Pfalz D.XII elevator authority in a dive + rudder flutter

[BMA_Hellbender]

While doing G load testing in the Pfalz D.XII, I noticed that at over 270km/h in a dive you lose almost all elevator authority. This feels a lot like control surface compression present on WW2 planes at very high speeds. On other WW1 planes such as the S.E.5a and SPAD XIII there is no such loss of elevator authority at 250+ km/h.

 

The Pfalz D.XII is also the only WW1 that has rudder flutter when going over 200km/h in a dive.

 

Is all of this intentional?

 

Maybe @Han could comment on this.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

I'm not sure it matters because the wings were probably gone by then.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

They are among the delicate for certain.

[J2_Trupobaw]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:57 AM, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

While doing G load testing in the Pfalz D.XII, I noticed that at over 270km/h in a dive you lose almost all elevator authority.

[...]

Is all of this intentional?

 

Using elevator at this speed will result in wings ripped off, you need to quarter roll and pull out with rudder instead ? ; I guess it may be an intentional safety feature ?.

Edited October 9, 2022 by J2_Trupobaw

[Guest deleted@83466]

This is no new thing in D12 flight model, is it?  With the following disclaimer that I’ve never flown d12 in FC, only RoF, that was just one of those planes that was totally useless in most diving attacks, imo.

My most effective tactic was to wait for the bandit to be lower than a 45 degree elevation angle from me, and then just scream on in from a high angle that would wrench the other players neck off to see me, even with a TrackIR.  To do that, and not Vne, you obviously have to crab the airplane in, and then kick it out within about 300m for the firing pass.

 

But the D12 was way too “slick” for that, for lack of a better word.  No matter how much you crossed the controls, and tried to airbrake, the rise of the nose always made it problematic to keep guns on the target.
 

I hated it.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by SeaSerpent

[Zooropa_Fly]

I flew the DXII a lot in RoF, eventually.

Great shooter, but the lack of dive performance was always noticable - not to mention it turning into a giant, vibrating massaging machine after a minor over-rev or a couple of holes in the fabric. And the engine was a bit fragile.

 

These characteristics seem a bit odd for the Germans' fastest plane, effectively their SpadXIII.

But maybe it was like that - I never flew a real one !

It's been discussed a fair bit down the years, but I can't remember the devs ever commenting on being happy with it's FM, or otherwise.

 

Anyway, I soon figured out that shallow, sweeping attacks were probably best.

 

Naturally I used it primarily against 2-seaters and bombers.

Being a 10-pass kill merchant it wasn't much kop to me as a dogfighter.

Having said that, there was this dude in a Spad called 'Ice Age' who I shot down on WG once, I think from a DXII..

He was in the 90's at the time going for a 100 streak. You know - big target on his back !

I got the kill a few minutes after my spraying and praying, last minute of the map I think.

Unfortunately the Ice Man was flying under his 2nd account name, rats !

Then he went on to get one hundred and twenty something I think it was.

 

'I Fly Central' was probably the best master of the DXII I can remember from RoF.

He used to out-dogfight me when I was in a Camel. Very embarrassing.

And I remember Hotlead could be a bit of a menace in one too.. but he and his bro's used to beat poor folk up in DH2's, that's another story..

 

S!

 

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Zooropa_Fly

[No.23_Triggers]

Yeah, D.XII only seems to be able to do short, sharp dives as opposed to the big 1000m power-dives the XIII can do. After a short while the D.XII will pitch right up and out of the dive regardless of what controls you're inputting. Seems to be a bit of a unique phenomenon with the D.XII. IIRC, the D.III actually does the same thing, but you need to have some serious alt (and lose some control surfaces) to get it fast enough to find that out... 

[Guest deleted@83466]

It had a glass engine.  But it could glide like a sailplane.  But ditching the aircraft would inevitably result in flipping and dying, like every single time.  There was just a lot peculiar with that plane, and it sounds like there still is.

Edited October 11, 2022 by SeaSerpent