Why did the Germans have Stab units?

[PatrickAWlson]

I know what they are: command units (Stab = Staff).   My question is why?  I am not aware of any other air service using this structure and I am curious as to what the Germans saw as the advantages.  Goggling Luftwaffe Stab gets you what it is but nobody seems too keen on explaining why they exist at all.

[BlitzPig_EL]

So the big wigs can have cool markings on their aircraft, to go along with their snappy uniforms??

 

?

[dbuile]

Ah, cool question, and picks at my lack of organizational knowledge of LW hierarchy!  When you say no other air service used the structure, how do you mean?  The fact that it's a set of aircraft unto itself, or something different?

For example, would it be analogous to say, for the USAAF, multiple Fighter Squadrons made up a Fighter Group.  Did that Fighter Group have a Staff, separate from the Squadrons, that handle command/control/admin for the Group as a whole?

 

[Eisenfaustus]

The German military philosophy is to lead from the front. Gruppenkommandeure were expected to lead their Staffeln while participating in combat. For the same reason Bataillon conmanders in Panzer- or Panzergrenadier units have their own tank/ifv even today. 

[MrWound]

Hi, not an expert in this matter, but from what I've read the I've understood that the reason lies within the culture of Luftwaffe as well as the nature of the tactical use of the Geschwaders/Gruppen. So, first of all, the Luftwaffe as created in the middle of 1930s had the ideals of having young energetic leaders who'd be there in the air together with their subordinates. Perhaps it's the effect of Görings ideals molded by his experience in the Richthofen's Circus? As such, the Geschwaderkommodore would not be a bureaucratic position, but it would be rather natural for him to be involved in the day-to-day missions personally.
Now, for tactical purposes, the Gruppen were often detached from the Geschwader, operating from different airfields or even theatres of war from the rest of the Geschwader (and consequently from the Geschwaderkommodore). My guess is that the Gruppen were more or less independent and the camaraderie within the Gruppe was strong. Now if the hot-shot kommodore would also fly the missions with some of the Gruppen it would disturb the usual structure and often it would just be impossible if the Geschwader has been dispersed for tactical reasons. Having a separate Stab Gruppe for the higher-ups seems logical then.

[JG27_Steini]

1 hour ago, MrWound said:

Hi, not an expert in this matter, but from what I've read the I've understood that the reason lies within the culture of Luftwaffe as well as the nature of the tactical use of the Geschwaders/Gruppen. So, first of all, the Luftwaffe as created in the middle of 1930s had the ideals of having young energetic leaders who'd be there in the air together with their subordinates. Perhaps it's the effect of Görings ideals molded by his experience in the Richthofen's Circus? As such, the Geschwaderkommodore would not be a bureaucratic position, but it would be rather natural for him to be involved in the day-to-day missions personally.
Now, for tactical purposes, the Gruppen were often detached from the Geschwader, operating from different airfields or even theatres of war from the rest of the Geschwader (and consequently from the Geschwaderkommodore). My guess is that the Gruppen were more or less independent and the camaraderie within the Gruppe was strong. Now if the hot-shot kommodore would also fly the missions with some of the Gruppen it would disturb the usual structure and often it would just be impossible if the Geschwader has been dispersed for tactical reasons. Having a separate Stab Gruppe for the higher-ups seems logical then.

 

This sound's pretty right for me. As german's tend to structurize everything it help in a military and bureaucracy aspect. Question is how active in flight this special group at least was.

[DBFlyguy]

 

3 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I know what they are: command units (Stab = Staff).   My question is why?  I am not aware of any other air service using this structure and I am curious as to what the Germans saw as the advantages.  Goggling Luftwaffe Stab gets you what it is but nobody seems too keen on explaining why they exist at all.

The USAAF had a similar setup during WWII, it was the HQ (headquarters) flight, which the group commander, deputy group commander and group operations officer were assigned to instead of one of the squadrons of the fighter group.

Edited December 14, 2022 by DBFlyguy

[LukeFF]

...and to add to that, Soviet Air Regiments had a two or three plane HQ section.

[PatrickAWlson]

Thanks for the replies.  I was unaware of the use of HQ flights for the US and Russia.

 

Special thanks to @MrWound - that answer makes sense.

 

However, we all know that @BlitzPig_EL got it right with the very first post.  It was all about the cool markings.

[Juri_JS]

Aircraft for special purposes like liason or recon were often also assigned to the Stab of a Gruppe or Geschwader. For example some Stuka units had Bf-110s and Fw-189s in their Geschwaderstab so they could fly recon missions on their own.

[Ram399]

5 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

Question is how active in flight this special group at least was.

While it most likely varied on a unit by unit basis, most of the literature I've read has the Gruppenstab taking a very active role in day to day combat operations.  It is notable that Gerhard Barkhorn scored roughly half of his 301 victories as the Gruppenkommandeur of II./JG 52 from September 1943 onward.

[dbuile]

May I ask:  did Stab flights exist in WWI?

[PatrickAWlson]

3 hours ago, dbuile said:

May I ask:  did Stab flights exist in WWI?

 

Not that I am aware of.  JagdGeschwaders didn't exist until late 1917.  Von Richthofen continued to fly with Jasta 11 and it was not unusual for the Jastas of JG1 to be scattered.

[Juri_JS]

8 hours ago, Ram399 said:

While it most likely varied on a unit by unit basis, most of the literature I've read has the Gruppenstab taking a very active role in day to day combat operations.  It is notable that Gerhard Barkhorn scored roughly half of his 301 victories as the Gruppenkommandeur of II./JG 52 from September 1943 onward.

Especially in fighter units it was expected that the Geschwaderkommodore would regularly take part in combat missions, but not all did it. For example Karl-Gottfried Nordmann the commander of JG 51 stopped flying combat missions in January 1943, after he had a midair collision that killed the Gruppenkommandeur of I./JG 51. It's an open question if he was no longer physical fit for flying or if it was mostly a psychological problem.

 

Also in Stuka and bomber units not every Geschwaderkommodore would take part in combat missions on a regular basis, especially later in the war.