Any good campaign suggestions for a fighter bomber anti-shipping campaign?

[Daisy_Blossom]

I'm not particular about which side but has anyone found/ is there a way for me to find a campaign setup that has a lot of anti-shipping? I would prefer the Normandy map and an aircraft that can fight a bit after dropping ordnance (P-47/P-38/Typhoon/FW-190)

 

Anyone have a good squad and start date?

 

Thanks! 

[Stonehouse]

8 hours ago, Daisy_Blossom said:

I'm not particular about which side but has anyone found/ is there a way for me to find a campaign setup that has a lot of anti-shipping? I would prefer the Normandy map and an aircraft that can fight a bit after dropping ordnance (P-47/P-38/Typhoon/FW-190)

 

Anyone have a good squad and start date?

 

Thanks! 

 

Not so easy to discover. If you want to try to guarantee anti shipping missions, you need to find a squadron with one of its roles being ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING. As best I can tell the following are those with that role (via Notepad++). Looks like the only Allied one on Normandy is 4 SQD flying Mosquito's. Alternatively, perhaps II_ZG26, III_ZG26 or II_ZG1 (unless you want to fly bombers ie I_KG54). Russian units would be Kuban.

 

Pat might be able to tell you whether taking a squadron with ROLE_ATTACK (lots of these) and changing the target weighting in advanced campaign preferences would also generate more shipping strikes.

 

Spoiler

Search "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING" (20 hits in 10 files of 135 searched)
  E:\Games\IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\PWCGBoS\BoSData\Input\Squadron\II_ZG26.json (1 hit)
    Line  61:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
  E:\Games\IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\PWCGBoS\BoSData\Input\Squadron\III_ZG1.json (3 hits)
    Line  81:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
    Line  90:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
    Line 115:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
  E:\Games\IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\PWCGBoS\BoSData\Input\Squadron\III_ZG26.json (1 hit)
    Line  66:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
  E:\Games\IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\PWCGBoS\BoSData\Input\Squadron\4 Squadron.json (1 hit)
    Line 46:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
  E:\Games\IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\PWCGBoS\BoSData\Input\Squadron\136th Bomber Air Regiment.json (3 hits)
    Line 103:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
    Line 116:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
    Line 129:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
  E:\Games\IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\PWCGBoS\BoSData\Input\Squadron\321st Bomber Air Regiment.json (1 hit)
    Line 102:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
  E:\Games\IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\PWCGBoS\BoSData\Input\Squadron\I_KG54.json (3 hits)
    Line  42:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
    Line  55:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
    Line  80:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
  E:\Games\IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\PWCGBoS\BoSData\Input\Squadron\I_KG55.json (1 hit)
    Line  92:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
  E:\Games\IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\PWCGBoS\BoSData\Input\Squadron\I_KG76.json (3 hits)
    Line  74:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
    Line  87:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
    Line 112:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
  E:\Games\IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\PWCGBoS\BoSData\Input\Squadron\II_KG76.json (3 hits)
    Line  73:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
    Line  86:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",
    Line 111:                         "role": "ROLE_ANTI_SHIPPING",

 

[Daisy_Blossom]

So can one simply modify these JSON files in notepad++ or something similar to give any squad this role? I know it would be breaking history and all that but I'm curious if it's that simple. 

[PatrickAWlson]

2 hours ago, Daisy_Blossom said:

So can one simply modify these JSON files in notepad++ or something similar to give any squad this role? I know it would be breaking history and all that but I'm curious if it's that simple. 

 

You can, but once you do the product (PWCG) is no longer supported.  The files will also be overwritten with every new install.  Keeping your changes in sync with any changes that I make is your responsibility.

 

However, if you really want to do it:

1. Back up the PWCG files.

2. Make the edits.

3. Save your edited file to a different folder.

4. Whenever a new version of PWCG comes out, diff the file against the new release and merge your changes back in.

 

I don't think that you have to edit the JSON files.  Normandy and Kuban are the two places where there can be shipping.  Sept, Oct 1943 have active anti shipping activities on Kuban.  Normandy 1941 from June to August should have lots of anti shipping.  There should also be anti shipping from 1942 - D-Day.  

 

The German Ju88c squadron (III/ZG1) should do a lot of anti shipping. 

[Daisy_Blossom]

1 minute ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

You can, but once you do the product (PWCG) is no longer supported.  The files will also be overwritten with every new install.  Keeping your changes in sync with any changes that I make is your responsibility.

 

However, if you really want to do it:

1. Back up the PWCG files.

2. Make the edits.

3. Save your edited file to a different folder.

4. Whenever a new version of PWCG comes out, diff the file against the new release and merge your changes back in.

 

I don't think that you have to edit the JSON files.  Normandy and Kuban are the two places where there can be shipping.  Sept, Oct 1943 have active anti shipping activities on Kuban.  Normandy 1941 from June to August should have lots of anti shipping.  There should also be anti shipping from 1942 - D-Day.  

 

The German Ju88c squadron (III/ZG1) should do a lot of anti shipping. 

Thanks, Pat! Fully understood any modifications to files put me in "don't ask for technical help after doing this" territory. I do appreciate your response, though! Looks like there's plenty of anti-shipping, it's just exclusively with BF-110's/ Ju-88's/ A-20's/ Mossies. Which is great! I was just hoping for a typhoon or jug or 190 squad that did some anti-shipping too. No big, though! Thanks again for the awesome software!

[Daisy_Blossom]

I am curious why 3 squadron RAF (which eventually becomes 182 squad and its info can be found in that JSON) doesn't get some anti-shipping since at least wikipedia specifically mentions they took on that role when they equipped with typhoons in early 1943. I'm guessing you have sources that are better and I'm definitely not trying to complain; just a curiosity! 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Daisy_Blossom

[PatrickAWlson]

It is not the case that only squadrons designated as Anti shipping will get anti shipping missions.  Any squadron that does ground attack (which means everybody) might get an shipping target as part of a ground attack mission.  Anti Shipping is meant to apply an emphasis on shipping as a target.

[Daisy_Blossom]

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification, Pat! 

[Daisy_Blossom]

@PatrickAWlson I'm curious what the options in the below screenshot actually modify, assuming you change the final option to a "0" so that they aren't overridden. Do they only affect "bombing" role missions? I cannot seem to force it to create anti-shipping missions no matter what I put in there. 

Additionally, what is the difference between the "mission with role" of bomber/raider/attacker? Thanks again! 

[Stonehouse]

My understanding for the 2 cents it is worth is they are relative weights for randomly selecting target types for strike/bombing missions (which cover several roles as per those in the squadron json). They don't have to add to 100%. So enemy infantry is the most likely target with the settings you show but it isn't a guarantee, it just skews the random selection of type. So, an infantry strike is twice as likely as a anti-armor strike. Not sure what the PWCG changes odds setting is for but presume you are correct in your guess. It may have something to do with significant battle periods too.

 

So, you'd think that if you had a squadron with any kind of attack role and were on a map with shipping allowed that setting everything to zero except the shipping entry would make it very likely to get a shipping strike mission although still not a guarantee................doesn't work that way in practice for you? 

 

Mind you the weighting in the squadron file would also sit on top of that. So, a squadron with fighter role and 60 weighting and attack role with 30 weighting is going to get fighter missions most of the time. Guessing only that the target weighting kicks in only when a strike mission is generated. It may also depend on if there are ships in the mission area. I think Pat changed things quite a few versions back so that the air missions are built based on the ground war so perhaps targets are placed first and then missions generated against them. No ships (or perhaps the ships are already fragged for another squadron, so you miss out) then it picks the next most likely target type.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Stonehouse

[PatrickAWlson]

PWCG target selection has gotten pretty complex over the past 12 years.  Those target weights were the original target selection parameters and they remain in use today for generic front line attack missions.  However, many layers have been added that may cause different results.  If everything falls through to a generic attack or bombing mission, which is probably true more often than not, then those weights  will be used to select the target type. 

 

In PWCG there are often favored target types for a given map and a given date range.  Those target types will alter the generic weights.  For example, shipping is more heavily weighted in October in Kuban because the Germans are in Crimea and the Russians are on the other side with water in between.  Barges are a preferred target during a phase of Stalingrad.  There are many more examples.

 

There are also squadron roles which allow for greater specialization.  ROLE_ATTACK generates generic front line attack missions which can be land or sea, front line or deeper.  Other, more specialized roles may get more limited target types.  A unit with an anti shipping role will prefer to attack ships.  A unit with a raider role will tend to get deep penetration targets like airfields and rail depos while not getting front line interdiction missions.  Train busters will focus on trains.

 

Step 1: Before anything is selected, all ground units (ground includes sea - basically everything an airplane might want to kill) are created.  Those ground units are shuffled to create a randomized list.

 

Step 2: Choose the squadron's role.  The possible mission roles are based on the squadron's role designations as defined in the squadron file.

 

Step 3: Choose the preferred target type.  Based on selected role, map/date overrides, and the base target type selection a list of possible target types is created and shuffled.  This list is also weighted, so the randomization process is going to be relatively more likely to choose highly weighted target  types.

 

Step 4: Pseudo code

For each target type in the shuffled list

    For each target in the shuffled target list

        Find the first target that matches the target type.

 

 

You can see that the first target matching the first role will generally be the mission target.  If no target matches the first target type, PWCG will switch to the second target type, and the third, until it finds an actual target that matches the desired target type.  If no suitable target is found then PWCG will throw an error.  This really does not occur since the combination of targets generated and target type data sets are pretty carefully put together to ensure that something is available.

 

 

In the end, what you are supposed to experience is a diversity of targets and mission profiles, suitable for your unit, and aligned with historical events.  Not an exact recreation but close enough to make a person who has read some WWII history actually feel some correlation between what PWCG is generating and what really happened.

 

Per the different roles:

Attack is generic and can be anything, but often with an emphasis on front line support.

Anti shipping and anti train are generic attacks with a specific target preference.

Raid is a very low altitude, unescorted attack on a deeper target.

Bomb is level bombing.

 

[Daisy_Blossom]

Thanks for your time and patience to disambiguate things, Pat! It really is crazy how much is going on behind the curtain. You have really brought us something special. I'll throw some beer money your way!