linked to the player aircraft rather than an attack area MCU linked to a trigger zone or rather than attack MC object linked tot he player aircraft but set to "group", or rather than simply allowing the AI to attack at will by virtue of being in the same proximity and not setting any attack logic at all.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DaveP63]

And it's all completely moot (except for the inevitable multi player discussion) because you, as a wingman, have zero ability to call out bogies and bandits. You have zero ability to call for help. Because you have absolutely no radio commands. I think a lot of "the silent majority" could give two craps about one circle or two circle or a bunch of specific tactics. Does it help "immersion"? Sure it does. But what really matters is can you, as a low ranking (non Russian) squadron member, do what you are supposed to do? Call your flight leader and tell him there are bandits above. That's important. When you finally reach a higher rank and can actually command something, having them respond to what you want them to do (when possible) is also important. But not if you never get there. Just my two cents.

[nachinus]

I don't really need the AI to be more challenging to be happy. I would settle with it being less of an immersion killer.

 

Some classics:

 

It would be really nice if the AI would try to avoid enemy airfields when cruising or pursuing so they don't get stupidly shot down by AA because they just keep flying straight making a perfect target. 

 

Stop silly endless chasing deep into enemy territory. I get particularly mad when I see 1 or 2 single guys chasing a flight of 4 back into enemy territory and flak.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by nachinus

[dburne]

18 minutes ago, nachinus said:

I don't really need the AI to be more challenging to be happy. I would settle with it being less of an immersion killer.

 

Some classics:

 

It would be really nice if the AI would try to avoid enemy airfields when cruising or pursuing so they don't get stupidly shot down by AA because they just keep flying straight making a perfect target. 

 

Stop silly endless chasing deep into enemy territory. I get particularly mad when I see 1 or 2 single guys chasing a flight of 4 back into enemy territory and flak.

 

 

 

Yep I get very aggravated over this one.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I have a WW1 dogfight mission I constructed for multiplayer with a quite high population of AI flights.  I regularly see a flight of 4 Se5As attack a flight of 4 D.VIIFs, and all they do dance around each other, do lots of senseless high YO YOs, and never, ever take a shot at each other.  I will fly into that mix solo and shoot down all 4 enemy aircraft, no matter which side I'm flying for, and I've done it many times for either side, and fly away totally unscathed.    if I come across one of those flights before they engage each other, they will quite often give me a very good fight, not that I can't beat them eventually, but once they engage each other they become brain dead aerobatic pilots putting on an airshow.

Edited January 23, 2023 by BlitzPig_EL

[JG27_Steini]

1 hour ago, nachinus said:

I don't really need the AI to be more challenging to be happy. I would settle with it being less of an immersion killer.

 

Some classics:

 

It would be really nice if the AI would try to avoid enemy airfields when cruising or pursuing so they don't get stupidly shot down by AA because they just keep flying straight making a perfect target. 

 

Stop silly endless chasing deep into enemy territory. I get particularly mad when I see 1 or 2 single guys chasing a flight of 4 back into enemy territory and flak.

 

 

 

That should be very simple if you gave them a live. 

 

Depending on pilot level, morale, mission, plane status etc. a pilot needs to have a factor whether he will attack or disengage a situation. An order from flight leader might change that, but a pilot should have a live and this factor is not hard to implement. Other wise it would be hard to distinguish all situations that might occur. 

[Lusekofte]

Normally I get a bit upset by loosing a wingman and can choose to do the campaign mission over again because of it in old IL 2. 

I learned pretty quick In campaign in DCS it was part of the story. But still a bit of a sad moment. In GB I could even say good riddance if that happened. To me , not relating to one’s wingmen / leader is worst part of it all. They simply don’t care to help you in any emergency nor task. This made me quit career. 
 

[JG27_Steini]

10 hours ago, oc2209 said:

 

Okay, I guess my recordings where the AI can shoot down other AI, aren't actually happening.

 

Funny thing about saying the AI is just pure trash/broken/worthless, full stop, is that it doesn't really help to fix anything. By specifying where the AI does work and where it doesn't, maybe there's a small chance something could actually get fixed/improved.

 

 

This has never happened to me in 1006 hours (how long I've run the game, according to Steam).

 

I'm not arguing whether it's immensely irritating for friendly AI to shoot you. I'm only saying that, depending on individual player behaviors/difficulty settings, etc, it's not a universal, unavoidable problem.

 

There's a lot of things people complain about here (like AI ganging up on the player, following the player all over the map, etc) that I encounter either rarely or never. Which implies to me that the AI problems are likely exacerbated by a certain combination of settings and player behavior that the AI reacts to.

 

If the AI was universally braindead, it should behave the same way from player to player.

 

This is not about AI maneuvering. This was getting better over the last years. It is all about the bugs, missing functions and limits that are not working and things that are connected to the AI. Still maneuvering is still a big problem (still endless turns, few advanced maneuver) but the AI is huge complex that is not working in many aspects.

 

- Very limited order/radio system or not working or limitations like distance

- Missing situational awareness

- Very limited skillset of maneuver

- strange AI behaviuor depending on mission settings, planes are guided by mission, not by situation

- many immersion killer like endless following or fighting over airfield

- missing flight structures/formations

etc. etc.

Edited January 23, 2023 by JG27_Steini

[GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk]

On 1/20/2023 at 5:15 PM, Wardog5711 said:

Everyone needs to chill.  It's a game, not a way of life.

 

£1500+ for a simple graphics card meaty enough

£500+ for a processor to be able to handle IL-2/DCS relatively well

£300+ for RAM

£450 for HOTAS

£650 for VR Headset

£350 for Peddles

£60 per IL-2 Module/Map ... not mentioning tower cases, gaming seat and rig frames, yokes, quadrants, vibrating jetseats, water coolers, SSD's etc etc etc.

 

.... and it's NOT a way of life? I need overtime to continue to be able to afford combat flight simming. It's a way of life. And yes being a single player only, a VERY frustrating one at that ??

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by GSHWK_Houndstone_Hawk

[depapier]

10 hours ago, oc2209 said:

Okay, I guess my recordings where the AI can shoot down other AI, aren't actually happening.

 

Funny thing about saying the AI is just pure trash/broken/worthless, full stop, is that it doesn't really help to fix anything. By specifying where the AI does work and where it doesn't, maybe there's a small chance something could actually get fixed/improved.

Hey bud, I've noticed you're being real nice and constructive in your responses. On a personal note - weird hill to die on, but its up to you really.

Now, when it comes to reporting what "is actually happening" here's a quote from another topic from last week, I gave plenty of str's and received no response (again):

Quote

So, first of all there are already topics in the relevant bug reporting part of the forum about these issues, and they have not received any response from the team for a long time.

Second, STR: any career mission as a fighter, fly as a wingman, upon encountering any enemy flight will ignore it and continue flying away until the very last moment when its too late. Rate? Nearly all the time.

Third, another STR: any career mission, fly as a flight leader, any ground pounding mission. Fly to the target and observe how your wingmen get distracted by any enemy ground asset. Call them back into formation. Observe they do so, but immediately repeat their behavior of running after whatever they encounter next. It's impossible to lead the flight to the target and back.

Fourth, more STR: any career mission for fighters, fly as a flight leader, lead an air patrol. Upon encountering enemy, order to attack and observe no attack is being done. Alternatively order to follow you as you do and observe they just glue wing and fly with you, ignoring the enemy. The order to attack will only work at like 300 meters, when its too late.

Fifth, more STR: any career mission for fighters, fly as a flight leader, lead an air patrol. Upon encountering the enemy, order to attack, survive the following massacre, recall your wingmen to return to formation, encounter more enemy - and observe them ignoring your orders.

Sixth, more STR: any career mission for fighter-bomber, fly as a wingman on a ground pounding mission. Upon arriving to target area observe your flight bomb either one aaa or bridge, and then run home, ignoring any enemy.

There is more, but basically once AI gets into a state, it's stuck.

Similar behavior, albeit within much better mission design, can be observed in PWCG generated missions.

 

Now, you may be inclined somewhat to respond in the similar manner as before, pointing out that everyone gets its wrong. For this reason, here's a selection of topics reporting ai issues over the years. I'll note also that i've mentioned the issues in questions during one of the recent dev streams to which the reply (from Albert iirc) was "apply to work with us and fix it yourself". The issues:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now then, I'll also note that I'm not knowledgeable about mission design vs ai state machine issues. To me, as a single player who spent lots of money on the simulator over the years the issue is that the main feature, which exists and works fine in other games of similar genre, does not work as it should. I'll be first in line to write an ode to the beauty of the feeling of flight, visuals, sound design, accuracy, complexity of everything in IL2BoX, but the pin holding it together - the ai, is broken, has been for years. As I mentioned before, the dog fighting aspects have gotten steadily better over the last two years. The general aspects - like following orders or not running away, have steadily gotten worse. In career, pwcg, quick mission etc. I think Il2BoX is a beautiful sim that was worth its money, even knowing that the franchise is over. But I can't and won't spend my time trying to find that one perfect single player mission where once in a while nothing is broken. There are other options, you know. The issues have been reported for years. There has been it seems little progress. And so, it's best to keep Il2BoX uninstalled.

[Livai]

I love this CPU/Human - Hybrid Ai because this happen in SP and in MP, too!!!

 

[RyanR]

4 hours ago, nachinus said:

I don't really need the AI to be more challenging to be happy. I would settle with it being less of an immersion killer.

 

 

 

 

I like the term "immersion killer". That's the benchmark I'm after.

 

-Ryan

 

 

[oc2209]

12 hours ago, DD_Soapy said:

 

The fact is I play on no less than max difficulty because I like the challenge. Normally in BoBp career you can rack up kills easily with a Mustang, but I was frustrated by my record getting ruined by dumb AI.

You're right that the problem may happen when there's only 1 or 2 enemies left, then it becomes a cluster with all the friendlies dogpiling on them. Yet there is nothing stopping them from doing this if the numbers were evenly matched. It's a problem that our wingmen are outright ignorant about avoiding friendly fire. Stuff like that happens. It shouldn't happen, but I deal with it and move on.

 

What I wonder, is why the AI doesn't (seem to, in my experience) shoot other friendly AI while chasing targets. You'd think it'd happen constantly, unless maybe the AI 'sees' other friendly AI, but is somehow blind to the player.

 

Anyway, I picked up the habit of 'defensive driving' because of ironman careers. It changed my perception and diminished my kill greed considerably. A significant danger to me was not from being shot by friendlies, but by colliding during a chase. I eliminated this risk mainly by approaching enemies from below, and looking straight up before I latch on to an enemy. This ensures I won't collide with an unnoticed friendly, and it also means I can see whether a friendly is already pursuing/shooting at my target.

 

Also, shooting quickly and breaking away quickly after shooting (regardless of checking my six--I simply break as if somebody was behind me, always) are other habits I picked up from ironman. It all comes down to risk minimization. Over time, the risk management pays off noticeably.

 

5 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

 

This is not about AI maneuvering. This was getting better over the last years. It is all about the bugs, missing functions and limits that are not working and things that are connected to the AI. Still maneuvering is still a big problem (still endless turns, few advanced maneuver) but the AI is huge complex that is not working in many aspects.

 

 

I never said the current AI was totally fine as it is. All I was contesting were the specific claims that the AI can't do its basic job of shooting stuff down. Some people were making hyperbolic claims regarding the AI's inability to even hit a target or attack enemies. That's all I wanted to correct. How making that distinction suddenly turned into me saying there's nothing at all wrong with the BoX AI, I don't know.

 

I mean, I literally said 'the AI is dumb sometimes, but not all the time,' specifically regarding whether it attacks/shoots down enemies or not.

[CountZero]

It dosent mather if frendly AI shoots at human player because human player is placing him self in situation where AI will shoot at him by human doing mistake or aiming to long or taking to long to shoot down enemy, what mathers is you would not see that behavior from wingman in real so you have to make AI who will not do that.

If frendly AI is shooting human player, its problem , its not get better human problem, and not for human player to fix, its for devs to fix it so human player is not put off by it, by preventing AI to do so even when human player is taking to long.

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by CountZero

[Gambit21]

7 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I have a WW1 dogfight mission I constructed for multiplayer with a quite high population of AI flights.  I regularly see a flight of 4 Se5As attack a flight of 4 D.VIIFs, and all they do dance around each other, do lots of senseless high YO YOs, and never, ever take a shot at each other.  I will fly into that mix solo and shoot down all 4 enemy aircraft, no matter which side I'm flying for, and I've done it many times for either side, and fly away totally unscathed.    if I come across one of those flights before they engage each other, they will quite often give me a very good fight, not that I can't beat them eventually, but once they engage each other they become brain dead aerobatic pilots putting on an airshow.

Have you added any randomization to that mission? Drop me a line if you want to know how. I can help you with some logic/groups if you want. That way you never really know what’s going to happen.

[Lusekofte]

4 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Have you added any randomization to that mission? Drop me a line if you want to know how. I can help you with some logic/groups if you want. That way you never really know what’s going to happen.

I was to answer to him that he should talk to a guy making campaigns. In Scripted campaigns ai perform much better. But impersonal so to speak. 
And that is my complaint really. One can put makeup and dress up a pig, it still a pig , just better prepared. 

[Gambit21]

8 minutes ago, Lusekofte said:

I was to answer to him that he should talk to a guy making campaigns. In Scripted campaigns ai perform much better. But impersonal so to speak. 
And that is my complaint really. One can put makeup and dress up a pig, it still a pig , just better prepared. 

 

I can add code/scripting to make them engage or bug out according to certain conditions. Let’s say if their leader gets killed - I can make them all run for home. Then if you chase and get too close - re-engage etc.

 

However once engaged the AI is hard-coded. That behavior I have influence over.

 

 

[Mmaruda]

Not saying that AI in this game is good, but you boys should install IL-2 1946 4.09 and see how it used to be, then reconsider your position. Then play some BMS and see what it's supposed to be and think about why that is. At the end of the day, the AI will be limited to what the singleplayer component of the game is designed for - scripted experience (yes I know, we have career mode, but that's just generated missions strung together to some extent).

In order to have relatively good AI, we need to have an environment that at least somewhat mimics an air war and then have AI that is objective focused, able to employ tactics and has a sense of self preservation. Coding in a bunch of 'if statements' for the bots to do maneuvers or shoot at a target in specific situations is just going to lead to a pile of crutches, that's going to be hard to dig through, if the devs ever decide to do a general AI overhaul.

I'm not criticizing the AI by the way, it's... serviceable. But at the same time I remember the endless barrel rolls, hiding behind canopy frames, inability to shoot with any sort of deflection, cheat flight models and all other weird ? I've been served by old IL-2 throughout the years. I can also launch THAT OTHER SIM and spend 30 minutes wondering why does every fight have to be constantly vertical.

[oc2209]

48 minutes ago, CountZero said:

It dosent mather if frendly AI shoots at human player because human player is placing him self in situation where AI will shoot at him by human doing mistake or aiming to long or taking to long to shoot down enemy, what mathers is you would not see that behavior from wingman in real so you have to make AI who will not do that.

If frendly AI is shooting human player, its problem , its not get better human problem, and not for human player to fix, its for devs to fix it so human player is not put off by it, by preventing AI to do so even when human player is taking to long.

 

Again, I never said that AI friendly-firing was okay. I said it was an avoidable problem. Which in my experience, holds true.

 

I did a test where I made myself invincible and flying with auto level at half throttle, vs 8 enemies, just to see how quickly and how often they'd kill each other while attacking me:

 

Spoiler

 

 

So, clearly the AI has no regard for other friendly AI, as well as human players. I still find it rather amazing that it doesn't shoot/collide with other friendly AI constantly in turning melees with 10+ planes. Does it all come down to dumb luck? Perhaps so, since very few targets will fly (or not fly) the way I do in this example; nor will they take so much damage and thereby require the AI to stay locked onto the same target for so long.

 

It seems like time on target + multiple planes chasing target = ever increasing probability for the AI to do something stupid.

[Guest deleted@83466]

FWIW, in MP I’ve seen entire squadrons of human beings shoot each other up or crash into each other all trying to destroy a single enemy.  

[Irishratticus72]

21 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

FWIW, in MP I’ve seen entire squadrons of human beings shoot each other up or crash into each other all trying to destroy a single enemy.  

Damn Bears fans.

[Olt_Kloetenburg]

What has this thread become....

 

Does anyone like to stick with the ai of today? I don't think so. 

Il 2 has never been looking prettier, flight dynamics and damage modelling are great. This should also be the age of good ai.

 

Multiplayer is a part of the fun, yes, but it is not historical to have a desktop-Hartmann sitting in every plane going for you.

So let's not argue but continue to remember the Devs that  Singleplayer was and is intended to be an integral part of this.

[KevPBur]

On the whole, I agree with @oc2209.

The AI is certainly not "broken" and "unusable". I am a (slightly) intelligent man and can work with the tools I have.

I used to have a few issues with colliding AI and friendly fire. I adjusted my flying style and now I have no issues. After all, I am the experienced old timer in every unit I fly with and the ai tend to be rookies. I can far more easy easily adjustr a little to give them space.

I'm not a great pilot and son't think I'd last 5 minutes online, prefering to stick to simpler and to my mind more believable manouvres simiolar to the AI. I generally find I have a good time in career mode.

It certainly isn't perfect but most things can be mitigated against. If you are the olny plane left flying low and slow of course the entire Luftwaffe will want a piece of you and want to chase you down. I find reversing course a few times and atleast trying to get some altitude, even in a worse climber will make you less attractive and at least most will stop following you, sometimes.

At the end of the day, if you want to play SP then the ai is what it is, the devs did and are doing the best they can to make them believable for 1940's pilots. We can try to meet them halfway and try to fly in a similar manner, and play the game. In career I am a relatively inexperienced pilot doing what his overlords tell him to the best of his ability. Anything else is beyond the SP environment.

If I am going a different direction to the rest of my AI flight, perhaps it is me going the wrong way!

 

[Gambit21]

4 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

FWIW, in MP I’ve seen entire squadrons of human beings shoot each other up or crash into each other all trying to destroy a single enemy.  

 

lol - yep.

Happened IRL too. Maybe not a whole squadron, but they did in the heat of the moment 'shoulder shoot' over each other now and then.

This is one of the questions I asked the 352nd pilots when I interviewed them.

Might result in a "hey, why don't you pull your head out of your ass!" when back on the ground (those were Don Bryan's words)

 

 

 

[RyanR]

Latest one is when your wingman slides into your blind spot under your plane.... when the bandit you're tracking does the negative-G Split-S. Fun surprise.

 

-Ryan

[Lusekofte]

To me this is counterproductive, it is not the right approach saying the game is unplayable. 
Because it is.  Not that people isn’t right in what they say. I run a business myself. Due to this international crap going on I myself are wondering if it’s worth going on. Not much negativity added will make me pull the plug. 
I am at the moment fed up with GB, but I know I come back stronger at one point. And I make do. Like I do in DCS and msfs now. 
If you like this brand to continue I think we must start to put some positive wibes in

Edited January 24, 2023 by Lusekofte

[Guest deleted@219798]

Here's a prize piece of AI craziness. PWCG mission flying a Fokker Dr1. I dived on a Camel. AI Camel pulled up in so steep a climb that he stalled. Not what I would have done. Maybe AI pilot panicked!

[JG27_Steini]

4 hours ago, Lusekofte said:

To me this is counterproductive, it is not the right approach saying the game is unplayable. 
Because it is.  Not that people isn’t right in what they say. I run a business myself. Due to this international crap going on I myself are wondering if it’s worth going on. Not much negativity added will make me pull the plug. 
I am at the moment fed up with GB, but I know I come back stronger at one point. And I make do. Like I do in DCS and msfs now. 
If you like this brand to continue I think we must start to put some positive wibes in

 

You are probably right. I start with GB 10 years ago and investet a lot of money. Many of us tried to report problems with AI. Some things have become better over the last decade, but most things not. It is just impossible to start a new career again and again dealing with the same problems. The team allready told us that the system has its limits, and for me i do have a problem invest more money not knowing what will happen. I was optimistic as TC was announced and bought also FC. Same problems, communications none. My optimism has gone.

Edited January 24, 2023 by JG27_Steini

[KevPBur]

@kestrel444x500 Was he a nivice or an ace ai? Seems like a move any nivice might make to try to evade a diving attacker. Looks like he already has some damage mybe he didn't have the plane around him he was hoping for due to the damage.

Did he evade your dive and did he recover from the stall?

If the answer is yes to either of the above then was it entirely the wrong move, especially if we only learnt to fly 2 weeks ago

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 hour ago, kestrel444x500 said:

AI Camel pulled up in so steep a climb that he stalled. Not what I would have done. Maybe AI pilot panicked!

Actually, the camel was known to be rather difficult to fly. It's quite plausible that a novice pilot would do exactly that.

 

There are many things about IL2's AI that can and should be improved, but I think this propensity to make small mistakes is something that IL2 does nicely.

[354thFG_Leifr]

Yeah, lawn-darting 109s in to the earth is a small mistake, no problem.

It happens over and over again, the AI is braindead in BoX.

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

12 minutes ago, Leifr said:

Yeah, lawn-darting 109s in to the earth is a small mistake, no problem.

And what exactly do lawn-darting 109s have to do with stalling camels?

[354thFG_Leifr]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

There are many things about IL2's AI that can and should be improved, but I think this propensity to make small mistakes is something that IL2 does nicely.

 

Excusing the AI as 'making small mistakes' as a design feature is weak when they're far more likely to make egregious and obvious large mistakes (such as flying in to the ground, abusing natural limits of the aircraft, failing to drop ordnance etc etc).

[KevPBur]

1 hour ago, Leifr said:

 

Excusing the AI as 'making small mistakes' as a design feature is weak when they're far more likely to make egregious and obvious large mistakes (such as flying in to the ground, abusing natural limits of the aircraft, failing to drop ordnance etc etc).

 

Several real aces on both sides of WW2 ended their days by running out of talent and failing to avoid the ground. It was an big issue 12 months ago in IL2 but I don't see it so much now and both 109 and VVS careers are my most flown. Yes, it still happens but rarely, just last night the rookie in my Spit IX flight messed up diving on a very low nd slow JU52. I think the issue here is simply not throtling back until too late. It is very possible to sucker a 109 into it by encouraging him to dive steeper and steeper by turning under him. I'm sure that happens with real players too, I've certainly been guilty of forgetting to look at the gauges.

 

I think @AEthelraedUnraed point is that although plenty of issues exist, the AI is far from "broken" and that perfect AI would be just as boring as none of us would keep our virtual lives for very long.

[JG27_Steini]

36 minutes ago, KevPBur said:

 

Several real aces on both sides of WW2 ended their days by running out of talent and failing to avoid the ground. It was an big issue 12 months ago in IL2 but I don't see it so much now and both 109 and VVS careers are my most flown. Yes, it still happens but rarely, just last night the rookie in my Spit IX flight messed up diving on a very low nd slow JU52. I think the issue here is simply not throtling back until too late. It is very possible to sucker a 109 into it by encouraging him to dive steeper and steeper by turning under him. I'm sure that happens with real players too, I've certainly been guilty of forgetting to look at the gauges.

 

I think @AEthelraedUnraed point is that although plenty of issues exist, the AI is far from "broken" and that perfect AI would be just as boring as none of us would keep our virtual lives for very long.

 

Simply wrong. The point is not that AI is bad in single aspect like maneuvering. The problem is that the whole AI concept is bad. Single aspects work nicely, but the whole systems fails. That is the point. You might be good with AI, but we all have seen games where the AI did better and the all over feeling was good. The current state is that there are so many problems with the AI, it kills all the immersion. And without immersion there is for many people like me no single player. And stating that there were in real pilots crashing into the ground shows that you dont understand problems others have.

Edited January 24, 2023 by JG27_Steini

[PaladinX]

Test the AI in "Over Flanders Fields" - you will not find any better flightsim AI. Thats how it should work.

[Livai]

The Immersion is ruined if

 

1. The AI always sees you coming even from a blind spot or at night.
2. As a result of 1. you can't use lack of visibility to bounce or evade your opponent.
3. The AI always fly perfectly coordinated flight even at rookie setting.
4. The AI have the ability to use 100% power and WEP indefinately
5. As a result of 4. the AI are always faster than you in the same aircraft
6. The AI never make mistakes such as a snap stall or a spin (in an undamged AC)
7. The clouds do not exist for AI rendering them as nothing but eye candy.
8. The AI does not have a sense of self preservation.
9. AI follows you half way across the map with a damaged AC
10. The AI can always use full control deflection at impossible speeds.
11. The AI makes us think WTF! that is not possible.
12. Enemy bombers do barrel rolls to evade you.
13. Enemy gunners have sniper like accuracy when their aircraft is taking violent evasive manouvers or at extreme ranges and angles.

It is forgivable if the AI breaks one, two or even three of these rules. It is completely unforgivable when the AI breaks every single one of them (and more). Technically is "IL-2 Great Battles" a good simulation but IMHO the implementation of the AI could be better.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Livai

[FTC_DerSheriff]

On 1/20/2023 at 12:16 AM, Deicide said:

way he is and his arrogance towards others who aren't as good as him.

Sry when did we have the honor?

 

I am so arrogant that I made hours and hours of videos for these players. Just to sit on my high horse I guess.

Edited January 24, 2023 by FTC_DerSheriff

[Guest deleted@219798]

6 hours ago, KevPBur said:

@kestrel444x500 Was he a nivice or an ace ai? Seems like a move any nivice might make to try to evade a diving attacker. Looks like he already has some damage mybe he didn't have the plane around him he was hoping for due to the damage.

Did he evade your dive and did he recover from the stall?

If the answer is yes to either of the above then was it entirely the wrong move, especially if we only learnt to fly 2 weeks ago

As it was a PWCG mission there's no way to what the AI rating was. If the plane was damaged AI heads home, it wasn't. This is just one example of AI moves that to me are incomprehensible. The AI rating of ace, novice etc doesn't effect flying ability. All AI fly the same. I had look at the video of this flight the Camel wasn't damaged, but it soon was.

Edited January 24, 2023 by kestrel444x500