Team Fusion

[66Veteran-]

Hi Team Fusion (Buzzsaw)

 

i just read your post, i think the most CloD player kow your work and are very happy you makt this all for us WW2 Flight sim players.

 

Here i will get a great thank you for the Team Fusion

 

I am a big IL2 Sturmovik Fan since the first day`s and i make many campaigns and Mods for it.

The last one the german Radio calls for CloD.

 

So we all know what we have with CloD and the Best Modder Team Team Fusion.

 

I wisch a big run when the new Grafic Update come out.

 

Greets Veteran66

 

 

 

[Mysticpuma]

I completely agree with the comment that "the CLIFFS engine has not really scratched the surface of its potential.  With a full time development team I think it would be the best Flight Sim out there."

 

I remember 8-years-ago in the early days of CloD modding when 3D contrails were enabled. They look so much better, however there were issues as the particle limit would overload the CPU and the contrails would vanish. I understand now though, the graphics are much more GPU loaded that CPU, so maybe there may be a possibility of them returning one day.

 

 

 

I honestly can't put my finger on it but CloD just looks more authentic to me than BoX but in the time it has taken to develop the visual update, I think BoX (yes a full-time studio) have released 3 (4?) modules. That doesn't mean quantity is better than quality, but it is obvious that the BoX engine is reaching its limits, CloD on the other hand really feels like a Pandora's box (in a good way) of opportunity.

I personally believe that is why there is a lot of frustration, simply because the potential is there, but it is hamstrung by it not being a full time team (which is understandable of course as most TFS work is as said, a hobby). The scope is immense, anyone seeing the online battles with 128 players knows the net code is solid, the graphics have issues, but coding is underway to fix them.

Everyone knows the potential, it's just frustrating that some of the forum members/Flight sim community members out there who have the ability have either left the team (or given up on the Sim), or personal differences means they will not be invited in. The skill set is out there, time is the issue

However, we wait patiently (and usually vocally) for any nugget of information and assume now it's down to Fulqrum Publishing to announce the next expansion when they feel ready?

Cheers, wishing the team good luck, Mysticpuma

[No.54_Reddog]

I just wish that TFS (as far as I can see mainly Buzzsaw) + the fanboi in chief Kintaro could drop the rhetoric that those unhappy or critical of repeated missteps are somehow out to destroy the game or TFS. I do not know of one person who has played CLOD, past or present, that wants that outcome and I certainly do not.

 

The great sense of frustration I personally feel is based on the lack of response to legitimate complaints and criticism, the lack of transparency in prioritization of work including the addressing of longstanding bugs reported, and the absolute lack of competent project management.  (and based on the volume and breadth of private conversations I've been party to I'm not alone - this includes quite a few TFS members past and present btw) 

 

The post about VR and the visual update is a point in case. The original release date was not met by some margin, the revised date was not met, another date was announced to be met with immediate speculation by the community that it was unlikely to be met with no inside knowledge and lo and behold it's now been acknowledged it is unlikely.

All of these release dates were caveated with "hope", "intend" or other such words meaning no line in the sand or guarantees, we understand this. But as a project manager supervising multiple work streams you should be able to understand what sort of timelines you as a team are capable of meeting. I am not aware of TF ever managing to achieve a date they themselves have put out there. 

[OBT-Lionel]

Reddog,

 

What do you prefer, that they spend time answering the questions we ask ourselves or that they advance in the development of the game?

[Blitzen]

Wunderbar...

[Buzzsaw]

6 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

I just wish that TFS (as far as I can see mainly Buzzsaw) + the fanboi in chief Kintaro could drop the rhetoric that those unhappy or critical of repeated missteps are somehow out to destroy the game or TFS. I do not know of one person who has played CLOD, past or present, that wants that outcome and I certainly do not.

 

The great sense of frustration I personally feel is based on the lack of response to legitimate complaints and criticism, the lack of transparency in prioritization of work including the addressing of longstanding bugs reported, and the absolute lack of competent project management.  (and based on the volume and breadth of private conversations I've been party to I'm not alone - this includes quite a few TFS members past and present btw) 

 

The post about VR and the visual update is a point in case. The original release date was not met by some margin, the revised date was not met, another date was announced to be met with immediate speculation by the community that it was unlikely to be met with no inside knowledge and lo and behold it's now been acknowledged it is unlikely.

All of these release dates were caveated with "hope", "intend" or other such words meaning no line in the sand or guarantees, we understand this. But as a project manager supervising multiple work streams you should be able to understand what sort of timelines you as a team are capable of meeting. I am not aware of TF ever managing to achieve a date they themselves have put out there. 

Almost every single major professional game developer out there routinely fail to meet their targets for release.  (I can't think of any who finished to their projected dates)

 

Even companies like Microsoft, in the development of the latest version flight simulator, with a budget of 100 of millions of dollars, failed to deliver their product on time.  (or complete... it was released as a work in progress)

 

So should Team Fusion be held to a higher standard?.... Even though we have always had a development budget of ZERO dollars for our members?

 

We have finished both BLITZ and TOBRUK to the satisfaction of 1C and its Executives, Jason and the senior 1C Executives were very complimentary to our Team and management.  They are happy to see us continue our work... and they continue to agree to all our development proposals.  I have never heard anything negative from them regarding us failing to meet deadlines or the pace of our development.

 

Sure TF as a group can get over-optimistic about the pace of development and sometimes because we DO want to encourage our community, we make mistakes in projecting our progress.  Blame us... sure.

 

As for the suggestion TF is mismanaged...  When your entire Team is being paid ZERO dollars during development, and expected to work long hours doing extremely complicated work... in the case of programmers often work which requires writing entirely new code for effects that are on the cutting edge of game simulation... doing this in their precious spare time instead of enjoying life with friends and family...  and all you have to encourage them is positive words... the common incentives, i.e.  money,  bonuses, threat they might lose their job do not apply...  and then to say the same management is not doing enough to get more production out of those same team members...   Maybe the critics need to reflect a little more.  ?

[TimSell75]

I bought the game when VR wasn´t even a thing. I see it as a free upgrade which I never expected. Take the time you need!

 

Compare it to other games like from Ubisoft. You pay for the game and then you almost pay double the price for a season pass. And of course 2 years later the next version of the game does it all over again. Nothing is free there, especially not if we talk about years of constant development and improvement.

Edited October 27, 2022 by TimSell75

[BladeMeister]

8 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

I just wish that TFS (as far as I can see mainly Buzzsaw) + the fanboi in chief Kintaro could drop the rhetoric that those unhappy or critical of repeated missteps are somehow out to destroy the game or TFS. I do not know of one person who has played CLOD, past or present, that wants that outcome and I certainly do not.

 

The great sense of frustration I personally feel is based on the lack of response to legitimate complaints and criticism, the lack of transparency in prioritization of work including the addressing of longstanding bugs reported, and the absolute lack of competent project management.  (and based on the volume and breadth of private conversations I've been party to I'm not alone - this includes quite a few TFS members past and present btw) 

 

The post about VR and the visual update is a point in case. The original release date was not met by some margin, the revised date was not met, another date was announced to be met with immediate speculation by the community that it was unlikely to be met with no inside knowledge and lo and behold it's now been acknowledged it is unlikely.

All of these release dates were caveated with "hope", "intend" or other such words meaning no line in the sand or guarantees, we understand this. But as a project manager supervising multiple work streams you should be able to understand what sort of timelines you as a team are capable of meeting. I am not aware of TF ever managing to achieve a date they themselves have put out there. 

Same old crap. No dates have ever been promised that were not stated as 'subject to change'. Since you seem to be so good at telling TFS and Buzzsaw how bad of a job they are doing and how mismanaged that TFS is, why don't you join TFS and straighten everything out. You put in the hours with no pay on your own time and get this production back on track? Instead of running your mouth and bad talking the team and their rate of progress or quality of work, get your ass to work and right the ship since you think it is capcised. Stop running your mouth and get to work Reddog. Please explain to me, and well the whole community while your at it why you don't help this disasterous process out, since you know how this development team should be run, instead of coming on here time and again and again and attacking and bad mouthing TFS and Buzzsaw???

 

S!Blade<><

[Enceladus828]

3 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Almost every single major professional game developer out there routinely fail to meet their targets for release.  (I can't think of any who finished to their projected dates)

I agree here. For 1CGS, they maintained until early December 2017 that Battle of Kuban would be released in December, then it got pushed back to late January with worst-case scenario being March. Well, it turned out to be worst case scenario. Also, in November 2017 it was stated that Drop Tanks would arrive during the Bodenplatte development cycle (at the latest November 2019), well it's the end of the Normandy development cycle and they're still not here so that just further proves Buzzsaw's point.

 

And I'd also add that every game has issues in it and problems that are very frustrating that remain unfixed or unaddressed for a long time, even if the people making it work full time.

 

Lastly, if you need more people to join TFS, could you make a request like you did back in 2016? Team Fusion Simulations request for 3D Modellers - Can you help? - YouTube

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Enceladus

[OBT-Eazy]

I prefer to exercise my patience and be sure that the product will be delivered when it meets the requirements of the developers. I don't want a product forever-in-early-access (without mentioning any names...).

I dare not imagine if TFS releases a release full of bugs because some people want a release date engraved in stone. Those will have no mercy and will treat TFS as a whole (3D artists, devs, integrators, managers) as incapable.

I come to think that the frustration of many here has its source elsewhere in their lives and not in a lack of images, videos and WIP update of the evolution of a video game.  Just a thought. 

GO TFS, GO!

Edited October 27, 2022 by OBT-Eazy

[BOO]

1 hour ago, BladeMeister said:

Same old crap. 

Was this a disclaimer to what followed? 

[Boomerang]

What Buzzsaw said totally makes sense to me.

If people like something, "support" it, anything less makes no sense at all really. Neither does a toxic environment, how doe's that help anything?

People will never be truly satisfied if they continually make comparisons.

Having an opinion can be more beneficial when mutual respect exists. 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Boomerang

[Dagwoodyt]

If comparisons must be made want to be comparing successes ?

[No.54_Reddog]

6 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

Same old crap. No dates have ever been promised that were not stated as 'subject to change'. Since you seem to be so good at telling TFS and Buzzsaw how bad of a job they are doing and how mismanaged that TFS is, why don't you join TFS and straighten everything out. You put in the hours with no pay on your own time and get this production back on track? Instead of running your mouth and bad talking the team and their rate of progress or quality of work, get your ass to work and right the ship since you think it is capcised. Stop running your mouth and get to work Reddog. Please explain to me, and well the whole community while your at it why you don't help this disasterous process out, since you know how this development team should be run, instead of coming on here time and again and again and attacking and bad mouthing TFS and Buzzsaw???

 

S!Blade<><

Oh boy you're right, why didn't I think of that. Let me know when I start. 

[BOO]

What gets me down is the piling on. There is a concerted effort by some to shout down any dissent. Encouraged for sure by the "likes" that often accompany such posts from TFS members themselves and their close mates.  All this has lead to the on line equivalent of trench warfare. Every thread started follows the same inevitable path. It makes contrubuting anything but praise pointless.

 

If people want to cheer and holler from the sidelines fine. Just accept its a public parade and there are those that dont and feel they have their reasons for not doing so. The majority of what Reddog talks about can only be fully answered by TFS. But instead every man and his dog chimes in with their truth. Me included and I try to do it less.. 

 

For what I understand Reddog was around close to the start of TFS. He has probably the best understanding of any of us, TFS included, about what makes a MP dynamic camapign sertver work well and what, in the game, works against it. I also believe he has made efforts, over the years to assist TF and TFS but no middle ground was found (kinda important I think when you are asking folk to work for free and I am not well enough informed to lay blame at doors). I know also that he's not the only one who has found this even from my limited interaction with other  talented members of the community out there.. Perhaps TFS had their reasons, perhaps those reasons were sound. Perhaps not. 

 

My personal experience of being a lowly beta tester for TFS  rings true to what Reddog has alluded to over time. So yeah, all the stuff about motivting volunteers is true but equally its a skill I found sorely lacking in some.  

 

 

[OBT-Lionel]

BOO,

 

I always have trouble with people who spend their time criticizing but doing nothing.

[blue_max]

Team Fusion is doing a great work and I really enjoy the products! Every extra patch is just icing on the cake. Don't let the haters get you down

[BOO]

Just now, OBT-Lionel said:

BOO,

 

I always have trouble with people who spend their time criticizing but doing nothing.

I get that. But equally there are many who opine on here who do exactly that to those who take the opposite view to them. I dont believe Reddog critises without reason. I think many of his points have at least some validation. I can only speak from own experience. 

 

Personally I have problems with people who dont so much as say "thank you" to someone who has given up 600 hours of their time over 3 months to help when they are forced to quit to look after their family, someone who didnt spend that time arsing about in mocked up seaplanes but instead tried to do what was asked.  I have problems with people who turn up in coms once in 3 months of testing and are rude, arrogant and aggressive to others. I have problems with people who ask me to test something then snipe at the observations made against actual pilot notes despite extolling the accuracy of their work. I have problems with pointing stuff out to be shouted down and told to get a better computer (ironically the stuff TFS are trying to fix right now). I have problems with having no direction and wondering what the hell Im supposed to be doing at any certain point in time. I could go on but would probably breach the NDA.

 

As I said - motivation isnt just a set of circumstances, its a skill that is present in some, absent in others. 

[Dagwoodyt]

What do "haters" have to do with anything? If a software serves user needs more and more people will buy and use it. The number of active users should increase  accordingly. That will be reflected in game stats and forum activity. Has that happened with Blitz?

[DBS]

The way I see it is I don't have the right to demand anything from the dev's regarding a FREE update that was not advertised when I bought the game. This would apply even if the devs were not unpaid volunteers.

 

Is it not enough that the work continues, regardless of the pace? If it weren't for TFS you wouldn't be playing this game, never mind be expecting the visual/VR update.

[OBT-Lionel]

Dagwoodyt,

 

I am one of the haters of Great battle.

At one point the developers took a direction that did not suit me.

I made it known on the forums.

When I realized they wouldn't change their minds, I uninstalled the game and stopped going to the "great battle" forums.

[Buffo002]

Exactly, if someone doesn't like something about the game, stop playing it or don't play it, but don't insult the development team. When it happens, it will be, I don't even play VR online and I don't complain that graphics updates etc. are delayed because of VR, I'm still waiting for the single player mod, the pilot diary for static campaigns and I don't complain about the team because the single player mod isn't ready, etc. .

[SCG_motoadve]

CLOD is a lot more immersive than IL2, damage model, effects, smokes, lots of planes, maps, new sky will be amazing plus speed trees.

FM Feeling of flying IMHO IL2 is better, and the only department that its better than CLOD

Once VR is ready, IMHO it will be the best sim for WWII, it is just very immersive.

This is why IL2 community demand more planes, more maps, more things all the time, because it gets boring.

Edited October 28, 2022 by SCG_motoadve

[BladeMeister]

7 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

Oh boy you're right, why didn't I think of that.

You didn't think of that because you would rather sit around and and do nothing but complain and insult TFS on this Forum, when if not for TFS no one would be developing CLOD. The only thing you and Boo achieve is stir up and encourage the people that appreciate what TF has done in the past and what TFS is doing now. So one of you was a Beta tester and the other ran a server, who cares, neither of you is involved in any positive or constructive way now, yet you both feel entitled to make claims of mismanagement. I have no respect for those that feel entitled to undercut and insult a volunteer group who's only desire is to attempt to further CLOD's content and better it's simulation of air combat to the best of their ability. No matter whether TFS succeeds or fails, I will be supportive of them for having a vision and making the effort to realize that vision through hard work. To each person working on TFS, S! Keep up the good work and know that your supporters way outnumber those that seek to insult and belittle you. Their non productive negativity amounts to nothing compared to the efforts you are striving to make to further CLOD/DWT.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

 

S!Blade<><

Edited October 28, 2022 by BladeMeister

[Dagwoodyt]

7 minutes ago, DBS said:

The way I see it is I don't have the right to demand anything from the dev's regarding a FREE update that was not advertised when I bought the game. This would apply even if the devs were not unpaid volunteers.

 

Is it not enough that the work continues, regardless of the pace? If it weren't for TFS you wouldn't be playing this game, never mind be expecting the visual/VR update.

Who specifically is making demands? The Visual Update Package was announced by TFS. FAIK it may never be released. Even if it eventually surfaces it may provide only temporary improvement in user stats as it does not address GUI issues. Blitz swims or sinks in present form for the foreseeable future. Forum actvity generated mainly by recurring threads such as this probably don't encourage outsider enthusiasm. BTW I don't even know that the Update delay into 2023 has even been announced in the Steam forum.

[354thFG_Leifr]

Reddog, hmm - never heard of him!

It's not like he's responsible for the best part of the Storm of War campaigns over the years... ?

---

A legitimate question for @Buzzsaw. Will you be leaving these forums at some point? Your post (since you keep immediately locking things) didn't make it clear; 1C Entertainment has been sold to Tencent and is now known as Fulqrum Publishing, what will happen to this corner of the IL2 forum?

Edited October 28, 2022 by Leifr

[DBS]

Just now, Dagwoodyt said:

Who specifically is making demands? The Visual Update Package was announced by TFS. FAIK it may never be released. Even if it eventually surfaces it may provide only temporary improvement in user stats as it does not address GUI issues. Blitz swims or sinks in present form for the foreseeable future. Forum actvity generated mainly by recurring threads such as this probably don't encourage outsider enthusiasm. BTW I don't even know that the Update delay into 2023 has even been announced in the Steam forum.

 

Demands was perhaps too strong a word, but in my brief time here I get the distinct impression that a few people seem to think they should get more updates from TFS.

 

I can get the frustration, but I can't get how they can't recognise that this is a volunteer project. They are doing it because they love/appreciate the sim, and I'd imagine most if not all of them have other full time jobs.

 

My point is people are angry that they do not yet have new content, despite them not paying anything for it. Which is kind of mental to me, even before considering these are volunteers.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

What pisses me off about this whole situation, and I think this is what Reddog and Boo also feel, maybe even Dagwoodyt, is that CloD has a lot of potential as Motodve pointed and a lot of us know. 
But we don‘t get to enjoy all this potential because development pace is glacial, there are no constant development updates and the game is pretty much dead for whatever reason I won‘t be going into here (wouldn’t change anything).

 

Right now it’s „it‘s here when it’s here“ mode which might as well mean „I‘ll check it in a few years and in case there is something new I‘ll check it out“. Except there is a huge chance people will have moved on.

Like they have.

 

Look at this video Enigma posted an hour or so ago: 

 

Got 86 people to install 1946 and join an online campaign, because they wanted to enjoy big battles with AI. It‘s 1946 for God’s sakes.

CloD doesn’t even get a mention. People don‘t even mention CloD. It‘s either BoS or 1946.

People reenact BoB with Spit Vs, 109E-7 and a dozen planes in the air in BoS. Instead of doing it in CloD!

 

Why can’t we get 86 people to participate in such an online event? Why can‘t we get 86 people online at one point like we did 7 or so years ago? Why can‘t people just play CloD if they want to recreate the scenarios it has?
North Africa in BoS is something that has been requested. BoB also. Why not play CloD when it already does it and in a very good way?

 

I don’t bash TFS and I am glad they do what they do, because if not, CloD would have been dead. I tried to get on with BoS and DCS and still play them, but CloD is still my favorite and I came back to it in a heartbeat when Tobruk released, but I understand the frustration. The difference is only the way it‘s expressed. 

But like I‘ve said a few times, for whatever reason that may be, Dagwoodyt has a point. No one is playing CloD and the lack of marketing for the game and community engagement by the devs doesn‘t help. How often have I answered people who did not have a clue about what they were talking about just to hear „oh, that‘s CloD? Gotta give that a try“.

 

If you can‘t churn out content as fast as people expect (this goes back all the way to pre-Blitz at which after a few years people were asking what now because BoB was getting tiring), for whatever reason like I said, then even more engagement with the community is needed. Otherwise people will go away. Like they have and are just watching from the sidelines waiting to see what happens.

So yeah, Iet‘s keep cheering TFS for what they accomplish, the devs need it to keep working and bring us what we want.
But shutting down those who dare say anything negative about the way things get done will just turn everyone else away.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by 9./JG52_J-HAT

[Dagwoodyt]

41 minutes ago, OBT-Lionel said:

Dagwoodyt,

 

I am one of the haters of Great battle.

At one point the developers took a direction that did not suit me.

I made it known on the forums.

When I realized they wouldn't change their minds, I uninstalled the game and stopped going to the "great battle" forums.

You are ignoring the substance of my post and giving irrelevant info to substitute for a response.  ?

14 minutes ago, DBS said:

 

Demands was perhaps too strong a word, but in my brief time here I get the distinct impression that a few people seem to think they should get more updates from TFS.

 

I can get the frustration, but I can't get how they can't recognise that this is a volunteer project. They are doing it because they love/appreciate the sim, and I'd imagine most if not all of them have other full time jobs.

 

My point is people are angry that they do not yet have new content, despite them not paying anything for it. Which is kind of mental to me, even before considering these are volunteers.

My point is that you are manufacturing "angry" people as straw men to rail against. ?

[OBT-Lionel]

Leifr,

 

I agree with you. Reddog was responsible for the best part of the Storm of War campaigns over the years.

[DBS]

15 minutes ago, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

What pisses me off about this whole situation, and I think this is what Reddog and Boo also feel, maybe even Dagwoodyt, is that CloD has a lot of potential as Motodve pointed and a lot of us know. 
But we don‘t get to enjoy all this potential because development pace is glacial, there are no constant development updates and the game is pretty much dead for whatever reason I won‘t be going into here (wouldn’t change anything).

 

Right now it’s „it‘s here when it’s here“ mode which might as well mean „I‘ll check it in a few years and in case there is something new I‘ll check it out“. Except there is a huge chance people will have moved on.

Like they have.

 

Look at this video Enigma posted an hour or so ago: 

 

Got 86 people to install 1946 and join an online campaign, because they wanted to enjoy big battles with AI. It‘s 1946 for God sakes.

CloD doesn’t even get a mention. People don‘t even mention CloD. It‘s either BoS or 1946.

People reenact BoB with Spit Vs, 109E-7 and a dozen planes in the air in BoS. Instead of doing it in CloD!

 

Why can’t we get 86 people to participate in such an online event? Why can‘ we get 86 people online at one point like we did 7 or so years ago? Why can‘t people just play CloD if they want to recreate the scenarios it has?
North Africa in BoS is something that has been requested. BoB also. Why not play CloD when it already does it and in a very good way?

 

I don’t bash TFS and I am glad they do what they do, because if not CloD would have been dead. I tried to get on with BoS and DCS and still play them, but CloD is still my favorite and I came back to it in a heartbeat when Tobruk released, but I understand the frustration. The difference is only the way it‘s expressed. 

But like I‘ve said a few times, for whatever reason that may be, Dagwoodyt has a point. No one is playing CloD and the lack of marketing for the game and community engagement by the devs doesn‘t help. How often have I answered people who did not have a clue about what they were talking about just to hear „oh, that‘s CloD? Gotta give that a try“.

 

If you can‘t churn out content as fast as people expect (this goes back all the way to pre-Blitz at which after a few years people were asking what now because BoB was getting tiring). For whatever reason like I said, then even more engagement with the community is needed. Otherwise people will go away. Like they have and are just watching from the sidelines waiting to see what happens.

So yeah, Iet‘s keep cheering TFS for what they accomplish, the devs need it to keep working and bring us what we want.
But shutting down those who dare say anything negative about the way things get done will just turn everyone else away.

 

 

 

Good points, well made.

 

I can definitely recognise that a lack of PR is potentially affecting player numbers. 

 

I'm just happy the game is where it is now and not where it was in 2011/12.

 

 

[BladeMeister]

Again, stop speculating, stop insulting TFS, get off your asses and Volunteer for TFS. Put in the free work, invest the hours from your free time and speed things up. I will appliad you if you do. The Sim is available now and quite solid for online play. CLOD is ready to have it's   servers filled. Promote it yourself, fill the servers, have a glorious time online improving the popularity of CLOD/DWT, but stop insulting TFS with mismanagement, glacial update progress and speculation of the servivability of CLOD. What do you 3 not understand concerning the statement that, 'if not for TFS, CLOD would not have had any updated or corrective development period' most likely. As to complaining about the timing of release of the FREE upcoming update, you don't have a leg to stand on. You have received what you paid for, it works even with bugs, longstanding or not, so no one has any ground to stand on if attempting to complain about what TFS is working on now, but,.......

you 3 probably still will, and I will continue to call each of you out on your baseless claims.

 

S!Blade<><

[DBS]

32 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

My point is that you are manufacturing "angry" people as straw men to rail against. ?

 

I'm not railing against anyone or anything. My point is that people are criticising a group of volunteers for not adhering to their own expectations/wishes.

 

Besides that, the main criticisms seem to be coming from former volunteers/members of TF... I'm not really inclined to listen to butthurt former "employees"

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

19 minutes ago, DBS said:

 

I'm not railing against anyone or anything. My point is that people are criticising a group of volunteers for not adhering to their own expectations/wishes.

 

Besides that, the main criticisms seem to be coming from former volunteers/members of TF... I'm not really inclined to listen to butthurt former "employees"

 

 

The praise and/or "criticism" that counts is reflected in game stats and forum activity aside from these repetitive combat threads. 

[No.54_Reddog]

I wondered what that massive whoosh was earlier, and then it happened again. Seems to happen every time something goes over a certain threadposters head. Most puzzling coincidence.

 

1 hour ago, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

Except there is a huge chance people will have moved on.

Like they have.

 

Look at this video Enigma posted an hour or so ago: 

 

 

You mean the same enigma who posted that the GUI was a bit crap and could be better and was predictably torn a new one not that long ago? I can't imagine why he might move on from CLOD.

[Mysticpuma]

I hope from my initial reply it can be seen I am positive about CloD and admire it greatly. 

 

I am not about to start knocking the team, we all know the update will arrive at some point, it is what it is. 

 

Blademeister, just a quick point, as you obviously don't know. 

There were many members from the Storm of War server and Air Combat Group, including Reddog, who were part of Team Fusion. They were very active, had some great ideas, input and work ethics, however they were unable to progress their work (which would/could) have been amazing and influential for swathes of online and offline players) due to internal politics. 

This left them sitting there, twiddling their thumbs and yet chomping at the bit to help. 

 

I hope that helps put in place at least some understanding that, Reddog has walked in those shoes, he has been part of the team, but when he tried to help he and other SoW/ACG members were given no help, they were just seen as an irritation and unimportant, so now they can sit on the sidelines looking in, with an excellent working knowledge of what issues there are, and in a place to offer commentary with insight. 

 

My feelings on community interaction and updates are well known, not going over that again. 

 

I created a thread in these forums to see how many people still pop in for 'updates/news'. Less than 3 full pages of replies. Is it apathy or the thousands of players we once had moving on because there is nothing to see? That's why I feel interaction is important, it just shows the team are active. No news isn't good news in game development..... it's no news! 

 

 

Anyway, just read my initial reply, that's where I stand, but I felt the need to add context to the constant calling out of Reddog. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Mysticpuma

[DD_Arthur]

7 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

 internal politics. 

 

I am lol.  

[Buzzsaw]

15 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

There were many members from the Storm of War server and Air Combat Group, including Reddog, who were part of Team Fusion. They were very active, had some great ideas, input and work ethics, however they were unable to progress their work (which would/could) have been amazing and influential for swathes of online and offline players) due to internal politics.

Very few people have been removed from Team Fusion... in fact three as far as I can remember.  (out of total membership over the years in the hundreds)

 

Back at the time TF was an amateur group, Reddog was removed by the former Admin of the ATAG forum because he requested several times the refuel and re-arm mod for ATAG's servers be made available to the public.  (and SoW)  That mod was created not by TF but by a member of ATAG for ATAG's server and ATAG members didn't feel it was incumbent on them to share it.  The decision had nothing to do with TF... at the time TF was living on ATAG's generosity.... ATAG hosted us on their website and server... who was allowed on that website and server was up to ATAG.

 

Refuel and Re-Arm has since been released to the public after TF and 1C came to their agreement... decision made by the originator of the mod to allow it to be a part of the BLITZ update of the original game.  TF now owns the ATAG website and the former admin is no longer with ATAG.

 

Other TF members who have been removed, only had that happen after the unanimous vote of the entire rest of the membership of TF.  A few others had their membership cancelled because they were not willing to sign the Member agreement by which they agreed to allow 1C to publish their work, (1C can't use their work unless they have legal agreement from the creator) and wouldn't agree to the Revenue sharing system among the group members.  (if we don't have agreement ahead of time for members to abide by a sharing system, then after a game is published, a creator could claim any amount of compensation or revenue share)

 

Many other members of TF have come and gone, but in those cases it was a function of them simply not having the time to contribute anymore.  A few quit in TF's modding days because they were frustrated in not getting access to the source code... something we didn't have at the time.  Currently anyone who gets access has to be cleared through Fulqrum.

 

TF is always willing to look at bringing in new members... we have just brought one in last month... added to the Map Team.  Several months before that, we brought in a new 3D modeler who started with a TF 6.0 vehicle and is now working on an aircraft.

 

Anyone who is skilled in 3D modeling Graphics with either Blender or 3dsMax, (no other programs are compatible with the game's 3D object import code) or who is a knowledgeable programmer with C#, C++ and other common languages in their resume are welcome to apply to join TF.  Those who are very experienced and knowledgeable with the game's FULL MISSION BUILDER can also help us... either with building campaigns, (knowledge of C# an asset) or map work. (once the 3D bumpmap is built, creation of road systems, bridges and airfields can be done by those who do not have high level code experience) At this point we have enough aircraft skinners and graphics artists who work with Photoshop.

 

We cannot teach inexperienced users of 3D modeling programs to become professionals... we tried that in the past, but the department head of our 3D modeling group was spending more time instructing them than dealing with his own work... and not seeing much in the way of positive results.  If you are reasonably competent with Blender or 3dsMax, then you can start with smaller models like buildings, vehicles or tanks and progress up to aircraft if you show promise... but while we can give you feedback, we can't hold your hand all the way or act as an instructor.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

@Buzzsaw this should be posted to the four corners of the internet so anyone with the matching skills and willingness could apply. They need to know about it though.

 

On subreddits (hell, post it on hoggit and even with 90% chance of a shitstorm even if you get a couple talented coders that will be worth it) and discords from all famous flightsim content creators (Grownling Sidewinder, Enigma etc.), these dudes have thousands of people in their communities.

 

 

17 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

You mean the same enigma who posted that the GUI was a bit crap and could be better and was predictably torn a new one not that long ago? I can't imagine why he might move on from CLOD.

 Lol, way to go I guess? 

[BladeMeister]

Thanks MP for yours and I assume Reddog's side of the story. Thanks Buzzsaw for your side of the story. This is interesting and very informative as to the negative posts from Reddog. My first reaction, before Buzzsaw made his most recent post was, even though a person worked with TF or TFS at one time and was terminated, quit or left for some other reason, does not give them the right to call out TFS for mismanagement, running off customers, not delivering updates on 'subject to change' promised dates or not posting PR on a community expected timeframe. 

   Now, after reading Buzzsaw's reply, my reaction is more informed. It seems Reddog has a personal axe to grind since he didn't get his way while being a member of TF. It's time to move on, the past is the past. Attacking TFS now because of something which happened years ago and didn't turn out well in your opinion is not helping to,

A. Pressure TFS to change management, work faster & release updates on a schedule or fix bugs which you personally concider important and longstanding.

and

B. it is not influencing TFS to post PR on a regular basis and have these posts contain what you consider relative, important and to a level of detail which you approve of.  In fact, it is doing the exact opposite seeing as we have even less TFS shared PR now then we ever have had. 

    I have always believed, and still do believethat the CLOD engine, which Oleg's Team created, has a HUGE untapped potential. Through all of these years, and yes development is painfully slow at times it seems, I have always been thankful that TF / TFS has continued development to unlock the potential that CLOD/DWT has. Otherwise we wouldn't be where we are now, flying an upgraded BOB with the added plus of being offered the DWT theater as DLC. In fact, CLOD might be a distant memory of a once upon a time 'Oh so promising of a project', which is no longer used by anyone.

TFS is not perfect, there are longstanding bugs which negatively affect CLOD/DWT(as there are with GBS & DCS, OFF, WOTR, FC 1&2,TC and ROF, don't get me started), but CLOD/DWT is a working functional software product which TFS can be proud of.

The UI still needs work. Please TFS give us an easy to use load out interface for SP.  ?

The AI still needs work. Please TFS fix the insane roll rate of some of the AI routines and the crazy quirky maneuvering when I am in close proximity on the AI's 6.

Please give us some more regular PR.

AND PLEASE HURRY UP WITH THE FREE UPDATE! I WANT IT BADLY!!! (for illustrative purposes only, don't ban me)

The point is, I will go out on a limb here, I assume that each person on this Forum has some want or please fix this on there mind and it is fine to have that, but trying to hold that over TFS's head to force their hand does no one any good at all. Not to mention TFS has never succumbed to,at least in my observation, this Forum pressure mentality. If anything they just retreat back into the shadows and keep working and moving CLOD/DWT forward towards their goals. We can cut our own nose off to spite our face by beating TFS up on the Forums, and they will offer close to nothing PR wise, or we can enjoy what CLOD/DWT has to offer now and have constructive conversations on these Forums. What's the old saying, you can attract more bees with honey than you can vinegar.(yes I am dating myself with that one, ? It seems to me that TFS may just be leaving the interactivity level from them to the Forum in our hands. Constructive Forum posts and conversations, more interactivity maybe? Negative complaining post, less activity? That's just a guess by me. 

The last thing I would call out as negative and possibly keeping TFS in the shadows on the Forums is speculation. What if, this might happen, this will probably happen. I don't care what kind of experience, expertise or results one has in their past dealings in the field of software development, team management and product sales it does not 100% apply to TFS or CLOD/DWT. TFS is in a unique situation with a unique Team and under a unique contract which seems to rarely be undertaken in combat fight sim development, not to mention with a basically volunteer Team doing the development work. Speculation is useless in promoting what can or will happen in this situation. Like it or not, TFS & 1C are in control. If they Succeed, Awesome! if they F it up then that is on them. No amount of personal axe grinding, hurt feelings or speculation will change that. Positive ideas shared here, encouraging healthy posts and debates/conversations could possibly input to TFS's decision making development a minisquaul amount. One thing is for sure, the TFS Team is going to do what it decides and what 1C thinks is the best way forward regardless of what any Forum Community communicates. CLOD/DWT is what it is and it is what we make it here on the Forums. Positive? Negative? It's the Communities choice, but whichever the Community chooses, there is only one choice that carries much of a future.

 

S!Blade

Edited October 29, 2022 by BladeMeister