P-47 operating tactics for Normandy?

[Voyager]

Just getting back into things after a long break, and finding I doth sucketh much at the moment. Trying to figure out the right operational tactics to be using with the P-47 in the current Battle of Normandy scenarios. 

 

What I'm seeing right now (P-47D-22 with racks) is at max continuous 42" at 2550 RPM it seems to do about 300 mph IAS, and all out (Wep, 64", 2700rpm) gets me about 350mph IAS. That seems to be a good clip slower than the axis fighters at the altitudes these missions. 

 

Wondering what tactics I should be using here? Thinking maybe climb to about 5000ft above the target altitude, close on 42" then drive in and use all-out to get a speed advantage, do one pass and disengage? 

 

I do seem to be having trouble locating the enemy aircraft as well. Currently running full real, but debating if I should turn on improved visibility while I'm getting the hang of things. Do not want to use map icons, though, because then I'll just be watching the map. 

 

Thoughts? 

 

Harry Voyager

[RyanR]

I found that I tried to "go in" fairly high as I crossed the coast, that gives you plenty headroom to go nose-down if you get intercepted. Once you drop your ordinance, I'd always climb to at least 10K should I run into interceptors. 190A-8's are not too bad to tangle with up there. The 109's have a number of advantages over the jug. With 109's, you need to know when it's time to "Get out of Dodge!"

 

I'd been setting convergence to 300M on the Allied fighters. The .50's are all about kinetics, and hit hard at 300m.

 

-Ryan

[=621=Samikatz]

You might find it prudent to keep your canopy open if you're struggling to spot. Slam it shut when you're about to do an attack or get into a fight, of course

[MAJ_stug41]

The advantage of the p47 is that it consistently maintains maximum power until a much greater altitude than other aircraft, so the higher you can fight, the better off you are. I don't know if the missions you are doing allow that though.

[Voyager]

@=621=Samikatz I think it's more I keep sticking my head through the canopy in VR. Not sure if I'm not centered up right, but feels very small compared to the WWI fighters and the P-47D-28.

 

@stug41 Honestly not sure. I'm trying adding some altitude on the approach. This last run we couldn't find the bombers,a gaggle of Spitfires mixed it up with the escorting fighters and I got lost in a cloud so that one was a complete bust, but I didn't get shot down, so sort of improvement? 

[354thFG_Rails]

Are you the flight lead or just following?

[Guster]

There's a very nice video on YT explaining how to manage the engine. Dunno if it's outdated now, but it might be worth a shot.

 

And yes, as already stated, stay high, stay fast, and see if you can hose'em with all them 50s. A good pass should at least make a 109 or 190 unable to catch up with you when you zoom away.

[354thFG_Rails]

A nice interview to watch. At one point he talks about the tactics they used and how they changed them. I’ve been reading a book as well about a fighter bomber pilot with the 86th FG in italy and how they changed they’re tactics for bombing compared to the A-36’s they were flying before they switched to the P-47. I’m not sure if you’re flying single player or multiplayer. If your SP and not leading a flight I’m not sure how disciplined you want to be but I’ve found in testing the engine timers you can run without 150 octane at 52” and 2550 rpm for about 30-35 mins before the engine pops. This will help you stay fast for longer in an area of operations. If you have 150 octane you can do about 45 mins at 52” 2700 rpm. If you plan on staying low try to at least have about 6,000 feet before you run in on a target. And stay fast, the P-47 bleeds energy quick if you start trying to turn hard. 

[Voyager]

3 hours ago, 86th_Rails said:

A nice interview to watch. At one point he talks about the tactics they used and how they changed them. I’ve been reading a book as well about a fighter bomber pilot with the 86th FG in italy and how they changed they’re tactics for bombing compared to the A-36’s they were flying before they switched to the P-47. I’m not sure if you’re flying single player or multiplayer. If your SP and not leading a flight I’m not sure how disciplined you want to be but I’ve found in testing the engine timers you can run without 150 octane at 52” and 2550 rpm for about 30-35 mins before the engine pops. This will help you stay fast for longer in an area of operations. If you have 150 octane you can do about 45 mins at 52” 2700 rpm. If you plan on staying low try to at least have about 6,000 feet before you run in on a target. And stay fast, the P-47 bleeds energy quick if you start trying to turn hard. 

Don't remember if I've watched that before or not. Definitely worth another watch regardless.

 

I've done the 52" thing before, but how much speed does that really get over the 300 IAS at 42"? And is that really worth giving up the 350mph ias dash speed? 

 

It just seems like at low altitudes, even when running boots tricks like that you're still sufficiently slower than the 190/109s that its not that useful? 

[EAF19_Marsh]

Fly a Mustang instead?

[Supercharger]

11 hours ago, Voyager said:

 

It just seems like at low altitudes, even when running boots tricks like that you're still sufficiently slower than the 190/109s that its not that useful? 

I prefer to fly with 150 octane fuel only. You can run 2700RPM @ 64" without water for 15 minutes. This will give you some extra speed, but be careful and have a close look to the temperatures especially at this "summer" map. 

[Voyager]

7 hours ago, Supercharger said:

I prefer to fly with 150 octane fuel only. You can run 2700RPM @ 64" without water for 15 minutes. This will give you some extra speed, but be careful and have a close look to the temperatures especially at this "summer" map. 

 

When did 150 octane hit the field for the 8th Air Force? I'm trying to use realistic configs, like always having the racks on, and avoiding hardware that wasn't available early. 

 

I gather the 9th Air Force never even used it. 

[Supercharger]

11 hours ago, Voyager said:

When did 150 octane hit the field for the 8th Air Force?

Sorry, I didn't consider that...... 

[357th_KW]

11 hours ago, Voyager said:

 

When did 150 octane hit the field for the 8th Air Force? I'm trying to use realistic configs, like always having the racks on, and avoiding hardware that wasn't available early. 

 

I gather the 9th Air Force never even used it. 

Late June 1944 for the 8th, and you’re correct regarding the 9th.

[Voyager]

23 minutes ago, 357th_KW said:

Late June 1944 for the 8th, and you’re correct regarding the 9th.

So by D-Day the 8th would have already been using it exclusively? 

[357th_KW]

10 minutes ago, Voyager said:

So by D-Day the 8th would have already been using it exclusively? 

Exact dates are hard to pin down, but this is probably the best breakdown you’ll find: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/150-grade-fuel.html

 

It seems the decision was made to switch 8th FC to 150 at the end of May, and the fuel was delivered sometime in mid June, and it was definitely in service in July.

[Voyager]

Ok, so I'm thinking for the pre-invasion missions it's probably not widely available, but once they're established it probably is. 

 

Thank you. That gives me mod ranges to work with. 

 

Now to just get back to a point where I can point the plane where I want it. Managed to accidentally force an over shoot of a 109G-14 but instead of being able to get the nose up and get a shot in, I managed to pancake the thing into the trees ?

 

I should probably go do some aerial manuvering routines again to get my head around the plane again. 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Voyager

[354thFG_Rails]

On 10/19/2022 at 7:22 PM, Voyager said:

Don't remember if I've watched that before or not. Definitely worth another watch regardless.

 

I've done the 52" thing before, but how much speed does that really get over the 300 IAS at 42"? And is that really worth giving up the 350mph ias dash speed? 

 

It just seems like at low altitudes, even when running boots tricks like that you're still sufficiently slower than the 190/109s that its not that useful? 

Any 109 running mw50 will be faster than you and I’m not sure if the a5, a6 are faster or not. I assume they are. A8 definitely is without 150 fuel. But that being said you can still out turn 190’s fairly easily. 109’s will give you more trouble but if they don’t have mw50 you have a decent speed advantage. Running 52” and 2550 will get you a bit over 300 indicated. It isn’t substantial but it helps will maintaining speed in an area. I think the big problem is that the ai does not use the jugs strengths at all. Preferring to turn over staying fast and dragging out bandits. I do find if you can act quick and get the upper hand in a fight your ai wingman usually fair well, but you have to do most of the heavy lifting. Also in turns out in a touch of flaps 10-15% which is like 5-10 degrees will give a you a bit of lift without slowing you down to much. 

[Voyager]

@86th_Rails Yeah, the flaps are pretty strong, though I've been trying to avoid getting in that habbit. The sim isn't able to model it but apparently the hydraulic balancing mechanism never really worked, so pretty much all P-47's has their flaps drop at different times and rates. 

 

Turns out that's why all the period manuals tell new pilots to only drop the flaps on final. 

[Gort]

On 10/18/2022 at 9:18 AM, Voyager said:

…What I'm seeing right now (P-47D-22 with racks) is at max continuous 42" at 2550 RPM it seems to do about 300 mph IAS, and all out (Wep, 64", 2700rpm) gets me about 350mph IAS. That seems to be a good clip slower than the axis fighters at the altitudes these missions…

 

Thoughts? 

 

Harry Voyager

 

What altitude are you referencing?

[Voyager]

2 hours ago, Gort said:

 

What altitude are you referencing?

That was at sea level, but from what I've seen it maintains IAS at a given manifold pressure up to its critical altitude. Which in the case of that 42" is something like 30,000ft. But we never do anything that high, so I'm expecting most engagements are going to be in the 5-15kft range, or lower.