WinWing Orion 2 HOTAS Max.. Wow amazing!!

[Phat]

I'm just refreshing some gear and was wondering if anyone has any experience with the winwing HOTAS range?

Was hoping someone else has had some time with them to give any pointers with setup?

 

 

Throttle Base v2 Review
https://youtu.be/PmnxW_SmwmU

 

Stick Base v2 Review
https://youtu.be/4aOiZxWBDfI

 

In the silky tones of Rod Stewart... tonight's the night... it's gonna be alright!!!

Orion 2 HOTAS Max arrived!
My gawwwd this thing is so sexy and so incredibly well made!

Opening the 6 double walled boxes from the shipping box is like a mega Christmas present that just keeps giving!!
Assembly without manual was very straight forward.

Had to attach stick extension, F16 stick, F16Ex expansion buttons and rumble motor to stick and base..
Attach F18 throttle handles and finger lift throttle detent to throttle base..
Smooth cold touch of metal, and wow is this thing sturdy and heavy! 7.5Kg combined.

Wow stick and throttle movement feels like the real thing.. (sat in some old F3s and F4s on the weekend at Wings Over Illawarra for reference)

Can't wait to fire up IL2 and DCS, config and test!
 

PICS!!!!

Thoughts to follow...

 

F16 Stick without F16EX (expansion + rumble)

 

F16 Stick with F16EX (expansion + rumble)

 

F16EX (expansion)

 

 

 

 

Throttle

 

Next to X56 and new desk mounts

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amazing - I love it!!!  So much feel and control!  Tip for IL2 and other sims other than DCS and MSFS... Set Throttle to 4x32 mode to make all buttons and toggles available.

 

 

Meza Desk Mount works great!

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Phat

[CosmiC10R]

I nearly pulled the trigger too... 

 

How bad was duty and shipping?

[Phat]

8 hours ago, CosmiC10R said:

I nearly pulled the trigger too... 

 

How bad was duty and shipping?

Somehow got through without duties but freight was $200AUD.

Combo was $1328AUD or $899USD. ex freight.

 

The whole experience with this HOTAS is completely amazing.

Off centre accuracy and feel is smooth and progressive with no notchy or grabby behaviour, unlike any stick I've ever used. I guess that's the benefit of the dual axis dual cam tensioner design.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Phat

[Robli]

It is a good throttle, but for IL2 purposes it is missing a slider or rotary in a convenient location for zoom. For example X56 has these rotaries that you could use with thumb to zoom in and out, something that is needed when playing IL2 to scan/ID contacts, while Orion 2 does not have that. Out of curiosity, what are you using for zoom?

For DCS jets zoom is not really needed and this throttle is great especially for Hornet of course.

[1Sascha]

16 hours ago, Phat said:

Somehow got through without duties but freight was $200AUD.

If it's anything like in the EU, you'll be getting an invoice from the authorities in the next few weeks... ?

 

Congrats on the new setup... looks friggin awesome!

 

S.

[CosmiC10R]

thats sweet on the duty. 

 

I think my shipping for the two panels and the joystick and throttle was 400$ cdn so it really put the damper on it.

I ended up getting the butt kicker and the Boeing yoke for the bombers and c47 because of that.

 

Maybe next year as I spent a ton this year on a few other things that were time sensitive.

[BP_Lizard]

Sweet! Now, the ‘Vibration Feedback,’ is that similar to force feedback?

[cardboard_killer]

25 minutes ago, BP_Lizard said:

Sweet! Now, the ‘Vibration Feedback,’ is that similar to force feedback?

 

Yes, but it comes as a probe.

[1Sascha]

58 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

Yes, but it comes as a probe.

Err... the alien, Eric Cartman kinda probe? ?

 

S.

[Phat]

21 hours ago, Robli said:

It is a good throttle, but for IL2 purposes it is missing a slider or rotary in a convenient location for zoom. For example X56 has these rotaries that you could use with thumb to zoom in and out, something that is needed when playing IL2 to scan/ID contacts, while Orion 2 does not have that. Out of curiosity, what are you using for zoom?

For DCS jets zoom is not really needed and this throttle is great especially for Hornet of course.

 

I use the throttle handle spring loaded rotary for zoom. (On the front of handle)

 

12 hours ago, BP_Lizard said:

Sweet! Now, the ‘Vibration Feedback,’ is that similar to force feedback?

 

It's more like Rumble motors in your xbox or ps4 controllers than force feedback.  I haven't got it working in IL2 but it works in DCS. I'll try figure that out because it would be a good stick shake warning for stalls if it could be setup that way.

[ZenIT_SWE]

On 11/17/2022 at 10:35 AM, Phat said:

 

I use the throttle handle spring loaded rotary for zoom. (On the front of handle)

 

 

It's more like Rumble motors in your xbox or ps4 controllers than force feedback.  I haven't got it working in IL2 but it works in DCS. I'll try figure that out because it would be a good stick shake warning for stalls if it could be setup that way.

I'm working on an application that will parse the telemetry data from IL-2 and convert it to the format that it reads from DCS to get the vibration going, I'm focusing on AoA to begin with since that's what I would like to have myself (constantly finding myself stalling in dogfights). I actually reached out to WinWing and came in contact with one of their staff, they hadn't heard of IL-2 but seems excited about implementing support for it in SimApp Pro and asked me if I could share my stuff with them. So, in a near future we will have some kind of IL-2 support, either through my ugly hack or natively in SimApp Pro ?

[ZenIT_SWE]

So here it is: 

 

[:FI:Helo244]

   I just got my Orion 2 HOTAS. Awsome!

  Only issue so far is that now my Saitek Rudder pedals suddenly are no longer recognized by IL-2! Tried all sorts of online suggestions, including MANY restarts, shutting off the SimApp software, re-installing drivers, etc, but no luck. I've been flyihng IL-2 since 2003 and rely heavily on the rudder. Control panel recognizes my Orion Joystick and Throttle, and says I have Rudder Pedals. I'm currently at a loss for what to do. Are the Saitek/Logitech pedals just not compatible with the Orion HOTAS?

  

Edited February 10, 2024 by :FI:Helo244

[cardboard_killer]

2 hours ago, :FI:Helo244 said:

Only issue so far is that now my Saitek Rudder pedals suddenly are no longer recognized by IL-2!

 

IL-2 has a limit on controllers of 8, so you may be over that limit. Search the threads and you will find solutions.

[56RAF_phoenix56]

I've just had a painful experience migrating from a Warthog to Orion 2 F16 grip + Throttle with F18 handles. The hardware is really great, very smooth, much better than the Warthog stick with its V-notch centre.

So, cardboard_killer is absolutely right about the 8 joystick limit. but there's an even bigger problem with the Winwing & the GB sim - GB supports up to 64 buttons (I believe), but the Winwing hardware has way over 100. I thought to get around this by using joytokey and this seems to be successful for my currently very limited setup.

 

I did have to delete ALL the files in the input folder and start all over again in order to rectify considerable confusion in GB over axes and joysticks. The wrong axis would be used once in the cockpit, irrespective of the axis assigned in the GB GUI.

 

However, one problem I ran into was the GB key mapping failed to recognise one of the throttle axes, no matter how much I fiddled with it.

The solution was to guess at the axis letter (GB seems to sequentially name them p, q, r, s... x, y, z) and enter it directly into the global.actions file e.g.

rpc_engine_1_throttle,                            joy5_axis_t,                                      1| // Engine 1 throttle control

It doesn't seem to matter if you've guessed wrong, because the GB GUI then allows you to click on that axis and rediscover the right one.

 

I suspect there's a bug in the GB coding that discovers and assigns joystick axes.

 

56RAF_phoenix

 

EDIT: I still have the problem that the Orion 2 sends repeated button presses once a key has been used, stopping the use of Escape to end a flight. For now I'm ctrl-alt-deleting out of the game. Really, Winwing needs to have a mode where the change of state of a key is sent, rather than just the "disable middle button" option.

Edited February 18, 2024 by 56RAF_phoenix56
extra info

[[CPT]Crunch]

The ESC button has never worked as an assignable key for any controller button.  It's broken and has been since I started this sim, you can assign it to your hearts content but it won't ever work.

[56RAF_phoenix56]

Hi Crunch, that wasn't quite my point, even the keyboard Esc key is drowned out by the other key presses.

It's not as bad as I first thought, once I assigned gear up/down to the 3-state switches (e.g. 89 & 91 below) rather than the 2-state ones (75 & 76) and have the middle switch disabled (90) in SimPro.

I just have to remember to centre those 3-state switches.

To use the 2-state switches WinWing would have to add a mode to send a "change of state" signal, rather than constantly sending "this is my state".

This problem means I can't use throttle switches 30 and 31 to start engines because they send for ever more, but 1 and 2 do it ok.

 

56RAF_phoenix

Edited February 19, 2024 by 56RAF_phoenix56

[HazMatt]

Is winwing worth the extra money over VKB? How do these compare to Virpil? I'm done with the garbage TM, Logitech etc controllers and I'm looking to buy the best bang for the buck. I would something that's going to last 10 years if I'm going to spend 1k though because I don't seem to get but a year or 2 out of the other stuff.

[Aapje]

They are both good companies. VKB is probably the best bang for the buck in most cases.

[keithbriscoe99]

@56RAF_phoenix56 hi. Im desperately trying to get my orion2 throttle to work. 

 

Would you please share any of the latest tips and sequence of events?

 

Delete what files from what directory?

Do a reset on the in game key mapping page?

Do I need to go into Simappro first to make any changes (4×32 mode, disable center positionof 3 way toggles), or can I do those on the fly while in IL2?

I believe I've been able to map buttons from both the throttle grips and base... but cannot get the throttle axis to work.

 

Really appreciate any guidance!!

 

Keith

[BlackBadger]

Hey I'm using it without problems. Not heard on having to delete anything in il2.

 

Update simapp.

Update firmware on throttle via simapp - follow their directions(!). I believe it's to remove all other peripherals except mouse and keyboard, plug throttle directly into a mobo linked usb and run firmware update.

Plug peripherals back.

 

When about to play, plug throttle back in to a case mobo linked USB. NOT a usb-hub. Run simappro. Make it looks like below:

 

 

 

I like to keep that window open for the duration of use.

Run il2 and bind axis etc. Unfortunately some buttons don't work in il-2 anyway like these:

 

 

You can probably use joystick gremlin to map output to something else though. All else should work pretty well!

 

 

Edited April 15, 2024 by BlackBadger

[keithbriscoe99]

9 hours ago, BlackBadger said:

Hey I'm using it without problems. Not heard on having to delete anything in il2.

 

Update simapp.

Update firmware on throttle via simapp - follow their directions(!). I believe it's to remove all other peripherals except mouse and keyboard, plug throttle directly into a mobo linked usb and run firmware update.

Plug peripherals back.

 

When about to play, plug throttle back in to a case mobo linked USB. NOT a usb-hub. Run simappro. Make it looks like below:

 

 

 

I like to keep that window open for the duration of use.

Run il2 and bind axis etc. Unfortunately some buttons don't work in il-2 anyway like these:

 

 

You can probably use joystick gremlin to map output to something else though. All else should work pretty well!

 

 

Thank you so much for your reply and directions. I will try these. And to be clear, it seems you do NOT actually put throttle base into 4x32 mode?

[BlackBadger]

yeah how i have it on the screenshot is how it's setup. i don't know if it indicates "press to switch to 4x32" or "currently in "4x32" 😕 but basically that's how i use it.

[56RAF_phoenix56]

On 4/14/2024 at 3:35 AM, keithbriscoe99 said:

@56RAF_phoenix56 hi. Im desperately trying to get my orion2 throttle to work. 

 

Would you please share any of the latest tips and sequence of events?

 

Delete what files from what directory?

Do a reset on the in game key mapping page?

Do I need to go into Simappro first to make any changes (4×32 mode, disable center positionof 3 way toggles), or can I do those on the fly while in IL2?

I believe I've been able to map buttons from both the throttle grips and base... but cannot get the throttle axis to work.

 

Really appreciate any guidance!!

 

Keith

Sorry for the late reply.

I've now got the Winwing generic F18-style throttle and F-16 joystick working really, really well.

 

The solution is basically not to use 4x32 mode or anything in SimappPro other than selecting which mode you want the various switches to operate in.

So, there are two main problems and a lesser problem to solve when using the Winwing:

1. It has far more switches than most joystick programs can see;
2. many of the switches are bi-stable and il2 interprets this as repeated key-presses;
3. the lesser problem is that il2 has a switch timing problem where "modifier" keys (shift, control, alt...) are not seen to be pressed at the right time.

Though there is another piece of software on the ED forums that I've not tried, the only solution to these issues that I've found is Joystick Gremlin. Note that you have to download and install vjoy first. Do take the advice to disconnect your joysticks when you first install. That confused me for a while.

All the usual security warnings about free downloaded software apply.

 

I think you have to create new virtual joysticks using vjoy to map your Winwing keys to. There may be a way to avoid the extra virtual joysticks, but I've not tried. I believe il2 can see 64 buttons, so with the 100+ and all the axes on the Winwing, I use 2 virtual joysticks and hide the Winwing ones using vjoy so as not to go over the game limit of 8 joysticks.

 

The Joystick Gremlin interface is a little clunky and slow to use, but not too bad once you've got the idea. There are plenty of youtube tutorials to give you the basics.

 

JG can see all your Winwing buttons, so that's problem 1 solved.

The solution to problem 2 is not to use the JG "remap" mode, but use the "macro" mode to send single key presses. "Remap" would suffer from the same problem with the repeated key presses.

The solution to problem 3 is to put a 0.1 second delay in the "macro" between a modifier key (shift, control, alt...) and the main key press. Similarly after the main key press before you release the modifier.

 

The final thing I advise is to use SimAppPro to remove the central dead-zone (by setting to zero, if I remember correctly).

 

Once you've done these things, you'll have a truly sensitive and functional setup.

 

56RAF_phoenix

 

Edit: After deleting the dead zone it is essential to recalibrate the joystick using SimAppPro.

 

P.S. Sorry the instructions are not very comprehensive, I thought I'd better get a reply out fast rather than complete.

Edited May 5, 2024 by 56RAF_phoenix56
extra info