Why Isn't Desert Wings - Tobruk [More] Popular?

[BladeMeister]

9 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

 

Mine was a genuine question if you read it again. I was respectful and if you re-read it I think it has some interesting points to understand from? 

Wasn't considering you one of the three Sir. Respectfully one can ask questions, call out problems and even criticize blatant mistakes without becoming personally insulting, emotional or adding attitude. The past is the past, there is no changing it now. To highly like or love CLOD/DWT is to realize it still has huge potential, to be thankful that TFS is still working to release that potential and to respectfully encourage TFS even through constructive criticism.

 

S!Blade<><

[Avimimus]

I'm actually flying it less due to the potential. I've focused on other things now to free up time once the new map update is released... so it is getting less use in anticipation of it getting much more use.

[Trooper117]

I'm looking forward to that new desert terrain...

[BladeMeister]

Me to and I am hoping the actual landing strips in the desert will be easier to see and land on with the 4k terrain.

 

S!Blade<><

[AKAvMAN]

On 11/7/2022 at 12:21 AM, Feldgrun said:

With excellent flight & damage modeling, and with an excellent selection of mid-war aircraft, why isn't this game more popular? Steam Charts says in the last 30 days, the game had 0.0 players. CLoD Blitz had 23.2 players in 30 days, but you can see numbers dropping over time. Some have said CLoD & Tobruk are better flight simulators, but BoX is a better game. I'd agree with that, to a degree. 

 

What's wrong? Did CLoD's initial disastrous introduction taint the entire franchise? Is it because of the lack of VR, and if so, will that help it gain in popularity?  

The chart for Tobruk will always be 0.  It's not it's own game or executable. You must launch CLoD to use it. 
So anyone playing Tobruk will only show up on the CLoD charts. 

[Feldgrun]

On 12/15/2022 at 11:34 PM, AKAvMAN said:

The chart for Tobruk will always be 0.  It's not it's own game or executable. You must launch CLoD to use it. 
So anyone playing Tobruk will only show up on the CLoD charts. 

If the charts show both, the number of players for the entire series is abysmally low. 

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

19 minutes ago, Feldgrun said:

If the charts show both, the number of players for the entire series is abysmally low. 

Yes, your assessment is correct. And it isn‘t something new, unfortunately ?

[Hiuuz]

One thing brings me back to CloD, is the simulator aspect. I love the complex engine management and knowing that "under the hood" are "things" what are working! BoX can't give me the feeling, that I'm sitting in a real plane. I mean, it looks good, the overall immersion is at high level, but I still have the feeling that it's just a game.

 

On the other hand I think after the upcoming update TFS needs more focus to bugfixing and polishing the existing game than making new content. Falcon BMS is a good example. Main focus on the F16 and Korea. Not much but working very well!

[Gunfreak]

3 hours ago, Hiuuz said:

One thing brings me back to CloD, is the simulator aspect. I love the complex engine management and knowing that "under the hood" are "things" what are working! BoX can't give me the feeling, that I'm sitting in a real plane. I mean, it looks good, the overall immersion is at high level, but I still have the feeling that it's just a game.

 

On the other hand I think after the upcoming update TFS needs more focus to bugfixing and polishing the existing game than making new content. Falcon BMS is a good example. Main focus on the F16 and Korea. Not much but working very well!

 

I agree. I flew IL2 a few months(mostly FC1) then the WW2 stuff and it was cool.

I jumped into DCS  both jets and warbirds. And while DCS ww2 is lacking many things. The planes feel "real" the sounds,  the graphics, the interaction. In IL2 the planes don't feel special. Clod feels more like DCS than IL2 in that way.

[Dagwoodyt]

3 hours ago, Hiuuz said:

One thing brings me back to CloD, is the simulator aspect. I love the complex engine management and knowing that "under the hood" are "things" what are working! BoX can't give me the feeling, that I'm sitting in a real plane. I mean, it looks good, the overall immersion is at high level, but I still have the feeling that it's just a game.

 

On the other hand I think after the upcoming update TFS needs more focus to bugfixing and polishing the existing game than making new content. Falcon BMS is a good example. Main focus on the F16 and Korea. Not much but working very well!

I am puzzled by assertion that Blitz CEM is superior to other sims. In Blitz I fly mostly Spitfire 1a/100 and Martlet and don't seem to need to do much of anything to keep those airplanes running happily. I fly only VR if available but find TO and landings in BoX to be more involving in BoX than in Blitz in 2D. Maybe that will be different in Blitz if the Visual Update ever drops. That is a problem also since one can only guess how much time is available to the relevant Team members to work on essential components of the Update project. One thing that sticks out is that Blitz doesn't provide native support for Tacview. Both BoX and DCS do so. Assertions about Blitz AI behavior thus cannot be evaluated independently.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

@Dagwoodyt

 

I wouldn‘t relate quality of CEM to difficulty. Set your levers to run at the parameters described in the aircraft manual (real one even I‘d say) and you should be good. In all three sims, really.
But what kills it for me in BoS is the timers and how damage is handled. Even when flying without technochat I keep counting seconds in my head so not to blow up my engine past the 2 minute mark or whatever.
When it damages the engine isn’t always that hard of a cut and it varies a bit too, depending on how you were running your engine, so it isn’t as many people think timer ends and out.
But I prefer how CloD does it. You can watch your temps and usually you will be ok for a bit longer if they don‘t stay up for too long. But try for example to overrev the 109E-3 and quickly you will have oil on your windshield, before the temperature even rises that much.
Another example: I‘ve managed to damage my 109F-4 derated engine after running it for 2,5 hours non stop at full ata. Even though it never went above the 114 dC.

 

Regarding tacview, that‘s a good idea. Once ATAG is back online (yeah, not gonna make any jokes ?) there is a thread from Oskar with how to use tacview with CloD. I‘m not sure if it picks up AI aircraft too (hopefully) but that would be worth checking out in one of those populated missions. Would also answer your question about what are all the a/c doing if they don‘t show up in the event log (probably in cruise home mode after a short while and not interacting with each other; known problem…).

 

 

Not sure what to think about to and landings in both. Ground handling for me in BoX feels very wrong. The breaks don‘t work. But besides that, they are pretty much the same to me when landing and taking off. Never really noticed anything. And I can‘t compare it to anything else other than DCS, so…

 

[Dagwoodyt]

I knew that was coming. An ATAG kludge is not native Tacview support.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

9 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I knew that was coming. An ATAG kludge is not native Tacview support.

Well, this is CloD after all, isn‘t it?
 

Of course it isn‘t native support, never said it was. But it‘s the only real option. The other one being not using Tacview at all and keep wondering what happened to those 100 AI aircraft you never got to meet during the mission (if this workaround shows them, of course).

 

I honestly don‘t expect tacview support to become native anytime soon.

[Gunfreak]

Landing and take off is very similar in DCS and CloD.

 

Landing a spitfire in both of those is quite easy and logical. Just put her down, mabye a bit of rudder at the beginning. Then just let her stop by herself if you got a long enough runway. 

 

In IL2 for some reason the spitfire will do a violent pirouette for no reason once you hit a magical speed on landing. 

If you can land a spitfire in DCS  you can land one in Clod and the reverse. Not so in IL2.

[jollyjack]

IL2 and spitfire; is there a tail lock needed (and possible?) with landing? In FW190s it''s pulling the stick back during roll-outs ..

[Dagwoodyt]

Whatever real or imagined “authenticity” deficiencies the other flight sims might suffer from they don’t seem to be driving the market toward Blitz. Hopefully the Update will launch in 2023.

 

 

 

 

[BBAS_Tiki_Joe]

I'm greatly looking forward to doing some flying over on Blitz, and Turbrok. Just waiting on the VR drop, but even then, I don't know if I can go without my Buttkicker. As far as I know Clod does not support it.

[DD_Arthur]

2 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Landing and take off is very similar in DCS and CloD.

I am lol.

[OBT-Eazy]

7 hours ago, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

@Dagwoodyt

 

 

Regarding tacview, that‘s a good idea. Once ATAG is back online (yeah, not gonna make any jokes ?) there is a thread from Oskar with how to use tacview with CloD. I‘m not sure if it picks up AI aircraft too (hopefully) but that would be worth checking out in one of those populated missions. 

 

 

I'm the developer of the TacViewRecorder for CloD.
All flying planes (players and AI) are recorded.  The recorder works on Channel and Tobruk.
All you need to do is add a few lines of code in the mission script.  Works too on single missions if you create a script for them.
The big limitation is this tool can't deal with projectile ballistics (bullet, shell, bomb, torpedo). 
Those datas are processed deep within the core of the game and are not available at the level where the recorder runs (mission level).  Sorry but it's the best I can do.

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by OBT-Eazy
spelling, grammar

[OBT-Eazy]

5 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I knew that was coming. An ATAG kludge is not native Tacview support.

Thank you so much!
I never expected less from you.

[Dagwoodyt]

2 hours ago, OBT-Eazy said:

Thank you so much!
I never expected less from you.

Thanks for your work on Tacview implementation. NTL if the OP is about issues that might hinder Blitz' popularity, Blitz' reliance on such user made workarounds should be fair game.

[Gunfreak]

7 hours ago, BBAS_Tiki_Joe said:

I'm greatly looking forward to doing some flying over on Blitz, and Turbrok. Just waiting on the VR drop, but even then, I don't know if I can go without my Buttkicker. As far as I know Clod does not support it.

They have talked about adding it, after this big update is complete. I hope they do. I love my simshaker pad.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

I wish TFS could quadruple in size. The development pace is just soooooo slow that it never pulls me into the game. I've been playing CLoD since 2013 but it can never keep my interest due to all of its faults and how limited it is in terms of theaters and planes available.

[Dagwoodyt]

On 12/19/2022 at 9:13 AM, OBT-Eazy said:

I'm the developer of the TacViewRecorder for CloD.
All flying planes (players and AI) are recorded.  The recorder works on Channel and Tobruk.
All you need to do is add a few lines of code in the mission script.  Works too on single missions if you create a script for them.
The big limitation is this tool can't deal with projectile ballistics (bullet, shell, bomb, torpedo). 
Those datas are processed deep within the core of the game and are not available at the level where the recorder runs (mission level).  Sorry but it's the best I can do.

 

If we are talking "add(ing) a few lines of code in the mission script" why not just post instructions to this forum too? ?

Edited December 22, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

I agree on the point about IL2 BoX timers versus CLOD/Tobruk engine limitations. The timer system in BoX is kind of artificial feeling and some engines (P-40E for example) just blow up with minimal provocation. Whereas in CLOD/Tobruk you can blow an engine certainly, but you're not dealing with some of the weird and artificial limitations from BoX. That and the P-40 in Tobruk handles a lot like the descriptions from the time period, whereas the BoX P-40 has some serious issues.