Game version 5.002 discussion: Churchill IV, Tactical Codes, New Propellers, DVD for everything.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I've been holding back on commenting on the new prop graphics, but I can no longer restrain myself.  This is not how we see props with our eyes in the real world.

What has been recently done is just mimicking a cinematic shutter effect, it has no place in a simulation.  It's just a fop to people that have never seen props in the real world and think they should look like this because that's what they see in film clips.

 

People need to get away from their computers once in a while, and go see aircraft in the real world.  Go to an airshow, see, listen to, and experience the real deal.  You will be glad you did.

[Rjel]

I agree with what you’re saying but when I’m watching a recorded flight in the sim, in my mind I am watching a video or a filmed event. I don’t notice the prop effect much while actually flying the mission. I have enjoyed the effect so far and personally would hate to see it removed completely. 

[SCG_motoadve]

50 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I've been holding back on commenting on the new prop graphics, but I can no longer restrain myself.  This is not how we see props with our eyes in the real world.

What has been recently done is just mimicking a cinematic shutter effect, it has no place in a simulation.  It's just a fop to people that have never seen props in the real world and think they should look like this because that's what they see in film clips.

 

People need to get away from their computers once in a while, and go see aircraft in the real world.  Go to an airshow, see, listen to, and experience the real deal.  You will be glad you did.

I have been telling this to the developers for a few years now, they prefer to make it look unrealistic, which is more work than making it the realistic way it looks, you see no prop effect at all from inside the plane 99% of the time.

[CountZero]

17 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

I have been telling this to the developers for a few years now, they prefer to make it look unrealistic, which is more work than making it the realistic way it looks, you see no prop effect at all from inside the plane 99% of the time.

But when i look at YT videos

[TP_Silk]

On 10/12/2022 at 12:55 PM, Regingrave said:

Unfortunately no, in that case it won't work correctly with the chevrons: you'll get «<1» on the one side and «1<» on the other, because they have to be mirrored. But it's not a big trouble, the maximum size of the group in the game is 9 planes.

 

But in reality Staffeln were composed of up to around 16 aircraft

[Art-J]

@BlitzPig_EL I'd say there's not much to comment, because there's no definitive "right" or "wrong" solution. I think most, if not all people here have a basic understanding of how props look in naked eye view vs in videos, after all, it's been a subject of discussions since 1946 (and different implementations in its various modpacks). In the end It's just a question of preferences - some prefer natural look, some prefer cinematic. Devs were pretty honest about the latter being their goal, so that's what we've got. It's still much more subtle compromise compared to what we had in Janes WWII Fighters for example.

[dburne]

I have no problem with how a spinning prop in the game is visualized myself as long as it does not get too crazy. Imho these are small things, a least when it comes to me and my enjoyment of the game. Never been a rivet counter either so there is that.

[BladeMeister]

Maybe you would like to go back to this? I surely would not! I am SO THANKFUL that 1C redid the prop animation I can hardly express it in words. The only possible better solution might be to put a switch in the in game settings and let people turn it completely off if they really don't like it.

I say Thank You 1C for the new prop animations!!!! YEA!!!!

 

S!Blade<><

 

[jollyjack]

I use alt-F2 a lot with my own fixcamera settings, as non VR user. I would really prefer to switch it off totally ... even if a mod is needed.

[Trooper117]

I'm not really bothered one way or another about prop animations in any combat flight sim game I play... I'm fully focused on flying the mission and all that entails.

Watching the sky, checking for E/A, navigating, checking instruments, if I'm not leading, staying in formation etc, etc...  

[Skeeter_SX210]

I'm having an issue with the p47 flight lead taxing on Normandy.

[KevPBur]

16 hours ago, Skeeter_SX210 said:

I'm having an issue with the p47 flight lead taxing on Normandy.

 

I had similar at Ford in a P51B career and posted in Technical Issues sub forum > Quick mission, campaign and single missions post and it was resolved in the next update.

I believe it will be the airfield rather than the plane so make sure you include the airfield too

[hsthhsth]

I did not have the time to test the latest update 5.002 before so this is maybe a late reaction.

Since the update I cannot get more then 50 fps, VR or 2D does not make a difference. Ultra or low settings, all options low or off, no difference.

Tried different versions of NVidia drivers, no difference.

Even did a completely new install of sim, no difference.

 

Unigine Heaven that I always use to check after new gpu driver install shows normal fps (>310). DCS also shows normal fps.

 

I really don't know what else to check.

Edited November 17, 2022 by hsthhsth
Problem (finally) solved.

[Gort]

On 11/1/2022 at 6:30 AM, BlitzPig_EL said:

I've been holding back on commenting on the new prop graphics, but I can no longer restrain myself.  This is not how we see props with our eyes in the real world.

What has been recently done is just mimicking a cinematic shutter effect, it has no place in a simulation.  It's just a fop to people that have never seen props in the real world and think they should look like this because that's what they see in film clips.

 

People need to get away from their computers once in a while, and go see aircraft in the real world.  Go to an airshow, see, listen to, and experience the real deal.  You will be glad you did.

 

I mentioned this earlier in the thread as well. While I respect the effort and time required to code the prop effects, it’s not realistic and annoying to a RL pilot, or anyone who pays attention while watching an aircraft from the ground. It’s almost as grating as those cockpit phone videos where the rolling shutter creates a Venetian blind effect on propellers.

 

It would take a resources to do it, but an elegant solution would to be to use the “new prop effects” only during replays, and code the in cockpit view props of all aircraft to be a dark disk that varies in transparency with rpm for most situations.

The only place you see the “new prop effects” in RL is when looking at a spinning prop at night with a metallic vapor light in the background that pulses at 120hz. It’s a cheap way of calibrating your cockpit prop or if using a fixed pitch propellor, engine tachometer.

 

Definitely reveals the differences in expectations between the common sim buzzwords concerning “realism”, “immersion” and “cinematics”. 

[SCG_motoadve]

10 minutes ago, Gort said:

 

I mentioned this earlier in the thread as well. While I respect the effort and time required to code the prop effects, it’s not realistic and annoying to a RL pilot, or anyone who pays attention while watching an aircraft from the ground. It’s almost as grating as those cockpit phone videos where the rolling shutter creates a Venetian blind effect on propellers.

 

It would take a resources to do it, but an elegant solution would to be to use the “new prop effects” only during replays, and code the in cockpit view props of all aircraft to be a dark disk that varies in transparency with rpm for most situations.

The only place you see the “new prop effects” in RL is when looking at a spinning prop at night with a metallic vapor light in the background that pulses at 120hz. It’s a cheap way of calibrating your cockpit prop or if using a fixed pitch propellor, engine tachometer.

 

Definitely reveals the differences in expectations between the common sim buzzwords concerning “realism”, “immersion” and “cinematics”. 

Not only takes work to make it unrealistic like it is, it also costs FPS.

For VR we used to have a Lefunetste Mod ,where you remove the prop effect, and it helped with FPS, but according to a few guys it was a cheat, and it was removed.

[Lusekofte]

I am no longer bothered by it. Because the glass disk we had before was so terrible that what we got now is a relief 

[Badniouze]

Is it possible to play off line without last  update because my partition begin to be full..!!!! 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Badniouze

[CountZero]

40 minutes ago, Badniouze said:

Is it possible to play off line without last  update because my partition begin to be full..!!!! 

Didnt try, but i think you would have to avoid starting game from lancher.exe, and start only from Il-2.exe in your C:\IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\bin\game folder.

 

To free up space check in your C:\IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\updates folder, remove old updates if they are there, by removeing folder that is named like date (for expl like: 22-10-12) and leve other files. Maybe you have few 10s of Gbs there that didnt get removed from previous updates

 

[Badniouze]

Thanks for the cues . I'll try it.. Cheers. 

 

[czech693]

On 10/31/2022 at 10:44 PM, czech693 said:

This is what I'm talking about.

 

https://imgur.com/a/oeGmCpp)

Just to be clear, I am talking about the low idle rpm props and not the prop disc at higher rpms.  Only occurs on FC aircraft and U-2 as they have idle rpms in the 400-500 rpm range.  The four blade in my video looks bad, but the two blade of an Albatros looks terrible.  You can increase the rpms to over 500 and it goes away, but it shouldn't be there in the first place.  Idle while in the air doesn't seem to flicker as the airspeed is keeping the rpms higher.

[301fsSeoyeon]

Pilot kill rates still absurdly high after return for one last try to play this sim. Dying from 1-6 20mm shell not atall reasonable, under 20gram of eplosive will not kill plane so easily and mg151\20 getting worse each update. Time for go, seeming this major issue never will be fixed despite much evidence and sevral member of community show it is indeed big issue, among other major issue :c
goodbye all, sim il2 just no fun whatsoever anymore, so i take permanant leave now from :c

Edited November 13, 2022 by UNACTIVEMakiko

[SCG_motoadve]

1 hour ago, UNACTIVEMakiko said:

Pilot kill rates still absurdly high after return for one last try to play this sim. Dying from 1-6 20mm shell not atall reasonable, under 20gram of eplosive will not kill plane so easily and mg151\20 getting worse each update. Time for go, seeming this major issue never will be fixed despite much evidence and sevral member of community show it is indeed big issue, among other major issue :c
goodbye all, sim il2 just no fun whatsoever anymore, so i take permanant leave now from :c

Yes feels very arcade,it ruins the sim totally, repeatedly a pilot kill with the first bullet.(you dont even hear bullets hitting your plane).It has even happened with bombers , its a joke.

It could happen IRL, yes but definitely not as common a recurrence as it is in the sim.

IRL many pilots specially German , were shot down multiple times,get shot down in the sim 10 times, how many are pilot kills?

Ruining the experience really, and it happens in MP and SP.

Edited November 13, 2022 by SCG_motoadve

[CountZero]

Avreadge player in sim is nore accurate in game, because he can easy practice, and last 2 years you learned to shoot at pilot area as it was quickest way to get kill because of bad AP ammo. And to that that they made pilot more vonerable by removing "health cheat" they had in game for long time, and that HE ammo can then kill you even if it hits few m from you in wing tips, its no suprise pk sky rocket.

26. Aircraft DM: the several years old ‘crew health cheat’ (they required four point-blank 7.62 bullets in the torso or two in the head to be killed) has been removed. Now their ability to sustain damage is much more close to reality.

[SCG_motoadve]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

Avreadge player in sim is nore accurate in game, because he can easy practice, and last 2 years you learned to shoot at pilot area as it was quickest way to get kill because of bad AP ammo. And to that that they made pilot more vonerable by removing "health cheat" they had in game for long time, and that HE ammo can then kill you even if it hits few m from you in wing tips, its no suprise pk sky rocket.

26. Aircraft DM: the several years old ‘crew health cheat’ (they required four point-blank 7.62 bullets in the torso or two in the head to be killed) has been removed. Now their ability to sustain damage is much more close to reality.

Yes its very easy to shoot when there is no wake turbulence, and planes are forgiving and feel lightweight.

I do fly real planes and a warbird trainer and do simulated combat ( which is an adrenaline rush and incredibly fun) wake turbulence makes everything a lot harder.

[MAJ_stug41]

28 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Yes its very easy to shoot when there is no wake turbulence, and planes are forgiving and feel lightweight.

I do fly real planes and a warbird trainer and do simulated combat ( which is an adrenaline rush and incredibly fun) wake turbulence makes everything a lot harder.

I vaguely remember either this or ROF having wake, at least in single player, many years ago. Wonder why it was taken away.

[CountZero]

41 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Yes its very easy to shoot when there is no wake turbulence, and planes are forgiving and feel lightweight.

I do fly real planes and a warbird trainer and do simulated combat ( which is an adrenaline rush and incredibly fun) wake turbulence makes everything a lot harder.

Yes its mutch easyer in game, and on top we can practice with no limits.

 

13 minutes ago, stug41 said:

I vaguely remember either this or ROF having wake, at least in single player, many years ago. Wonder why it was taken away.

Probably it would be to complex for MP to have it added to netcode calculations, new DM dont display DVD small guns damage as its to mutch for MP, imagine what would happend if wake of every airplane in 84 ppl server is added into it...

 

So to conclude in my opinion removing this "crew health cheat" that we had for years in game for a reason, is bad if other complex things dont get added.

[SCG_motoadve]

35 minutes ago, CountZero said:

So to conclude in my opinion removing this "crew health cheat" that we had for years in game for a reason, is bad if other complex things dont get added.

You nailed it, health cheat at least compensated this and made pilot kill numbers lower and not so common.

[301fsSeoyeon]

5 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Yes feels very arcade,it ruins the sim totally, repeatedly a pilot kill with the first bullet.(you dont even hear bullets hitting your plane).It has even happened with bombers , its a joke.

It could happen IRL, yes but definitely not as common a recurrence as it is in the sim.

IRL many pilots specially German , were shot down multiple times,get shot down in the sim 10 times, how many are pilot kills?

Ruining the experience really, and it happens in MP and SP.

Atleast i not gone mad, all fun is gone for allys when have such absurdly overpower 20mm german guns and such ease of death. There is no longer singel ounce of fun after last 2 updates. I not invest any more money or time for this cause i done. German side players simply enraged when mention this issues despite many us know of there reality. Be call names in game for notice this issues and frustrate by them is run it course. I hope next big sim ww2 will try more to be accurate and not trample us who spend immens money to buy all the content over the years :c

[Gort]

On 11/12/2022 at 8:36 AM, czech693 said:

Just to be clear, I am talking about the low idle rpm props and not the prop disc at higher rpms.  Only occurs on FC aircraft and U-2 as they have idle rpms in the 400-500 rpm range.  The four blade in my video looks bad, but the two blade of an Albatros looks terrible.  You can increase the rpms to over 500 and it goes away, but it shouldn't be there in the first place.  Idle while in the air doesn't seem to flicker as the airspeed is keeping the rpms higher.

 

That’s pretty bad. 

In the sim, I don’t really see the prop disk from the cockpit under most lighting and normal rpm settings. In my long experience, the dark prop disk is always visible, front or back with a clearly defined edge. Especially for black painted props. Might be more noticeable for pilots who have spent time in a real cockpit.

Sort of like the lens glare effects on so many sims. You’re eyes don’t show those camera aperture artifacts, but customers seem to love them.

 

On 11/5/2022 at 9:29 AM, 216th_Lusekofte said:

I am no longer bothered by it. Because the glass disk we had before was so terrible that what we got now is a relief 

 

Depends upon how the prop is painted and the lighting conditions. 

[301fsSeoyeon]

On 11/13/2022 at 10:15 PM, SCG_motoadve said:

Yes feels very arcade,it ruins the sim totally, repeatedly a pilot kill with the first bullet.(you dont even hear bullets hitting your plane).It has even happened with bombers , its a joke.

It could happen IRL, yes but definitely not as common a recurrence as it is in the sim.

IRL many pilots specially German , were shot down multiple times,get shot down in the sim 10 times, how many are pilot kills?

Ruining the experience really, and it happens in MP and SP.

i gave one more try, it feel ridiculos. Not atall fun or viable to fly, every singel burst wich hit me, kill me now