Career seems unfair, or am I doing something wrong?

[DRosa]

I bought IL2 not long ago, I tried to play some games online but I just got frustrations. Then I started a career to "train" but ended up discovering that it's much more fun than I imagined. Turns out I'm having some issues, I'm on my second career as a Yak-1 ser. 69 pilot., and I don't understand how, but my guns don't seem to do any damage, just luckily sometimes I end up ripping off an enemy's wing, on other occasions, I have to hit hundreds of shots, completely damage the enemy plane, chase only 1 during the entire battle, to make him fall. And believe me, it's not a lack of aim, the shots visibly hit, the gasoline, the oil, the water, everything starts to leak, sometimes I get close enough to see the entire fuselage of the opponent punctured, but the damned ones keep flying and maneuvering . I don't get it, shouldn't 20mm hits do more crippling damage? Also, my machine gun looks puny in battle, like I'm shooting beans. On the other hand, all NPCs, including my friends, seem to have impeccable aim, shooting long bursts without missing a single shot.

 

Changing the difficulty doesn't seem to make much difference, the only thing that makes a difference is changing the battle density, which usually makes the enemy have 10x more planes and all missions are impossible to complete

 

I saw that the career mode is played a lot by the community, does this only happen with the Yak-1? Do I need to install any mods? Or just lack of skill?

[twilson37]

Welcome to the Il-2 community.  I realize when you first start flying IL2 it can be a bit daunting. I think the first thing to realize is that the airframe is the strongest part of an aircraft so it is rare that a wing will be shot off so many kills may be killing the engine through a coolant or oil leak or killing the pilot. I tend to take the advice of the pilots at the time which is to get in close making sure every cannon shell finds its target, many of your hits that you see impacting the aircraft may also be MG shells and not canon shells. The Yak-1 69 machine guns are only 7.62 mm and cause minimal damage to an aircraft unless they hit a vital piece of equipment.  Good luck

[AtomicP]

I'd suggest making a quick mission with the aircraft of your choice to fly and something slow and easy to shoot at like a Ju 52. That way you can improve your aim before moving onto more challenging foes.

[Lusekofte]

I think the Hollywood effect and dramatic damage made by guns and cannons are over done. 
one reason why not many fly bombers. This community expect to be able to shoot 10 ac each mission. If not ,something is wrong. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Lusekofte

[Dragon1-1]

Maybe on German high explosive shells, but on Yaks, if you have good aim you can take down three or four fighters, at most. Ace in a day can be done, but takes a lot of good gunnery and quite a bit of luck, just like IRL.

 

As for the Yak's guns, well, the 20mm is powerful, but it won't instantly disintegrate the enemy fighter. The engine is protected by the rest of the plane (unless it isn't, the Bf-110 lights up pretty reliably if you aim at the nacelle), and the pilot usually sits in an armored seat. The rifle caliber MGs aren't terribly useful, although you can get a kill with them if you have good aim. Good marksmanship is vital with Russian fighters, they usually have a paltry load of ammunition, except for the ShKAS, which are rifle caliber and don't do a whole lot. Also, don't use the "fire all guns" trigger. The guns have different ballistics and it's sometimes useful to fire them separately. 

[PatrickAWlson]

One of the reasons I prefer German fighters is the ammo load.  I am not a good shot so I need all the ammo I can get.  One other aspect that makes scoring challenging is the fact that you are rarely presented with a non maneuvering target.  IRL most kills were scored against some  poor slob who never even knew he was about to be shot down.  

 

Last thing: I personally believe that many of these huge claims in a day, on all sides, may not have been all that accurate.  Overclaims, by a factor of 3x or more,  were a thing.  We know that.  I don't know how one can reconcile knowing that and yet believing that scores in an individual action could not possibly be overclaimed.

 

So - if you shoot one down you did great.  If you shoot two down you did far better in a day than most pilots did in their careers.  Anything beyond that and you are in the top 1%.

[Dragon1-1]

On the other hand, what the sim will recognize as a kill would often not be so IRL. I've been awarded, as a Soviet pilot, kills for fighters that, after being shot full of holes, crashed deep in the enemy territory. IRL, Soviets had strict rules for confirming kills, counting only ones which the ground forces could attest to. No nation in WWII would score a fighter that they didn't see crash, go down in flames or get important bits shot off. They'd just assume it got away, even if it crashed later on, possibly on approach or landing (happens often enough, especially with damaged landing gear). Il-2 will count those, as well as those where you put only a few rifle-caliber rounds into a plane, it got away, and later got taken out by someone else. So, the sim's scoreboard can be said to overclaim as well, with its extremely loose definition of a confirmed kill. 

[LukeFF]

11 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

IRL, Soviets had strict rules for confirming kills, counting only ones which the ground forces could attest to.

 

Where have you read that? One thing that's a constant in the Black Cross / Red Star books is that the VVS grossly overclaimed victories, and it doesn't seem like the higher command didn't do much about it. That's why, for instance, it's been so hard to determine what Pokryshkin's actual score was. Bergstrom discusses this in the latest BC/RS volume, where he lists 3 or 4 possible scores he might've had, and they're all over the place.

[Dragon1-1]

9 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Where have you read that? 

I don't remember where, but it was related to the fact Soviets paid a monetary bonus (which you also get in the sim) for every aircraft shot down. To prevent pilots from abusing the system, they instituted strict rules on claims that would be eligible. It's possible they claimed more for propaganda purposes, but then, every side did that, and not just in WWII.

[Sobilak]

Soviet's claim's some of 44,000 Luftwaffe aircraft's lost in eastern front.

 "According to Murray ( using contemporary unit reports) the total of all combat losses in the East was only 11,000,with a high of 3500 in a single year."

Combat losses from;

- enemy aircraft's

- enemy AA

- losses from different purpose's

It's 25% of cliaim's.

How many percent of 11,000 was from VVS fighter's?

 

[KevPBur]

Going back to the original question for a moment.

@low_georgy Welcome abourd and to career mode that I find delights and infuriates in even measure on any given career. When I first started I was focused on getting kills then realised the main poiint of any mission is only rarely getting kills.

In nearly all missions your objective as a fighter pilot is to prevent any planes reaching their target.

E.G. as a bomber intercept you job is to prevent those bombers from bombing their target. If you force them to drop bombs early and rtb you have succedded. You or your flight usually need to shoot one down to get a mission succeeded but in reality you won by putting them off.

If Escorting you win if most of your escortees get to target. You only need to damage enemy fighters enough to make then disigage.

 

Sometimes. I can get 3 kills with 3 short bursts of fire and still have ammo in a VVS plane.

Othertimes I can empty everything into one plane that now looks like swiss cheese and it refuses to go down.

However, had I disingaged after causing some damage he may have prefered to limp for home and cause me no more threat. As others have said, you may get your kill later when he fails to get home safely.

Either way, he is no no longer a danger and I can switch concentration to the next threat to me, my wingmates or our chargies

 

Once I realised my kill count doesn't matter and that firstly, I must survive, career got all the more enjoyable.

 

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

On 12/6/2022 at 8:45 AM, low_georgy said:

I bought IL2 not long ago, I tried to play some games online but I just got frustrations. Then I started a career to "train" but ended up discovering that it's much more fun than I imagined. Turns out I'm having some issues, I'm on my second career as a Yak-1 ser. 69 pilot., and I don't understand how, but my guns don't seem to do any damage, just luckily sometimes I end up ripping off an enemy's wing, on other occasions, I have to hit hundreds of shots, completely damage the enemy plane, chase only 1 during the entire battle, to make him fall. And believe me, it's not a lack of aim, the shots visibly hit, the gasoline, the oil, the water, everything starts to leak, sometimes I get close enough to see the entire fuselage of the opponent punctured, but the damned ones keep flying and maneuvering . I don't get it, shouldn't 20mm hits do more crippling damage? Also, my machine gun looks puny in battle, like I'm shooting beans. On the other hand, all NPCs, including my friends, seem to have impeccable aim, shooting long bursts without missing a single shot.

 

Changing the difficulty doesn't seem to make much difference, the only thing that makes a difference is changing the battle density, which usually makes the enemy have 10x more planes and all missions are impossible to complete

 

I saw that the career mode is played a lot by the community, does this only happen with the Yak-1? Do I need to install any mods? Or just lack of skill?

 

Historically speaking the machine guns on the Yak 1.69 and the 20mm cannon were kind of underpowered - especially the machine guns.  They had a high rate of fire and a fairly decent amount of ammo but, often times had trouble doing serious damage without direct hits to vital areas or getting a solid spray on the pilot himself.  The Russian 20mm was somewhat better than the German 15mm (which German pilots hated for its lack of power) but, not nearly as good as the German 20mm.

 

In the early war, many planes on both sides carried machine guns that were barely capable of taking down enemy planes of the same class and similar construction.  A few examples we have in the sim of this would be the i16 (mg only) and the MC.202 (mg only). 

 

My advice would be to damage enemy planes and play "keep away" until they bug out or bleed to death.  Sometimes it's best to let them crawl off and die. If possible, damage as many planes as you can and do what you can to help your wingmen only sticking solidly to ones you need to force to leave your squad mates alone.  

The game is going to confirm anything that dies out of your sight so, spread the 'love' around to multiple enemies and when they break for home keep with your group. 

 

Besides, IRL it was not only important to kill enemy planes, it was sometimes just as good to keep the ground crews overstressed with repair work and planes forced to stay grounded until such work was completed.  I know that's not really all that important to the game but, you might find it to be an interesting way to view it as a "sim".

[PB0_Roll]

2 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I don't remember where, but it was related to the fact Soviets paid a monetary bonus (which you also get in the sim) for every aircraft shot down. To prevent pilots from abusing the system, they instituted strict rules on claims that would be eligible. It's possible they claimed more for propaganda purposes, but then, every side did that, and not just in WWII.

On paper only.

 

When advancing you can check sooner or later, when retreating you can't, and they accepted having witnesses and no wreck in this case, as did other countries.

 

Advancing=checked overclaim.

 

Retreating=unchecked overclaim.

 

That's the main reason for the 100+ victories german aces

[Freycinet]

Get closer.

[PatrickAWlson]

2 hours ago, PB0_Roll said:

On paper only.

 

When advancing you can check sooner or later, when retreating you can't, and they accepted having witnesses and no wreck in this case, as did other countries.

 

Advancing=checked overclaim.

 

Retreating=unchecked overclaim.

 

That's the main reason for the 100+ victories german aces

 

There is more to it than that.  Fighting over enemy territory = overclaim.   Losing = overclaim.  Fighting at higher altitude = overclaim.  

 

And that is not the reason for the 100+ victory German aces.  Time in combat is the reason.  Robert Johnson shot down more planes per mission than Erich Hartmann.  He just happened to fly 100  missions to Hartmann's 1500.  If American pilots flew as long and as often as German pilots they would also have credits in the 100s. 

 

Please do some research on the German scores.  It's down to missions flown and, on the eastern front, quality of the opponent.  Mostly missions flown.  Priller flew entirely in the west.  He flew over 300 missions and fought for the entire war, first day to last.  He scored 101, a bit more on a per mission basis than Johnson.  Hartmann only started flying in 1942 yet he amassed 1500 missions.  In the east, four or five missions per day was normal.  Again, fewer credited victories per mission than Johnson.

 

Truth is they were all full of it to some extent (not necessarily with intent) because we know that massive overclaims were a thing on all sides.  If we know that overclaims were a thing on all sides then it falls to reason that some of the guys doing the claiming were the ones who were overclaiming.  Except for the few that were straight up lying it shouldn't really matter.  They were among the best at what they did, whatever their real victory tally may have been.

[RyanR]

4 hours ago, KevPBur said:

Once I realised my kill count doesn't matter and that firstly, I must survive, career got all the more enjoyable.

 

 

Totally agree. Also, it can be really hard to remember this. Sometimes I backslide and forget... then get frustrated.... then have to step back and state the obvious to myself again: "Survive".

 

-Ryan

[PatrickAWlson]

10 minutes ago, RyanR said:

 

 

Totally agree. Also, it can be really hard to remember this. Sometimes I backslide and forget... then get frustrated.... then have to step back and state the obvious to myself again: "Survive".

 

-Ryan

 

I am really bad about that too.  So too were many real pilots.  Most of them did not survive the war.

[PB0_Roll]

3 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

There is more to it than that.  Fighting over enemy territory = overclaim.   Losing = overclaim.  Fighting at higher altitude = overclaim.  

 

And that is not the reason for the 100+ victory German aces.  Time in combat is the reason.  Robert Johnson shot down more planes per mission than Erich Hartmann.  He just happened to fly 100  missions to Hartmann's 1500.  If American pilots flew as long and as often as German pilots they would also have credits in the 100s. 

 

Please do some research on the German scores.  It's down to missions flown and, on the eastern front, quality of the opponent.  Mostly missions flown.  Priller flew entirely in the west.  He flew over 300 missions and fought for the entire war, first day to last.  He scored 101, a bit more on a per mission basis than Johnson.  Hartmann only started flying in 1942 yet he amassed 1500 missions.  In the east, four or five missions per day was normal.  Again, fewer credited victories per mission than Johnson.

 

Truth is they were all full of it to some extent (not necessarily with intent) because we know that massive overclaims were a thing on all sides.  If we know that overclaims were a thing on all sides then it falls to reason that some of the guys doing the claiming were the ones who were overclaiming.  Except for the few that were straight up lying it shouldn't really matter.  They were among the best at what they did, whatever their real victory tally may have been.

 

 

What I meant is, since overclaim vs reality is generally documented tobe  3 for 1 on average (with more on occasion, less on others), 300/3=100, 200/3=66, and so on... without overclaim, there would be 3 aces over 100 victories and no more. Russian historians published a few years ago a research giving Hartmann around 80 victories. I kinda suspect there's some counter propaganda involved, but maybe not that much.

 

Obviously the reason wile german aces had many more than allies is time at the front , type of mission flown and ennemy quality. But still, overclaim vs reality was 3 to 1 on average. Fell free to think your own favorite ace had no overclaim, whatever his nationality.

[Airborne506]

1 hour ago, RyanR said:

 

 

Totally agree. Also, it can be really hard to remember this. Sometimes I backslide and forget... then get frustrated.... then have to step back and state the obvious to myself again: "Survive".

 

-Ryan

Oh absolutely. Took me a while to move away from the “Ace Combat” mindset of shooting down every plane in sight. Not downing any planes or just 1 in a mission would be more akin to the actual experience. Same with ground targets, even if I’m lined up on a good dive and think I release at the right time I might still miss and have to do the fly of shame back to base. I’m sure it happened plenty of times to plenty of pilots. 

[Irishratticus72]

I've never been shot down, can't even remember having a single bullet hole in my crate. Also, I've got over 800 confirmed kills.

[GasTeddy]

18 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

IRL, Soviets had strict rules for confirming kills, counting only ones which the ground forces could attest to. 

 

18 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Where have you read that? One thing that's a constant in the Black Cross / Red Star books is that the VVS grossly overclaimed victories, and it doesn't seem like the higher command didn't do much about it. That's why, for instance, it's been so hard to determine what Pokryshkin's actual score was. Bergstrom discusses this in the latest BC/RS volume, where he lists 3 or 4 possible scores he might've had, and they're all over the place.

 

Well, according to official Russian statistics during WW 2, they shot Finnish Air Force several times down every year. I also remember reading some Soviet fighter pilot autobiography at 80s. His squadron alone in few months shot down more planes whole FAF has, transports and trainers included. And never had any losses.

 

On the other hand, if you want to read an excellent Soviet aviator autobiography, I warmly recommend Vasily B Emelianenko's Red Star Against the Swastika: The Story of a Soviet Pilot over the Eastern Front. 

[LukeFF]

48 minutes ago, GasTeddy said:

On the other hand, if you want to read an excellent Soviet aviator autobiography, I warmly recommend Vasily B Emelianenko's Red Star Against the Swastika: The Story of a Soviet Pilot over the Eastern Front. 

 

Yes, I've read that and really enjoyed it. ?

 

49 minutes ago, GasTeddy said:

Well, according to official Russian statistics during WW 2, they shot Finnish Air Force several times down every year. I also remember reading some Soviet fighter pilot autobiography at 80s. His squadron alone in few months shot down more planes whole FAF has, transports and trainers included. And never had any losses.

 

It's quite similar to what happened over the Kuban Bridgehead in the spring of 1943 - grossly overoptimistic claims that have no basis in reality.

[PatrickAWlson]

6 hours ago, PB0_Roll said:

 

But still, overclaim vs reality was 3 to 1 on average. Fell free to think your own favorite ace had no overclaim, whatever his nationality.

 

I just said the exact opposite. Quit getting your knickers in a knot and actually read before responding.

[Varibraun]

On 12/9/2022 at 11:24 AM, PatrickAWlson said:

I am really bad about that too.  So too were many real pilots.  Most of them did not survive the war.

 

Yep...flying the Hurricane with .303s in your wonderful PWCG "late" BoB timeframe has brought that hard lesson home to me again...Thanks Pat! 

[RyanR]

On 12/6/2022 at 8:45 AM, LGeorgy said:

I bought IL2 not long ago, I tried to play some games online but I just got frustrations. Then I started a career to "train" but ended up discovering that it's much more fun than I imagined. Turns out I'm having some issues, I'm on my second career as a Yak-1 ser. 69 pilot., and I don't understand how, but my guns don't seem to do any damage, just luckily sometimes I end up ripping off an enemy's wing, on other occasions, I have to hit hundreds of shots, completely damage the enemy plane, chase only 1 during the entire battle, to make him fall. And believe me, it's not a lack of aim, the shots visibly hit, the gasoline, the oil, the water, everything starts to leak, sometimes I get close enough to see the entire fuselage of the opponent punctured, but the damned ones keep flying and maneuvering . I don't get it, shouldn't 20mm hits do more crippling damage? Also, my machine gun looks puny in battle, like I'm shooting beans. On the other hand, all NPCs, including my friends, seem to have impeccable aim, shooting long bursts without missing a single shot.

 

Changing the difficulty doesn't seem to make much difference, the only thing that makes a difference is changing the battle density, which usually makes the enemy have 10x more planes and all missions are impossible to complete

 

I saw that the career mode is played a lot by the community, does this only happen with the Yak-1? Do I need to install any mods? Or just lack of skill?

 

 

A dumb comment on my part, but make sure that you're indeed shooting the cannon (fires through the prop spinner) when guns and cannon are on two separate buttons. Sometimes the key mapping is just funky. Everyone here has probably had a weird problem with key bindings "taking". Most recently, I found the trim buttons that work on all earlier 109's weren't working on the 109G-6. I eventually figured it out, but it was just sorta.... weird.

 

The Yak-1's cannon is pretty good, but the MG is more of an accessory than useful. The Yak-1b got the UB machine gun, which is pretty potent.

 

-Ryan

On 12/9/2022 at 11:24 AM, PatrickAWlson said:

 

I am really bad about that too.  So too were many real pilots.  Most of them did not survive the war.

 

Sadly, one of my favorites was Bert Stiles. He wrote "Serenade to the Big Bird" (phenomenal B-17 memoir) in between his tour as a B-17 copilot and a tour flying the P-51. Target fixation on the deck.... no more Bert. A real loss. His writing style was humorous, sad, and frightening all in the same sentence.

 

-Ryan

[DRosa]

5 hours ago, RyanR said:

 

 

A dumb comment on my part, but make sure that you're indeed shooting the cannon (fires through the prop spinner) when guns and cannon are on two separate buttons. Sometimes the key mapping is just funky. Everyone here has probably had a weird problem with key bindings "taking". Most recently, I found the trim buttons that work on all earlier 109's weren't working on the 109G-6. I eventually figured it out, but it was just sorta.... weird.

 

 

All weapons are correctly set. I played War Thunder Sim in full manual before so im not coming here with no idea, but yeah, it was a sum of not knowing how weak were the 7.62 and pratice needed

[PB0_Roll]

On 12/10/2022 at 1:21 AM, PatrickAWlson said:

 

I just said the exact opposite. Quit getting your knickers in a knot and actually read before responding.

I can understand why you felt last sentence was aimed at you.

 

It wasn't, it was aimed to anyone whose favorite pilot has x kills confirmed wants to believe they were real, as OP suggested.

 

Sorry about confusion.

[PatrickAWlson]

3 hours ago, PB0_Roll said:

I can understand why you felt last sentence was aimed at you.

 

It wasn't, it was aimed to anyone whose favorite pilot has x kills confirmed wants to believe they were real, as OP suggested.

 

Sorry about confusion.

 

And in return, apologies for the snippy remark.  

[Sobilak]

On 12/9/2022 at 3:09 PM, PatrickAWlson said:

 

There is more to it than that.  Fighting over enemy territory = overclaim.   Losing = overclaim.  Fighting at higher altitude = overclaim.  

 

And that is not the reason for the 100+ victory German aces.  Time in combat is the reason.  Robert Johnson shot down more planes per mission than Erich Hartmann.  He just happened to fly 100  missions to Hartmann's 1500.  If American pilots flew as long and as often as German pilots they would also have credits in the 100s. 

 

Please do some research on the German scores.  It's down to missions flown and, on the eastern front, quality of the opponent.  Mostly missions flown.  Priller flew entirely in the west.  He flew over 300 missions and fought for the entire war, first day to last.  He scored 101, a bit more on a per mission basis than Johnson.  Hartmann only started flying in 1942 yet he amassed 1500 missions.  In the east, four or five missions per day was normal.  Again, fewer credited victories per mission than Johnson.

 

Truth is they were all full of it to some extent (not necessarily with intent) because we know that massive overclaims were a thing on all sides.  If we know that overclaims were a thing on all sides then it falls to reason that some of the guys doing the claiming were the ones who were overclaiming.  Except for the few that were straight up lying it shouldn't really matter.  They were among the best at what they did, whatever their real victory tally may have been.

Stanislaw Skalski ( 22-2-4) flew throughout the war from 1st september 1939 to 8th may 1945 (320 missions). Fought 29 dogfights (missions where he shot at the enemy). He claimed 22 confirmed kills, 5 shared, 2 probable and 4 damage. 22/320 is not very effective, but 22/29 is already 75% effective.

[danielprates]

I am sure overclaiming happened with all  nations but isn't the LW famous for the most rigorous confirmation methods out there? I think it is impossible that overclaiming is 2 to 1 or such propoetions. Claims demanded camera recors plus witness confirmation. The good folks at wikipedia (cough) say that some 90% of claims are solid:

 

( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_and_overclaiming_of_aerial_victories_during_World_War_II )

 

Also, one can imagine that there was an intentional discrepancy between kills granted to pilots, and propaganda, which is something else to consider.

[Lusekofte]

8 minutes ago, danielprates said:

I am sure overclaiming happened with all  nations but isn't the LW famous for the most rigorous confirmation methods out there? I think it is impossible that overclaiming is 2 to 1 or such propoetions. Claims demanded camera recors plus witness confirmation. The good folks at wikipedia (cough) say that some 90% of claims are solid:

 

( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_and_overclaiming_of_aerial_victories_during_World_War_II )

 

Also, one can imagine that there was an intentional discrepancy between kills granted to pilots, and propaganda, which is something else to consider.

Yes they were strict up to a point. But once it got propaganda value, all that was thrown away. 
When Soviet started to get momentum in their air war. Right after Stalingrad. There was no doubts Luftwaffe lived more dangerous. 

[Sgt_Joch]

Yes, the Luftwaffe being stricter in confirming kills is a myth. All sides overclaimed by about the same proportion. In Black Cross/Red Star, vol.2, the author compared claims vs real losses in march/april 42 and he found both sides were overclaiming by an average factor of 2-3 to 1. For example, in April 42, 1/77jg claimed 62 Soviet ACs shot down while the Soviet units on the other side only recorded 31 air combat losses for the same period.

 

You have to take whatever is written on WIKI with a huge grain of salt, especially anything about Germany in WW2. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Sgt_Joch

[danielprates]

12 minutes ago, Sgt_Joch said:

have to take whatever is written on WIKI with a huge grain of salt, especially anything about Germany in WW2. 

Edited 10 minutes ago by Sgt_Joch

 

Yeah, hence my "cough" there. Still, I though it was a given that the LW was stricter than other airforces, and not "on par" with say the VVS. That's a myth, you say? 

[Sgt_Joch]

well yes, best example is Erich Hartmann, the leading WW2 ace with 352 claimed kills, but as one researcher pointed out, only 70-80 of his kills can be positively confirmed. In most cases, he apparently shot down lone enemy ACs with only his wingman "confirming" his kills.

 

more info here:

 

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2010/03/erich-hartman-352-victories-or-80.html

 

Now, not having every claim totally backed up is not uncommon. In the case of many WW1 aces, there is a large disparity between "claimed" kills and the ones that can be proven from enemy records, but that is obviously not the strict procedure that the German Air Force claims to have used to confirm kills.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Sgt_Joch

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, danielprates said:

 

Yeah, hence my "cough" there. Still, I though it was a given that the LW was stricter than other airforces, and not "on par" with say the VVS. That's a myth, you say? 

 

To add to what @Sgt_Joch wrote, in BC/RS Vol. 5, it's shown that JG 3 was quite worse than other Luftwaffe units at over-claiming while flying over the Kuban Bridgehead in the spring of 1943. On average, a lot more questionable claims were made by their pilots during that period in comparison to JG 52, the other Geschwader operating in that area at that time.

Edited December 11, 2022 by LukeFF

[danielprates]

Another myth bites the dust.

[MikhaVT]

On 12/8/2022 at 10:28 AM, PatrickAWlson said:

So - if you shoot one down you did great.  If you shoot two down you did far better in a day than most pilots did in their careers.  Anything beyond that and you are in the top 1%.

i've got basically the opposite issue in my P-51 career. i'm shooting down 4+ enemy fighters in a single sortie *because my wingmen wont shoot enemies like at all* it's infuriating enough that i'll have to update PWCG and go back to using that for quick missions when i feel like flying! 

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, MikhaVT said:

i've got basically the opposite issue in my P-51 career. i'm shooting down 4+ enemy fighters in a single sortie *because my wingmen wont shoot enemies like at all* it's infuriating enough that i'll have to update PWCG and go back to using that for quick missions when i feel like flying! 

 

That doesn't make any sense at all. I have a stock P-51B career going right now, and I see the AI regularly shoot down enemy fighters. PWCG isn't going to fix any supposed issue with that.

[Knarley-Bob]

Figuring out your convergence and lead is paramount to knocking down enemy planes. You want your cone of fire "focused" so when you are hitting the target, you concentrate the damage to a small area, say the engine or cockpit. Hitting the target all over the place doesn't do too much damage, little holes all over, compared to a big hole in an important place. And, bigger guns make bigger holes. Watch your tracers, if you can, they will tell you if your convergence it too wide, and if you are shooting in front or behind the target. Practice makes perfect. When you start making hits, note where your gunsight is in relation to the target. Remember that, you'll soon learn where to shoot to hit the target, that way, you are learning marksmanship, and marksmanship kills birds.......... it takes a little time, hang in there.

 

KB

Edited December 16, 2022 by Knarley-Bob

[Bloke75Bloke75]

Long time reader / first time poster here .   

                                                                     For me ,  besides practicing gunnery skills  (  a lot of shooting down bombers + slow flying transports ) as mentioned already by previous posters  ,  one of the most important things i've discovered in flying single player career mode is knowing when to  " get the hell out of dodge "  .   That is , having an idea as to what way the air battle is progressing and realizing when the  " fur ball "  is suddenly full of enemy planes and your AI pals have disappeared   !!   

 

( P.s  It also helps , when flying your MIG3 ,  you depart the battle being chased by  109 E  and not the 109 F  !!    If its the 109 F  ,  leave a little earlier for a head start  !!  ? )